Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

Just wondering if I'm the only one who isn't all that bothered about the GS? I mean it would be fantastic to win it and all, but I don't think it devalues the title if we don't. It's like the cherry on top of what is already a pretty tasty baked good. It makes it a bit nicer, but it's not the end of the world if it isn't there.

It's a big bloody cherry. I'll be thrilled if we win the title but the GS is something a bit special. Nobody looks upon 2014 and 2015 in the same way we look upon 2009.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Just wondering if I'm the only one who isn't all that bothered about the GS? I mean it would be fantastic to win it and all, but I don't think it devalues the title if we don't. It's like the cherry on top of what is already a pretty tasty baked good. It makes it a bit nicer, but it's not the end of the world if it isn't there.

I'm the opposite. I don't nearly care as much about the Championship. Grand Slams are what gets remembered. Winning the Championship in a year where two teams win 4 games feels similar to a hard-fought LBP to me.

Interested Observer

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm not sure CJ is being singled out here. Generally I think our forwards should be passing more. POM had the most on Saturday with six, so that left ten passes between the other seven. The reason I brought it up at all, is that I noticed POM passing just before contact a couple of times and we got good yards from it.

Yes, it's something you see NZ do all the time. A forward will lay it off to the guy next to him who is then running at a gap or a shoulder instead of just taking straight contact.

It often gets highlighted how much we pass, I think we pass more than any other team in the tournament, but it's really just the halfbacks and of those even it's really just Murray.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

It's a big bloody cherry. I'll be thrilled if we win the title but the GS is something a bit special. Nobody looks upon 2014 and 2015 in the same way we look upon 2009.

2009 had more than just a GS win though. I'd imagine for almost all of us it was the first title in our lifetimes. We also went to Cardiff needing to win. A loss there and England would have pipped us at the post on PD. So the drama, the first title in our lifetimes and the GS all played into it. Even the previous few years of near misses and build up (triple crowns and 2007s heartache) all added to it.

The last 2 wins weren't as special because we weren't waiting for as long and Irish teams had started to get used to winning silverware too.

Don't get me wrong, the GS is a pretty big cherry. You're right there. But I just won't be massively disappointed if we didn't win it, so long as we won the title.

Bridge93

Get the feeling the GS will be harder to do than if it was a straight shoot out with England. In that scenario theyd be feeling all the nerves and anticipation we would be.
As it is now they'll be hitting their heads off walls to make up for that Scotland game and will be hellbent on retribution for Dublin last year

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

Just wondering if I'm the only one who isn't all that bothered about the GS? I mean it would be fantastic to win it and all, but I don't think it devalues the title if we don't. It's like the cherry on top of what is already a pretty tasty baked good. It makes it a bit nicer, but it's not the end of the world if it isn't there.

I’m the same. Maybe it’s because I’m a bit younger (ahem) than some here but the GS is a novelty for me. Bit of bragging rights is all. Winning the championship is more important to me. The back-to-back championships mean more to me than the 09 GS.

I’d love another GS obviously but if we win the title in Dublin but lose in London I won’t be awfully bothered.

If you go on to win the Heineken having been unbeaten in all 9 games is sweet and all, but the trophy is sweeter.

Shefwedfan

Jamie Heaslip just retired

Time will get us all, but it's cornered me earlier than I hoped.

Every professional sportsperson always hopes to be able leave their chosen sport on their terms but too often that’s not the case.

I have had to take on board the medical advice that I have been given and after talking to Sheena and my family I have taken the difficult decision to retire with immediate effect from playing rugby in order to ensure my future well being.

I’m very proud to finish my career as a one club man having played amongst some of the best in the game, who are all like a family of brothers to me.

My goal when I started my professional career 14 years ago was to leave the the jerseys that I wore in a better place and I hope I have done that.

Thank you to the IRFU, Leinster Rugby, all the coaches, medical staff,back room staff, sponsors, media, supporters and most importantly my wife, family , friends and fellow players for helping me to make my dreams come true.

I’ve had the time of my life on and off the rugby pitch but now its time for the next chapter.

Jamie

Bridge93

Irelands greatest ever number 8? Sad way for it all to end given how innocuous it seemed and his reputation as iron man. But the recovery at that age and for that length of time is not worth the physical or mental anguish. He's done it all and has nothing to prove

molloyjh

Agh, gutted for the guy. But if there's anyone well set up for life after rugby its him. Hope he does as well out of rugby as he did in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTS85UE1ask

awec

.ak wrote: »

I’m the same. Maybe it’s because I’m a bit younger (ahem) than some here but the GS is a novelty for me. Bit of bragging rights is all. Winning the championship is more important to me. The back-to-back championships mean more to me than the 09 GS.

