BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

cherryghost

At this stage I just want to know a summary of the research they've undertaken and what the plans are based off that.

dublinman1990

Here is what I assess from this new proposed livery.





This livery design above could be a design concept which had been proposed from Dublin Bus from their recent Oireachtas committee hearing on Transport. They did say from this hearing that Dublin Bus would have a branding room available to propose designs of their livery to stakeholders including officials from the DOT.

We are talking about the efficient use of assets. An asset of the State cannot just be given away. It is important to protect the brand, and one of the principal duties of the board is to protect the assets of the State and get the maximum value for them. Notwithstanding that, we have been engaged with the NTA. Dublin Bus has been driving this, because it has the expertise in branding. It set up a brand room, which everyone, including Ministers and officials from the Department, wanted to see, showing what a new branding concept for Dublin Bus, which would protect the brand and the value that it has, would look like, and presented the idea of a new, innovative and modern service. Dublin Bus is not afraid of change or of looking at branding, but it is going to protect its assets.

https://beta.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_tourism_and_sport/2017-10-25/3/

What is being seen above from that photograph could be one of the new trial liveries for Dublin Bus after all. How they got the buses to use the new design concept is another mystery in itself though. Could they be leased from the Wrights Factory in Ballymena or have the NTA purchased these buses to own them which displays the final NTA livery so that Go-Ahead uses them for their routes from next year. One thing is for certain in that a new Airlink livery is not an option this time round because using a new livery like the one above could create a conflict of interest with Aircoach because they use a livery that is a lighter shade of blue on their own coach fleet. A court case could arise of a potential breach of copyright issue that could be from a similar case that arose between Dublin Bus & Dublin Coach before. Also with Airlink; it is one of Dublin Bus's services provided without state funding. Using these buses for the Airlink would have had to be paid from Dublin Bus's own resources. The NTA would dare not to be seen in public buying new buses for Airlink because it breaks Irish law under illegal state aid rules for state companies based in the Republic.

But there is also another suspicion going around with these buses & this new livery, using a bus like a single decker Streetlite, so it can be used on routes from Dublin Airport probably would not be a good idea as a new replacement for the Airlink VG's. I would give the opinion they are vastly too small for it's passengers to use in an efficient way. There would be an outcry from potential passengers going out of Dublin Airport that the buses being used from there to the City Centre is too small & needs to be a double decker to be sufficient from a bus service provider that is meant to serve all bus passengers in Dublin.

Out of this concept livery there are a total of two buses being used to display this livery only or they could be they displaying another design to go with the SG. Who knows on that front? Out of the two buses so far; we have one Wright Gemini 3 SG double decker & One Wright Streetlite single decker displaying the new concepts. Could there be more than that. I am not sure on that note. However; it is likely that these buses have been given the authority from Dublin Bus to display the new concepts to the NTA & out to the public to try obtain a response from them.

Another idea floating around online is that this new bus livery could be used for apparently other bus services in Waterford. Which means that all the talk of using this livery for Dublin could be non existent & would be used for a county located outside of Dublin.

Either way it is an interesting topic to discuss even though it wasn't to meant to be as it could have been one of the last things focused on the NTA's mind right now.

StreetLight

At the moment, I don't know of any other operator except Dublin Bus where 'Entering Service' is the default display on a city bus. Why go to the bother of including it if that is not the case?

AlekSmart

StreetLight wrote: »

At the moment, I don't know of any other operator except Dublin Bus where 'Entering Service' is the default display on a city bus. Why go to the bother of including it if that is not the case?

"Entering Service" was added to the destination menu,at the behest of the NTA,and is a specific requirement of the current PSO Contract.

Another recent alteration is the replacement of the long standing "An Lár" with "Lár an Cathrach"....truly,the end of an era....:).

MGWR

AlekSmart wrote: »

"Entering Service" was added to the destination menu at the behest of the NTA, and is a specific requirement of the current PSO Contract.

Another recent alteration is the replacement of the long standing "An Lar with "Lar an Cathrach"....truly, the end of an era....:).

