Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Interested Observer

Shane Horgan pretty scathing of our defence on Second Captains. Doesn't seem particularly impressed by Stockdale.

Former Former

foxyladyxx wrote: »

I am passionate about rugby and am passionate about my country. Only 5 wins will make me happy. I believe we can do it.

First up we deal with Scotland and we will win.

Everyone believes we CAN do it.

The question is whether it's reasonable to be happy only if we beat the second best team in the world in their home ground.

Bridge93

if Facebook is to be believed, a win of any kind for us and loss of any kind for England in two weeks will see us go second in the world. The game at Twickenham of course is a more natural place this issue will be decided on a longer term basis than a single week

mangobob

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can someone please point to anyone who has said this?

Serious straw manning going on today.

Well, since you asked:

awec wrote: »

If we win another championship and no slam it's certainly not a bad year but it'll be a bit disappointing.

Then these which are semantically different but similar in sentiment:

Buer wrote: »

Do people remember how deflated the England team were and how the title seemed like the consolation prize? That will be the situation if we beat Scotland and then lose.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Watching Ireland walking off the pitch having won the Championship but lost the match would be a great achievement for sure but a bit of an anti-climax.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well if we do go after the slam and we fail to achieve it, it is a failure and it is a sign that we weren't able to step up further.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

A whole championship without a loss is an achievement but it'd be a killer at the time to come so close.

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Only 5 wins will make me happy. I believe we can do it

The first quote from Awec literally describes it as "disappointing".

Then we have deflating and anti-climactic which are synonyms for disappointment. You yourself, while acknowledging that a championship would still be an achievement, characterise the failure to win a GS in Twickenham as "a failure" and "a killer" which are hardly different. Then one in which the poster says they would only be happy with 5 wins, ergo 4 would be disappointing.

What are you trying to argue here?

irishbucsfan

mangobob wrote: »

Well, since you asked:

Then these which are semantically different but similar in sentiment:

The first quote from Awec literally describes it as "disappointing".

Then we have deflating and anti-climactic which are synonyms for disappointment. You yourself, while acknowledging that a championship would still be an achievement, characterise the failure to win a GS in Twickenham as "a failure" and "a killer" which are hardly different. Then one in which the poster says they would only be happy with 5 wins, ergo 4 would be disappointing.

What are you trying to argue here?

Alright, fair enough awec did actually say it, although it's a bit of a contradiction with other stuff he said I'd say. The others (apart from the one that happened after my post) are not at all people saying they'd be disappointed with 4 wins and a Championship and it's a mischaracterisation, an intentional one, to attempt to use these posts to make that point.

I don't understand how you couldn't possibly understand my argument. Your satisfaction with the entire Championship is completely different to your satisfaction with a single game on the last day. You should be capable of sepurating the two.

(I left in a typo there for you)

Former Former

Bridge93 wrote: »

if Facebook is to be believed, a win of any kind for us and loss of any kind for England in two weeks will see us go second in the world. The game at Twickenham of course is a more natural place this issue will be decided on a longer term basis than a single week

This is correct (assuming we beat Scotland)

In fact, should England lose in Paris and we beat Scotland, we would be in second place even before the Twickenham game.

Podge_irl

Former Former wrote: »

This is correct (assuming we beat Scotland)

In fact, should England lose in Paris and we beat Scotland, we would be in second place even before the Twickenham game.

That would be exactly what they said :pac::D

joseywhales

Podge_irl wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

This is correct (assuming we beat Scotland)

In fact, should England lose in Paris and we beat Scotland, we would be in second place even before the Twickenham game.

That would be exactly what they said :pac::D

In fact, a win of any kind over England  will see us go second.
In fact, we only need to win and England to lose next round and we will be second in the world rankings.
In fact

Former Former

Podge_irl wrote: »

That would be exactly what they said :pac::D

Dang, I forgot there was a gap week this week.

irishbucsfan

Don't worry, I read Podge's post and still didn't get it

Podge_irl

I only remember because bye weeks make me sad

Neil3030

Congratulations to us - Ireland are now officially the highest points scorers in Six Nations History

since the bonus points system was introduced in 2017

mangobob

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Alright, fair enough awec did actually say it, although it's a bit of a contradiction with other stuff he said I'd say.