I’d love another GS obviously but if we win the title in Dublin but lose in London I won’t be awfully bothered.

If you go on to win the Heineken having been unbeaten in all 9 games is sweet and all, but the trophy is sweeter.

We can’t really win the title in Dublin, at least not really in front of our support. Were the first game next round so will be waiting on other results.

As for a grand slam, it’s massive compared to another championship for me. Another championship is great and all but isn’t going to overly excite me if it’s another 4 win title and I think if this current team doesn’t win a GS it will have underachieved.

Time for this Ireland side to go to the next level and stick 5 wins back to back.

The Heineken cup has no concept of a grand slam so not really comparable.

Also a GS is the one realistic achievement that Schmidt has yet to deliver. Nobody expects him to win a World Cup.

Podge_irl

A 5 point win in Dublin all but guarantees it though - England would require a bonus point win over France and us in that scenario.

Jack Kanoff

Ah that's very sad news indeed.
The 2 greatest 8's I've seen live are Axel and Jamie...and I would have Jamie as my No.1
Sad day for the guy personally and the game in general.... hope that he stays in the game and gets into coaching at some level.

prawnsambo

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

Ah that's very sad news indeed.
The 2 greatest 8's I've seen live are Axel and Jamie...and I would have Jamie as my No.1
Sad day for the guy personally and the game in general.... hope that he stays in the game and gets into coaching at some level.

I somehow doubt it given the outside interests he has now. Afaik, he also has a biomedical engineering degree.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Another championship is great and all but isn’t going to overly excite me if it’s another 4 win title

I don't get this. Winning a major title isn't going to excite you? The 6Ns is only the second biggest title that any rugby team in this country could possibly win. And the highest they could conceivably win if you don't expect us to win a RWC. Winning the highest title you'd expect to win and not being excited about it just seems a bit weird to me.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't get this. Winning a major title isn't going to excite you? The 6Ns is only the second biggest title that any rugby team in this country could possibly win. And the highest they could conceivably win if you don't expect us to win a RWC. Winning the highest title you'd expect to win and not being excited about it just seems a bit weird to me.

Given the team we have our aim should be a grand slam.

The highest title we can realistically expect to win is a grand slam.

I’m not yet ready to settle for the second best thing.

Professor Moriarty

Something something ...Triple Crown...something something....

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't get this. Winning a major title isn't going to excite you? The 6Ns is only the second biggest title that any rugby team in this country could possibly win. And the highest they could conceivably win if you don't expect us to win a RWC. Winning the highest title you'd expect to win and not being excited about it just seems a bit weird to me.

For me, the Grand Slam is the second biggest title that any rugby team in this country could possibly win.

And a 4 win championship will (in a scenario where we beat Scotland) mean we won by losing in Twickenham. It wouldn't be at all as thrilling to me.

errlloyd

I used to think winning anything in the even years was impossible. At 77 minutes in Paris I'd have bitten your hand off to just win that match. I've see Ireland win the same amount of grand slams as my father has, he's 60.

England have not played well against Scotland or Wales. They're there to be taken, but we needed 83 minutes to beat France, and 81 to actually put away Wales. If we win anything this year I'll be over the moon.

awec

We all got a thrill out of beating England last year and denying them one. To then say we aren’t that bothered about winning it ourselves seems a bit small time.

I dunno, to start writing off a GS already seems like we’re back to downplaying expectations again.

Picking up a championship after losing to England would be pretty bittersweet. Losing to Scotland and beating England would absolutely suck.

Zzippy

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't get this. Winning a major title isn't going to excite you? The 6Ns is only the second biggest title that any rugby team in this country could possibly win. And the highest they could conceivably win if you don't expect us to win a RWC. Winning the highest title you'd expect to win and not being excited about it just seems a bit weird to me.

I get both sides of the argument, but assuming we beat Scotland (big assumption, I know) the timing will probably mean we either win the GS in Twickenham, or end the 6N with a defeat. Which would make the GS much more memorable than winning the 6N with 4 wins. It's hard to celebrate a championship on an anti-climax and won't feel as exciting.