More fixing of what was not broken. The new re-centralisation authority has to justify itself with such changes, it seems, to assert its authority.

markpb

MGWR wrote: »

More fixing of what was not broken. The new re-centralisation authority has to justify itself with such changes, it seems, to assert its authority.

It's quite common in North America. And there's a psychological reason for adding it: nothing annoys people more when they're waiting for a bus than seeing an Out of Service bus fly by. It may seem like a small thing but the simple text change gives a more positive impression of Dublin Bus to its customers. It's like RPTI - it's pretty useless for most people because they don't make decisions based on it, it just makes them feel better because they know how long they'll have to wait.

It may seem like "fixing of what is not broken", especially to people who feel the need to constantly disparage the NTA but Dublin Bus has a pretty poor reputation with Dubliners so lost-cost fixes like this one are a good idea.

devnull

Agreed, there was a generally bad image with Dublin Bus when it came to buses flying by, often out of service, at the time a bus was due for many years and this created a very negative mindset, the amount of people who were complaining about so many buses going past out of service I observed was pretty high, both here and on the streets and talking to people who used the bus often.

There was a belief both by bus users and non bus users that some buses were skipping routes/journeys quite often with this message on even though a lot of those vehicles were leaving depots and on the way to the terminus to start operating in service. This was particularly a problem in the city center from the Phibsborough depot because of it's closeness to the city center.

devnull

Better photo here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/38357205434/in/datetaken/

Still think the lines look terrible, perhaps even worse in this one.

Dyr

devnull wrote: »

Better photo here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/81709772@N07/38357205434/in/datetaken/

Still think the lines look terrible, perhaps even worse in this one.

at least that Blue is okay, shame about the **** stripes

Tickityboo

StreetLight wrote: »

At the moment, I don't know of any other operator except Dublin Bus where 'Entering Service' is the default display on a city bus. Why go to the bother of including it if that is not the case?

I saw a Swords Express coach displaying it yesterday.

devnull

Tickityboo wrote: »

I saw a Swords Express coach displaying it yesterday.

I've seen it - but not in the same format as Dublin Bus with Irish as well.

Phil.x

Is this ever going to take off and more importantly will it make a realistic difference to travel times, is it just peak times like the new 39x and nothing at the weekend.

Ongar/clonsilla > city.

StreetLight

I can hardly wait for this project to be delivered. It's got to be better than the current clusterf*ck.

L1011

Having seen what a smaller city like Basel can do, where its orbital bus services connect other transport nodes, I have both hope for this, and a growing acceptance that our over-reliance on buses means the idea is screwed from the outset.

Anywhere within a decent distance of a rail (any type) line should probably not have many buses direct to the city centre.

StreetLight

I can hardly wait for this project to be delivered. It's got to be better than the current clusterf*ck.

dublinman1990

Would there be any possibilities from the NTA that these buses with the new livery are being used for a Hybrid bus trial for Dublin Bus & Go-Ahead Dublin?

punisher5112

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Would there be any possibilities from the NTA that these buses with the new livery are being used for a Hybrid bus trial for Dublin Bus & Go-Ahead Dublin?

Anything from now on was meant to be hybrid if bus connects is anything to go by....

vectorvictor

I'm late with my discovery here but now with a reason to commute between tallaght and dun laoighre I have an interest in route 75.

I have to say whoever created this route certainly made it epic. 1hr 50 this morning and on my return this evening after an hour I actually got off in Dundrum for a break followed by a further 58 minutes to Tallaght.

Understand the new guys are getting this route - will they too be compelled to keep the timing / route on par with a flight to Malaga ?

Stephen15

vectorvictor wrote: »

I'm late with my discovery here but now with a reason to commute between tallaght and dun laoighre I have an interest in route 75.

I have to say whoever created this route certainly made it epic. 1hr 50 this morning and on my return this evening after an hour I actually got off in Dundrum for a break followed by a further 58 minutes to Tallaght.

Understand the new guys are getting this route - will they too be compelled to keep the timing / route on par with a flight to Malaga ?

You'd probably be quicker getting a Dart to Connolly and a Luas from there or Busaras to Tallaght. As for the 75 its designed to be a orbital route serving various different places in South Dublin rather than a route you'd get from terminus to terminus for example if your going from Dundrum to Nutgrove or Ballinteer to Firhouse rather than going from DL to Tallaght.

