BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

AlekSmart

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I will eat my hat if any of this ever happens. Other than re-branding and a few small things like a map on a bus stop .

Mmmm...yum yum....

https://itinerariesoftaste.sanpellegrino.com/how-we-were/carmen-miranda

What makes the Busconnects project decidely different from the many and varied grand-plans of the past,is the putting in place of FUNDING in advance of the announcement.

Most of the previous schemes tended to be launched in a blaze of publicity,only to slip off the radar after a few months and hit the buffers when the initial £9/19s/11d had been spent,and no more remained until the next financial year.

This time around,there is €750,000,000 in funding already voted on,in this years Budget specifically for Busconnects....that is unheard of,in Bus Service Planning terms in Dublin.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2017120600033?opendocument

The BusConnects programme, recently announced by the NTA, is a transformative investment package that will finance new and expanded bus routes and greatly improve bus access through and around the capital and I secured funding of over €750 million in the budget to progress the programme. My top priority over the next few years is to increase investment in public transport rapidly while also increasing public transport services for the greater Dublin area and around the country.

There are also other aspects to the bigger picture,whch have not been to the fore in previous plans,such as Greenhouse Gas emissions and specific Air Quality requirements for EU Capital Cities,all of which will cost Ireland far more than €750 mil if left unaddressed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-faces-fines-in-two-years-if-climate-targets-missed-varadkar-1.3345235

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-faces-fines-of-almost-2m-over-eu-court-ruling-1.3368526

https://www.stopclimatechaos.ie/news/2017/03/08/minister-brings-action-plan-on-climate-pollution-to-cabinet/

Adding these environmental issues into the mix,then factoring in the possibility of significant ongoing financial penalties,brings us to a situation whereby not taking action is no longer an option.

The greater issue is rapidly coming down to Irelands lack of previous action in the face of Worldwide ongoing changes,particularly in the area of Public Transports ability to achieve rapid improvements in Emissions Outputs when used to directly lead the change project,as in other European cities......now where is that Fruit Bowl ?

punisher5112

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I will eat my hat if any of this ever happens. Other than re-branding and a few small things like a map on a bus stop .

You do know we will all hold you to your word.....

Phil.x

Are the plans for brt now scrapped.
If so any links.

cgcsb

MGWR wrote: »

. Manufacturing of goods with value and agriculture are the most valuable.

Manufacturing and agriculture, in Dublin City Centre? Manufacturing left City Centres across the industrialised world in the 19th century. Indeed Manufacturing is mostly gone to Asia. The Irish economy is service based.

dfx-

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I will eat my hat if any of this ever happens. Other than re-branding and a few small things like a map on a bus stop .

Worse would be they get through some of it before ditching it a quarter or halfway through, coming across difficulty and going for the next bright shiny plan.

But bus shelters and bus stops, doors...key issues.

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

Worse would be they get through some of it before ditching it a quarter or halfway through, coming across difficulty and going for the next bright shiny plan.

But bus shelters and bus stops, doors...key issues.

I onder if the mods would consider making the main Jarret Walker blog a sticky,as it does give a significant insight into his thinking on the broader topic.

http://humantransit.org/

I's not at all suggesting that this guy represents a guru or deity in Public Transport terms,BUT I am impressed that he is confident enough in his work to lead with his name,rather than the heretofore norm of a Deloitte & Touche style,Big Corporate mega consultancy report.

http://humantransit.org/2017/06/dublin-imagine-a-better-bus-network-design.html

As a result, we think Dublin may be missing opportunities to encourage patronage within the greater City Centre – especially for spontaneous trips and tourism — because while buses are everywhere, it is simply too hard to figure out how to use them. As consultants we can attest to this, because our work requires learning bus systems very quickly.

Finally, the City Centre has so many buses running through it that buses are frequently obstructing each other.

Ain't that the truth !!

dfx-

The only major problem with the network is the artificial routes created by Network Direct. They need to be split back into their constituent parts with a respectable frequency.

The 16 needs to be helped out with another regular city service from the Airport.

This redrawing and connected spine thing on his blog is what you'd fear would happen. The network is not hard to figure out.

Dyr

dfx- wrote: »

Worse would be they get through some of it before ditching it a quarter or halfway through, coming across difficulty and going for the next bright shiny plan.

But bus shelters and bus stops, doors...key issues.

My fear would be they put in a transfer based system and it falls apart once the spotlight is off the project because the usual players will just go back to doing things their own way.

LeinsterDub

dfx- wrote: »

The only major problem with the network is the artificial routes created by Network Direct. They need to be split back into their constituent parts with a respectable frequency.

The 16 needs to be helped out with another regular city service from the Airport.

