Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Options
13839414344411

Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    From what I understand it is now looking more and more likely that there may no longer be a single livery for all PSO operators within Dublin as Dublin Bus are pushing back somewhat in an attempt to protect their brand.

    It is believed that Dublin Bus may well be considering presenting their own ideas for a livery in the near future to stakeholders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    devnull wrote: »
    From what I understand it is now looking more and more likely that there may no longer be a single livery for all PSO operators within Dublin as Dublin Bus are pushing back somewhat in an attempt to protect their brand.

    It is believed that Dublin Bus may well be considering presenting their own ideas for a livery in the near future to stakeholders.

    :rolleyes:
    Hopefully the NTA stand up and tell them to go **** off and do what they're told


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    :rolleyes:
    Hopefully the NTA stand up and tell them to go **** off and do what they're told

    There is a bus parked up in the Wright factory in Northern Ireland for Dublin Bus that is wearing a totally different livery, a dark blue so this may well be the example that Dublin Bus aims to put forward to counter the NTA's own proposals.

    Realistically though if BusConnects is going to work and we are going to get a properly integrated system all the operators are going to have to start being simply that and leave the technical specification of the service to the NTA since nobody is going to benefit from turf wars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    :rolleyes:
    Hopefully the NTA stand up and tell them to go **** off and do what they're told

    Maybe Dublin Bus think that the new livery choices are gash? And are making a proposal?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Maybe Dublin Bus think that the new livery choices are gash? And are making a proposal?

    From what I have heard their proposal is for their own services featuring their own brand rather than being a counter proposal to the NTAs initial proposal for a one livery solution for all operators.

    What we really need is an operator neutral livery like in London, Warsaw and many other cities.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Any pics of the bus up in Wrights?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Any pics of the bus up in Wrights?

    One on the left:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/24571226668/in/dateposted/


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    I always liked that the Dublin flag/colours were at the rear of the bus of the current yellow livery

    So maybe just maybe...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    devnull wrote: »

    That's a very nice shade of blue - far nicer than any of the choices in the BusConnects survey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Maybe Dublin Bus think that the new livery choices are gash? And are making a proposal?

    Maybe they do think that, as many people no doubt do as well. That's not the point. It's no longer their job to worry about it and their self centred worry about their own brand rather than what's best for customers overall should no longer be acceptable.

    It's not like they even have a valuable brand to protect in any meaningful way...


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 24,480 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    devnull wrote: »
    There is a bus parked up in the Wright factory in Northern Ireland for Dublin Bus that is wearing a totally different livery, a dark blue so this may well be the example that Dublin Bus aims to put forward to counter the NTA's own proposals.

    Wait, why is that even a thing when NTA are speccing and buying all of the new buses?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Oh no, please.... it has to be generic livery.

    How can DB decide to use their own when others who get contracts have to use livery decided by NTA?

    Some people are brand loyal. That may be what DB are looking at. Well they have never had anyone else in the mix before now. Time for change.

    I agree that it should be like TFL London Bus. They all look the same so just hop on a bus.

    Have I got that right, or did I make any mistakes there in my assumptions!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭brokenarms


    I hope they do have a different colour. The company grew from it routes in Dublin. Massive foreign companies who just buy in to the Dublin market should not look the same. When ever go ahead are here 30 years, they can oppose it also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭markpb


    brokenarms wrote: »
    I hope they do have a different colour. The company grew from it routes in Dublin. Massive foreign companies who just buy in to the Dublin market should not look the same. When ever go ahead are here 30 years, they can oppose it also.

    Company first, customer last. The spirit of public service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Dublin Bus will do what it is told by the NTA. Contract has a clear requirement to participate in a single transport brand.

    If they want to loose more of there routes when the next tender comes up, fighting with the NTA is the way to go..