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Another championship is great and all but isn’t going to overly excite me if it’s another 4 win title

I don't get this. Winning a major title isn't going to excite you? The 6Ns is only the second biggest title that any rugby team in this country could possibly win. And the highest they could conceivably win if you don't expect us to win a RWC. Winning the highest title you'd expect to win and not being excited about it just seems a bit weird to me.

I'll be very excited if we win the title. That said at this juncture I'd be very surprised if we don't win the title.

That said winning a GS something resonates through history. It takes the achievement to a new level.

Bridge93

I'd be really excited to win the championship. I'd be more excited to win the GS. We've come so close and been robbed of both a number of times through the noughties that a bit of payback is in order

3 championships and a GS in 10 years would be amazing.
2 championships and 2 GS was unthinkable 10 years ago

Professor Moriarty

awec wrote: »

We all got a thrill out of beating England last year and denying them one. To then say we aren’t that bothered about winning it ourselves seems a bit small time.

I dunno, to start writing off a GS already seems like we’re back to downplaying expectations again.

Picking up a championship after losing to England would be pretty bittersweet. Losing to Scotland and beating England would absolutely suck.

If we were playing Scotland in Murrayfield we could be in serious trouble but we should beat them in Dublin. And if the same England turns up in Twickenham as turned up in Murrayfield then we have a good chance. Unfortunately, wounded pride is a great motivator. I don't think we'll beat England.

Jack Kanoff

prawnsambo wrote: »

I somehow doubt it given the outside interests he has now. Afaik, he also has a biomedical engineering degree.

I would tend to agree that the chances are slim, but I hope maybe at grassroots or schools level he would lend his knowledge...would be great for 15-18yo youngsters to have Heaslip training you.... maybe pie in the sky from me, we shall see what happens.

irishbucsfan

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

I would tend to agree that the chances are slim, but I hope maybe at grassroots or schools level he would lend his knowledge...would be great for 15-18yo youngsters to have Heaslip training you.... maybe pie in the sky from me, we shall see what happens.

He may well end up helping out at Naas, has done before, but I'd say he'll look to make a clean break from the professional game.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

I'll be very excited if we win the title. That said at this juncture I'd be very surprised if we don't win the title.

If we don't win the title from this position, it will be a massive failure. We are 5 points ahead and 24 points to the good in terms of points difference.

Even if ourselves and England get identical results (us at home to Scotland and England playing in Paris), that will mean that England will need to beat us by more than 12 points with a try BP in Twickenham.

Realistically, I think we're in with a good chance of winning the title on the 4th weekend. I hope that doesn't take some of the urgency and intensity out of the team come the closing game.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I dunno, to start writing off a GS already seems like we’re back to downplaying expectations again.

Who has written off the GS? All I said was that I wouldn't be devastated if we didn't win it.

I suppose where I'm coming from is that all the talk now is a GS. We've an away game against the 2nd best team in the world though. Setting a GS as an expectation from here is ambitious. That's a good thing. Expecting that to become a reality and not being happy with anything else seems to be a bit entitled to me, and so is a bad thing.

Winning 3 6Ns in 5 years is a bloody good achievement. In the pro era it's only been done 4 times. France have done it three times and England have done it once. The last time it was done was France from 2006-2010 and they dominated the noughties with 5 titles in 10 years. If we win this year we'll have won 4 in 10 years. Compared to 3 English, 2 Welsh and 1 French title that's good going too.

There's plenty to be happy about just winning the Championship.

Interested Observer

prawnsambo wrote: »

I somehow doubt it given the outside interests he has now. Afaik, he also has a biomedical engineering degree.

He's said in the past he has no interest in coaching.

molloyjh

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'd be really excited to win the championship. I'd be more excited to win the GS. We've come so close and been robbed of both a number of times through the noughties that a bit of payback is in order

3 championships and a GS in 10 years would be amazing.
2 championships and 2 GS was unthinkable 10 years ago

Yep, I suppose that's what I'm saying. A title win is fantastic and I'd be delighted with it. A GS would be amazing and I'd be over the moon. But I'd still be more than happy with 4 in 10 (2009, 2014, 2015 & 2018).

Bridge93

YOu could make an argument that England getting 5 in Paris and as a result staying in the comp would be bad for championship chances (marginal still so long as we do the business with Scotland) but good for GS ambitions. England would be forced to chase it and may expose themselves. Would still rather the championship is done and dusted by London