This redrawing and connected spine thing on his blog is what you'd fear would happen. The network is not hard to figure out.

Frequency is being killed by having so many routes meandering around every housing estate and by having roads were you have dozens of buses running down them but people have to wait for their own particular bus

dfx-

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Frequency is being killed by having so many routes meandering around every housing estate and by having roads were you have dozens of buses running down them but people have to wait for their own particular bus

Frequency is being killed by the cut in resources from Network Direct. The 51B/C was every 15-20 minutes all day and night, clockwork. The 13 is 20-30 minutes and up to 45-50 minutes for the last bus and is not reliable.

The routes untouched by Network Direct (though it was threatened to join them up) but that also wander around housing estates - 27B and 79/A for example, there are no chronic problems.

Stephen15

dfx- wrote: »

The only major problem with the network is the artificial routes created by Network Direct. They need to be split back into their constituent parts with a respectable frequency.

The 16 needs to be helped out with another regular city service from the Airport.

This redrawing and connected spine thing on his blog is what you'd fear would happen. The network is not hard to figure out.

Is that not provided by the 41?

The problem pre network direct was that lots of buses were left lying over the City centre on places like Aston Quay, Townsend Street, Hawkins Street, Mountjoy Sq., Lwr. Abbey Street and Eden Quay. Which now with Luas CC and the changes to the road layouts would no longer be practical.

LeinsterDub

dfx- wrote: »

Frequency is being killed by the cut in resources from Network Direct. The 51B/C was every 15-20 minutes all day and night, clockwork. The 13 is 20-30 minutes and up to 45-50 minutes for the last bus and is not reliable.

The routes untouched by Network Direct (though it was threatened to join them up) but that also wander around housing estates - 27B and 79/A for example, there are no chronic problems.

There are chronic issues with the entire network. It's not fit for purpose anymore

Bray Head

Can someone explain why so few buses use Gardinder St?

It is wide enough at most points to handle a bus lane in each direction. Dorset st>Gardiner St>Matt Talbot Bridge/Butt Bridge seems like a useful corridor from the north city to the Liffey that is underused at the moment. Obviously some re-priortisation at the lights would be needed at the north end with the junction at Dorset St.

I appreciate there isn't a very obvious path south of the river, but better use of the Gardiner st corridor is an obvious solution to the current mess on the OCS>O'Connell Bridge>College Green stretch at the moment.

AlekSmart

Bray Head wrote: »

Can someone explain why so few buses use Gardinder St?

It is wide enough at most points to handle a bus lane in each direction. Dorset st>Gardiner St>Matt Talbot Bridge/Butt Bridge seems like a useful corridor from the north city to the Liffey that is underused at the moment. Obviously some re-priortisation at the lights would be needed at the north end with the junction at Dorset St.

I appreciate there isn't a very obvious path south of the river, but better use of the Gardiner st corridor is an obvious solution to the current mess on the OCS>O'Connell Bridge>College Green stretch at the moment.

+100%

Removing some of the current on-street parking north of the Talbot St junction would allow a far better throughput of buses through the junction.

However,I would suspect none of DCC's professional planners would have much familiarity with such stuff,when one sees the codology on view every St Patricks Day,when an entire skipfull of Bus & Coach routes attempt to force a path through the same junction...with unrestriced car parking maintained all the way Northbound from the junction.

In DCC's world,such stuff is considered desireable.....:(

MGWR

Bray Head wrote: »

Can someone explain why so few buses use Gardinder St?

Nobody wants to go to Gardiner Street. They want to go to O'Connell Street. Even the Swords buses were switched from running bi-directionally on Gardiner Street to unidirectionally (outbound), coming inbound on O'Connell Street.

And O'Connell Street would not be the bottleneck it is if it were not narrowed from eight lanes to four, if the Luas were not on the street in the city centre but instead underground, if North Frederick Street were still unidirectional southbound...the list is endless.

Hurrache

Reducing traffic lanes on O'Connell Street was a good move.

devnull

Report is now out from Jarrett Walker
https://busconnects.ie/media/1228/busconnects-dublin-network-redesign-summary.pdf

devnull

Key Points

Why are we redesigning the network?
- The city is growing and we need to plan the bus network to cater for that growth.
- The current bus network is complex which makes it hard to remember and use easily.
- There are few orbital routes, making it hard to move around the outer parts of the city.
- There are many overlapping routes, where the bus services are not evenly spaced.
- There is a need to better integrate our networks of bus, trams and trains.

How will you make the network better?
- Increase the overall amount of bus services.
- Provide new and frequent orbital services connecting more outer parts of the city together.
- Simplify the bus services on the key radial into “spines” where all buses will operate under a
common letter system and buses will run very frequently and be more evenly spaced.
- Increase the number of routes where buses will come every 15 minutes or less all day.