Its not really that its a contradiction as such, its just that (as I understand him) he was saying that this is a great Irish team who are more than capable of winning the GS and that should be our benchmark. Thus winning the championship without a GS would be somewhat of an underachievement and we should not settle for that. I understand where he is coming from, its just I would argue that for me, the benchmark is the trophy and that setting a GS as the only standard for success devalues that. Maybe I just have lower standards :pac:

The others (apart from the one that happened after my post) are not at all people saying they'd be disappointed with 4 wins and a Championship and it's a mischaracterisation, an intentional one, to attempt to use these posts to make that point.

If I am mischaracterising them, I apologise. Its absolutely not my intention. I honestly interpreted those posts at the time (and even now on review) as meaning that if we win our first 4 matches and then fail to win a GS in Twickenham, it would be deflating and anti-climactic which in my mind means the same thing as disappointing. Which is fine. But I am certainly open to correction if I am misrepresenting them in any way.

I don't understand how you couldn't possibly understand my argument.

I thought I did understand it, since I actually agreed with most of it lol.

I simply disputed the part where you said I was straw manning for claiming that some people said they would disappointed with anything less than a GS. It seemed clear to me that that's what was being said.

As I read the thread there were two camps emerging. One camp felt that we should be setting our bar as high as possible and anything less than a slam would be a disappointment and to a degree, a failure, while the other camp believes that winning the trophy alone would be a success, and anything more would be a bonus. Both are perfectly valid positions, I just happen to agree with the latter.

(I left in a typo there for you)

Thanks...I guess lol. Well I can't complain. Looking back over my comments, the number of typos is worrying, especially given the fact that I actually reread them before posting

Podge_irl

**** it lads.

I got my eye on that 19 game winning streak record.

prawnsambo

Podge_irl wrote: »

**** it lads.

I got my eye on that 19 game winning streak record.

Is it not 19?

Ooooh, Ninja edit of the fastest kind. I am reaaaalllly impressed.

kuang1

Podge_irl wrote: »

**** it lads.

I got my eye on that 19 game winning streak record.

WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT....WHY!!!

*throws salt over shoulder*

Neil3030

kuang1 wrote: »

WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT....WHY!!!

*throws salt over shoulder*

Reminds me of when I was living in Italy, I accidentally dropped and smashed a large bottle of olive oil on a tile floor. My housemate from Calabria immediately told me not to do anything and then frantically called his mother. I'm thinking, wow, I know olive oil is a pain to clean up, maybe he's just calling his mam to make sure we do this the best way. He hung up the phone, grabbed the box of sea-salt and dumped the whole thing onto the oil spillage. I asked what that does to help clean the oil up, he replied, "nothing, but IT WILL SAVE YOUR SOUL".

Yeah apparently it's a big superstition down there - smash a bottle of oil, you are jinxed for life, but pouring salt on it will save you.

Burkie1203

Its quite feasible that there is no more away wins in this 6n, excluding Italy. Which would mean our win in Paris would be the only other away win

Was a fairly similar thing last year with England's win in Cardiff the only away win excluding Italy.

A slam would be great. Think its unlikely. If we dont win the title it would be a huge let down.

bilston

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Its quite feasible that there is no more away wins in this 6n, excluding Italy. Which would mean our win in Paris would be the only other away win

Was a fairly similar thing last year with England's win in Cardiff the only away win excluding Italy.

A slam would be great. Think its unlikely. If we dont win the title it would be a huge let down.

Not winning the title from here would be a failure as it would almost certainly involve losing to Scotland, or narrowly beating Scotland and getting hammered by England.

prawnsambo

bilston wrote: »

Not winning the title from here would be a failure as it would almost certainly involve losing to Scotland, or narrowly beating Scotland and getting hammered by England.

What he's saying is if there are no more away wins, that means Scotland lose to us, France beat England and England beat us. That adds up to a championship win for us but no GS.

Neil3030

There have actually been 8 Grand Slams in the 18 years of the Six Nations - one for us, two for England and France, and 3 for Wales. I suppose when you factor in the cyclical nature of teams peaking and troughing, combined with the home and away schedules alternating, it makes sense; basically quite often one side will hit a peak, and at the same time get a nice schedule. So they are rare for individual teams, but not rare for the tournament, if that makes sense.

ionadnapokot

Neil3030 wrote: »

There have actually been 8 Grand Slams in the 18 years of the Six Nations - one for us, two for England and France, and 3 for Wales. I suppose when you factor in the cyclical nature of teams peaking and troughing, combined with the home and away schedules alternating, it makes sense; basically quite often one side will hit a peak, and at the same time get a nice schedule. So they are rare for individual teams, but not rare for the tournament, if that makes sense.