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    To add a little more flesh on my original post, the following is a excerpt from a speech made by Mr. Ultan Courtney, chairperson designate of Dublin Bus

    http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TTJ2017102500002?opendocument&highlight=Transport
    The Dublin Bus brand is our identifying mark for customers and a symbol of unity for our employees. It is a major component of Dublin Bus and an iconic brand, widely recognised throughout the greater Dublin area, GDA, and further afield. The brand is a notable part of the GDA and illustrates the unified mission of Dublin Bus of providing an effective public service with an enhanced customer experience that drives its purpose as a brand and an organisation. The company’s most recent independent tracker research illustrates that satisfaction with Dublin Bus as a brand is increasing continually among its customers. The continued growth in customer satisfaction and journeys is testament to the quality of the brand. The Dublin Bus brand unites employees internally under a common goal of serving our customers and underpins the company’s corporate social responsibility activity and community initiatives.
    The Senator asked a very interesting question about the NTA, buses and branding and so on. It is a very important question because it comes down to the whole idea of what kind of bus company we want in Dublin. Dublin Bus will be there for some considerable time regardless of what policy changes are made. The question always arises about the nature of it. The Dublin Bus brand is very important to us and we use it in all our marketing. People talk about livery but we never do. Instead we talk about branding, marketing and positioning. It is very important to us to protect that brand and it is very important it is there into the future. What happened in London is often cited.

    They had different operators but kept the red buses. My humble submission is that whatever changes happen, please keep the Dublin Bus colours. They are very important to the company, and are also a very valuable asset to the State. It is valued at €28 million and could go up over the next few years, depending on expansion, to €33 million.

    We are talking about the efficient use of assets. An asset of the State cannot just be given away. It is important to protect the brand, and one of the principal duties of the board is to protect the assets of the State and get the maximum value for them. Notwithstanding that, we have been engaged with the NTA. Dublin Bus has been driving this, because it has the expertise in branding. It set up a brand room, which everyone, including Ministers and officials from the Department, wanted to see, showing what a new branding concept for Dublin Bus, which would protect the brand and the value that it has, would look like, and presented the idea of a new, innovative and modern service. Dublin Bus is not afraid of change or of looking at branding, but it is going to protect its assets.

    If you didn't see the words Dublin Bus, you would think it is a private company talking about it's commercial interests rather than a public agency which was formed to ensure that the needs of the public come before such commercial interests.

    It's notable that they do not openly say they won't comply with branding, but there does seem to be some push back there which is looking at things wholly from the point of view of Dublin Bus rather than the bigger picture.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Oh no, please.... it has to be generic livery.

    Have you seen the generic livery candidates the NTA have put forward? :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Bambi wrote: »
    Have you seen the generic livery candidates the NTA have put forward? :eek:

    That's a minor point, the real point is to have all contractors using the same one. :D

    I think there was a survey or something for people's views on the proposed livery. I'd say the negative reaction might wake the NTA up. I think the deep blue in the Wright pic above is good, now add a splash of light blue somewhere and we have the Dubs colours. Could do worse!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    devnull wrote: »
    To add a little more flesh on my original post, the following is a excerpt from a speech made by Mr. Ultan Courtney, chairperson designate of Dublin Bus

    http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TTJ2017102500002?opendocument&highlight=Transport


    If you didn't see the words Dublin Bus, you would think it is a private company talking about it's commercial interests rather than a public agency which was formed to ensure that the needs of the public come before such commercial interests.

    It's notable that they do not openly say they won't comply with branding, but there does seem to be some push back there which is looking at things wholly from the point of view of Dublin Bus rather than the bigger picture.

    I could be wrong, but I thought the fleet is now an asset of the NTA not Dublin Bus. I really hope the NTA face them down big time.

    Fully in agreement with the highlighted paragraph above. Laughable, they have some neck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    markpb wrote: »
    Company first, customer last. The spirit of public service.

    What would you have? Customer first, company last?
    Would there be an allowance introduced to compensate us for this strange new philosophy? error...eerrrrrrorrrrrrrrrr....checking customer service database for references to such a concept:

    404: DATABASE NOT FOUND
    FATAL ERROR


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭john boye


    Whatever about the current arrangement but surely if DB win any of the future tenders then they'll just have to use whatever livery the NTA tells them to?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    markpb wrote: »
    Company first, customer last. The spirit of public service.

    The NTA being a model of the spirit of public service of course.