Will we have more or less bus services?
The redesigned bus network means an increase in bus services by over one quarter (27%), with much of that increase delivering additional “all-day” services. So there will be substantially more bus services operating across the Dublin region following the network redesign.

What are the benefits of the proposed new network?
Overall the proposed new network of bus services will enable more people to travel to more places more easily. Some of the specific outcomes will be:

- Nearly one million Dublin-area residents will be located within 400 metres of a bus service operating every 15 minutes or better, an increase of about 30%.
- The number of residents located within 400 metres of public transport service operatingn every 10 minutes or better will increase by 35%.
- The number of jobs or students located within 400 metres of public transport service operating every 10 minutes or better will increase by 19%.

Will people have to change buses more?
Many people won’t need to change buses but some people will. In some cases, people whocurrently have a direct service may have to change buses to get to their destination. However,because these two buses will operate on routes with a much higher frequency of service, inmost cases people will be able to get to their destination in a shorter overall trip time.

What about the fares?
We will simplify fares across bus, Luas and DART. There will be two Leap fares:

- A “90 Minute Fare” that covers all bus, DART or Luas trips started within 90 minutes.
- This 90 Minute Fare will allow you any combination of bus, Luas and DART for your journey, subject to the last leg commencing within 90 minutes of the start of the overall trip.
- A short distance fare paid each trip for short journeys.

Cash fares will continue to be available but will be payable for each trip.

Is this proposal fully decided?
No, the National Transport Authority (NTA) has put these proposals forward for public consultation. There are details available on www.busconnects.ie and you can give your views online or by post. The public submissions period will start on Monday 16th July and run to Friday14th September.

Will there be information meetings for the public?
Yes, the NTA will be arranging a series of local information sessions at various venues around the Dublin region. Those information sessions will be staffed by both NTA personnel and by Dublin Bus personnel and people will be able to get information on their particular queries.

Details of the venues and dates will be uploaded to the website www.busconnects.ie and will also be advertised in various newspapers.

LeinsterDub

MGWR wrote: »

Nobody wants to go to Gardiner Street. They want to go to O'Connell Street. Even the Swords buses were switched from running bi-directionally on Gardiner Street to unidirectionally (outbound), coming inbound on O'Connell Street.

And O'Connell Street would not be the bottleneck it is if it were not narrowed from eight lanes to four, if the Luas were not on the street in the city centre but instead underground, if North Frederick Street were still unidirectional southbound...the list is endless.

Ideally the bus would go from my doorstep to the doorstep of where I want to go but that's not practical. Gardiner Street should have much higher bus usage.

Victor

devnull wrote: »

Report is now out from Jarrett Walker
https://busconnects.ie/media/1228/busconnects-dublin-network-redesign-summary.pdf

All documents: https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/ = total 400MB - not mobile / Wi-Fi friendly.

loyatemu

Interesting proposals for North Wicklow with a 2 looped routes running in opposite directions around Greystones-Kilcoole-Newcastle-Newtown-Delgany ; though the claim in the report "DART will run every 20 minutes all day to Greystones." is not correct AFAIK, Dart frequency to Greystones won't be increasing.

schemingbohemia

The 90 minute fare should be a game changer.

LeinsterDub

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The 90 minute fare should be a game changer.

Yes across all modes which is key.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/SeanMJourno . Some interestign tweets from Sean who's at the launch.

Stephen15

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The 90 minute fare should be a game changer.

I wonder how the short distance fare will work? Will you still have to go to the drivers machine to get it?

troyzer

Fairly positive so far. Seems to mimic the bus system in Perth which was brilliant when I was living there. My only concern is the idea that it seems to be relying on frequent service. The report seems to know why buses are clustered but if they can't stop that, this will be a catastrophe with long waits at bus stops for interchanges.

Amirani

Just been looking at the main map. Initial impression is this is fantastic and should massively improve bus connectivity in Dublin.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1247/map2-proposednetwork.pdf

I expect there to be a good deal of opposition to some aspects, but I think once it operation it would be completely transformational.

L1011

The stops outside my house will lose direct access to the city centre but gain buses to Tallaght which has been nearly impossible to get to on PT. Think I can live with the slight walk to stops retaining direct service.

MJohnston

So does the 90 minute fare and short distance fare mean that Dublin Buses existing fare structure will be completely scrapped?

Amirani

L1011 wrote: »

The stops outside my house will lose direct access to the city centre but gain buses to Tallaght which has been nearly impossible to get to on PT. Think I can live with the slight walk to stops retaining direct service.

Yep, or presumably your local bus will get to to a City Centre Radial route pretty quickly so beneficial for those who can't walk too.