Last years 6N schedule was as good as it gets for Ireland.
& I would say that this Irish team Is not at its peak (e.g. chronic defense, injured THead and SOB) with a difficult schedule. Of all the Joe Schmidt 6N campaigns this would be the most unlikely of Championship campaigns to date. As for a Grand Slam? Le Drop from the Gods and a get out jail intercept would indicate that this team are “whistling past the graveyard”

Former Former

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Last years 6N schedule was as good as it gets for Ireland.
& I would say that this Irish team Is not at its peak (e.g. chronic defense, injured THead and SOB) with a difficult schedule. Of all the Joe Schmidt 6N campaigns this would be the most unlikely of Championship campaigns to date. As for a Grand Slam? Le Drop from the Gods and a
get out jail intercept would indicate that this team are “whistling past the graveyard”

Do you mean Stockdale? We were already ahead.

prawnsambo

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Last years 6N schedule was as good as it gets for Ireland.
& I would say that this Irish team Is not at its peak (e.g. chronic defense, injured THead and SOB) with a difficult schedule. Of all the Joe Schmidt 6N campaigns this would be the most unlikely of Championship campaigns to date. As for a Grand Slam? Le Drop from the Gods and a get out jail intercept would indicate that this team are “whistling past the graveyard”

Funny, but that's exactly how it was in 2009. Last game, a drop goal to seal it. We scored only 12 tries in the entire campaign but only let in 3. But we only beat England by a point and Wales by two. Scotland and France were 7 and 9 point games.

Schedule was almost the same too except for the obvious switch of away and home fictures. France first, then Italy. Wales and England swapped places and Scotland were fourth up.

ionadnapokot

Former Former wrote: »

Do you mean Stockdale? We were already ahead.

I do! Yes we were ahead but....sorry.what do you mean?

Interested Observer

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Last years 6N schedule was as good as it gets for Ireland.
& I would say that this Irish team Is not at its peak (e.g. chronic defense, injured THead and SOB) with a difficult schedule. Of all the Joe Schmidt 6N campaigns this would be the most unlikely of Championship campaigns to date. As for a Grand Slam? Le Drop from the Gods and a get out jail intercept would indicate that this team are “whistling past the graveyard”

We came joint last in 2013 so winning it in 2014 would have been pretty unlikely, and it was also the same schedule as this year. This is Schmidt's fifth season in charge, if we're getting less likely instead of more likely to win it then something has gone very wrong.

ionadnapokot

prawnsambo wrote: »

Funny, but that's exactly how it was in 2009. Last game, a drop goal to seal it. We scored only 12 tries in the entire campaign but only let in 3. But we only beat England by a point and Wales by two. Scotland and France were 7 and 9 point games.

Schedule was almost the same too except for the obvious switch of away and home fictures. France first, then Italy. Wales and England swapped places and Scotland were fourth up.

I think 2009 campaign is very different for many of the reasons you have highlighted. I wouldn’t say we got out of jail in any of the games before Cardiff.
And we never had to use a term such as “work-ons” to describe ****e defense. what I wouldn’t give for a Less Kiss narrow defense led by BOD right now!

irishbucsfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I wouldn’t say we got out of jail in any of the games before Cardiff.

I think your memory of 2009 must be very sketchy!

I still get nervous remembering that England game

ionadnapokot

Interested Observer wrote: »

We came joint last in 2013 so winning it in 2014 would have been pretty unlikely, and it was also the same schedule as this year. This is Schmidt's fifth season in charge, if we're getting less likely instead of more likely to win it then something has gone very wrong.

Logic is a bit slanted there I think!
Grand Slams usually are dictated by schedule and injuries. Not by how many years head coach is in charge.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think your memory of 2009 must be very sketchy!

I still get nervous remembering that England game

Jesus, that England game. Probably the closest I've ever seen to one player dragging a team over the line in rugby.

We were not good for most of that tournament. But we won - so who cares!