Phil.x

vectorvictor wrote: »

I'm late with my discovery here but now with a reason to commute between tallaght and dun laoighre I have an interest in route 75.

I have to say whoever created this route certainly made it epic. 1hr 50 this morning and on my return this evening after an hour I actually got off in Dundrum for a break followed by a further 58 minutes to Tallaght.

Understand the new guys are getting this route - will they too be compelled to keep the timing / route on par with a flight to Malaga ?

Seriously, if I had to do this I'd get a 125cc moped, licence or not.

BonnieSituation

Stephen15 wrote: »

You'd probably be quicker getting a Dart to Connolly and a Luas from there or Busaras to Tallaght. As for the 75 its designed to be a orbital route serving various different places in South Dublin rather than a route you'd get from terminus to terminus for example if your going from Dundrum to Nutgrove or Ballinteer to Firhouse rather than going from DL to Tallaght.

Ha... "designed".

devnull

From what I understand a prototype livery on a double decker complete with graphics visited Dublin this week but is now back in Northern Ireland.

Note also that the Streetlite wearing this livery is a full size single decker and not a shorter midibus like the Dublin Bus ones

devnull

Better photo of the double decker now in - click the link for bigger - Has full TFI branding.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67013704@N04/39156683912/sizes/o/

dfx-

looks like blue, then white then green and at the back, grey..

dublinman1990

That livery application looks very nice on SG 333. The colours look really well on it. It is a much better choice than what we had before from the NTA livery survey in October. Apparently; this could be a prototype NTA livery so this may or may not be the final livery as of now. There is talk of more SG's going through the paintshop at Wrights in a week or two which may give us more examples of new livery applications on them.

The earlier photograph which showed a Streetlite single decker in the blue livery; that bus is called a Streetlite MAX. That bus is thought for it not to be used for routes in Dublin Bus as it is missing a few of it's specifications. It could be for Go-Ahead because the bus length is longer than Dublin Bus's current Streetlites in Donnybrook.

devnull

Hopefully it's blue at the back rather than Grey, may just be the lighting making it look grey. Certainly will stand out if that is the case, but impossible to tell for sure without seeing it fully.

Surely they are going to have a logo on the front though? I know that the livery examples didn't have one either, but will look odd without any kind of branding on the front?

Stephen15

That livery isin't bad unless thats grey at the back. It could be better and it could be worse but definitely better fhan what DB have currently.

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

looks like blue, then white then green and at the back, grey..

Reading the side logo on that Gemini,through the railings,looks like a partial Go-Ahead on the side,which could indicate it's part of their initial allocation

The Streetlites are part of the 40 vehicle single-deck order for use in Dublin,with as yet unannounced,operators.

XPS_Zero

vectorvictor wrote: »

I'm late with my discovery here but now with a reason to commute between tallaght and dun laoighre I have an interest in route 75.

I have to say whoever created this route certainly made it epic. 1hr 50 this morning and on my return this evening after an hour I actually got off in Dundrum for a break followed by a further 58 minutes to Tallaght.

Understand the new guys are getting this route - will they too be compelled to keep the timing / route on par with a flight to Malaga ?

I live on Dublin southside coast and I was doing this run. I decided that a few DART stops down and a bus rest of way would be grand. Oh my god. Oh my god. OH MY GOD. I thought the journey would never end, it was a kind of purgatory. What was I being punished for? I'd gotten to Newry quicker than this, I could nearly have made it to Belfast in the time it took to get to Tallaght. On the way back I decided I'll hop on the Luas and transfer to DART at Connoly MUCH MUCH faster.

XPS_Zero

Bray Head wrote: »

No it didn't. It was decided on a coin test after a drawn vote.

Several Financial companies that are fleeing the Brexittanic as her watertight bulkheads can now be seen to burst did give housing and public transport as reasons for deciding against Dublin and going elsewhere. Usual story, our lack of up not out (and the fanatical resistance to changing this even when we have a housing minister now who favors going up) and our shockingly inefficient PT