    They are putting the freezing customer waiting 30-45 minutes for a 9/13/15/27 etc right now first by trying to change the livery. Yes of course they are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    TFL allow individual bus operators display their own company logos on the red livery maybe the NTA could allow DB, BE or GA display their logos secondary to the NTA logos.

    Also back when First bus were in the London bus market they seemed to tailor the 'generic' red livery considerably I wonder will DB or GA try similar.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    TFL allow individual bus operators display their own company logos on the red livery maybe the NTA could allow DB, BE or GA display their logos secondary to the NTA logos

    The original proposals from the NTA were to allow an
    Operated by: <operator>

    Section on the side of the bus.
    Also back when First bus were in the London bus market they seemed to tailor the 'generic' red livery considerably I wonder will DB or GA try similar.

    Initially when private operators were involved in London services they were all allowed to tailor the red livery a little bit to their corporate image, Stagecoach, Metroline, Go-Ahead and National Express did exactly the same as First.

    However a good number of years ago now, TFL passed a resolution stopping this and requiring operators to only show the company logo and nothing else and all operators were required and did comply.

    Later on the central side of bus logo was mandated to become a TFL Roundels logo and the operators logo was forced to be moved to a less prominent place, generally above the doors and under or over the cab on the off-side.

    Like this:
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7009/6396651533_70b88e8acb_b.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I wonder will the NTA also be taking control of staff uniforms for the various different transport companies contracted to them. Apparently the were looking at generic uniforms for taxi drivers a number of years ago I don't if this is still the case but maybe they are planning something simiar for bus workers.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I wonder will the NTA also be taking control of staff uniforms for the various different transport companies contracted to them. Apparently the were looking at generic uniforms for taxi drivers a number of years ago I don't if this is still the case but maybe they are planning something simiar for bus workers.

    Personally I wouldn't support that - drivers should be dressed up in appropriate clothing but the details of it should be left to the operator since it has no bearing on the public.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    Personally I wouldn't support that - drivers should be dressed up in appropriate clothing but the details of it should be left to the operator since it has no bearing on the public.

    I'd agree with you generally about drivers and other staff however for this system to be effective I think the NTA need to take control of all controlling such as introducing an ibus style system and revenue protection. Have revenue protection officers employed by the NTA or through a subcontractor boarding in an NTA uniform board buses both DB and GA and Luas aswell.

    These could be made up of a mixture of new recruits and current Transdev revenue protection staff DB staff wouldn't be much use as they do not have full time revenue protection.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 Evil-1


    The Dublin Bus position on branding ignores the fact that the Transport For Ireland (TFI) brand is also a state asset and is also growing in value.


  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    They had different operators but kept the red buses. My humble submission is that whatever changes happen, please keep the Dublin Bus colours. They are very important to the company, and are also a very valuable asset to the State. It is valued at €28 million and could go up over the next few years, depending on expansion, to €33 million.
    This is ridiculous. How on earth can the Dublin bus colours have a financial value greater than the cost of paint?


    Dublin Bus cannot use the colours to expand into other markets. Dublin Bus cannot sell its colour scheme to anyone else. It cannot use its colours to gain market share from other modes. No one would confuse a 46A with a taxi if the bus arrived painted pink!

    A bit like charities, the branding and market efforts of Dublin Bus are squarely aimed at persuading policymakers and regulators that they need continuing large chunks of taxpayers' cash. They are nothing to do with attracting customers or building market share. It is rife in the semi-state sector. If Dublin Bus cared about the customer it would have functional map of its routes on its website.

    The path to a better bus service in Dublin is a very long one, but it is a path we are on. An essential part of this is unified branding and operators being judged on objective metrics for quality of service. The public wants a decent website for planning journeys, integration with other modes, and an on-time service.

    A bus service with a messy mix of colours is not the way to achieve this.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    If Dublin Bus's colour scheme is so important to its branding then why does it use its buses as moving advertising campaigns?

    2017_09210020-S.jpg
    I was upstairs on one of these a few years ago (branded as a 7UP bottle I think). They had a kind of green hatching all over the upper deck windows making it hard to see out. It made me slightly nauseous.

    As ever with Dublin Bus, the passenger experience put last.


Advertisement