It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

robbiezero

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

My Grandmother is alive .:mad:

That saying means that you take after her.

Green Peter

nhunter100 wrote:

What resources does a guard need to inform him/her something is illegal? Is a comprehension of the law not a requirement to be a guard?

Im sure you like to be adequately resourced in your own job, you'll know that it's done better as a result. Corrupt people will always emerge in any organisation with 12000 people, there are gardai in the courts on a regular basis and prosecuted by gardai in most cases, it's no different than other forces in the 1st world. In fact the reality is AGS would be seen as one of the better forces in Europe by other forces !

nhunter100

Green Peter wrote:

Im sure you like to be adequately resourced in your own job, you'll know that it's done better as a result. Corrupt people will always emerge in any organisation with 12000 people, there are gardai in the courts on a regular basis and prosecuted by gardai in most cases, it's no different than other forces in the 1st world. In fact the reality is AGS would be seen as one of the better forces in Europe by other forces !

You didn't answer my questions , is it not a prerequisite for a guard to know the law?

Discodog

steddyeddy wrote: »

The refusal of the 99% to do anything about the 1% gives the organisation a bad name.

In a nutshell. There aren't good Guards because a good one wouldn't stand for this & maybe the same rule for the catholics.

The Guards are happy to strike for money but don't give a **** about morality.

Green Peter

Jamiekelly wrote:

She doesn't seem to really think there is a problem at all when you get past her press office waffle. Hollow words thrown into the same echo chamber of commissioners past.

nhunter100 wrote:

You didn't answer my questions , is it not a prerequisite for a guard to know the law?

Law is continuously changing and updating and that is why CPD is so important and it's been non existent

Discodog

Green Peter wrote: »

Im sure you like to be adequately resourced in your own job, you'll know that it's done better as a result. Corrupt people will always emerge in any organisation with 12000 people, there are gardai in the courts on a regular basis and prosecuted by gardai in most cases, it's no different than other forces in the 1st world. In fact the reality is AGS would be seen as one of the better forces in Europe by other forces !

Really ? They are law enforcement officers & should know the consequences of systematic, ongoing law breaking. How many children would of been abused if the Guards actually did their job instead of turning a blind eye.

The obvious question is have the intelligence service, conveniently also the Guards, got so much information that no government will act ?

Green Peter

Discodog wrote:

In a nutshell. There aren't good Guards because a good one wouldn't stand for this & maybe the same rule for the catholics.

Discodog wrote:

The Guards are happy to strike for money but don't give a **** about morality.

Did they give you a ticket?

nhunter100

nhunter100 wrote: »

You didn't answer my questions , is it not a prerequisite for a guard to know the law?

They know the law, the ones that break it are subjected to the same criminal investigation as civilians.

nhunter100

Green Peter wrote:

Law is continuously changing and updating and that is why CPD is so important and it's been non existent

There are also laws that have been consistent since the foundation of the state, how does one justify ignorance of those?

nhunter100

bubblypop wrote:

They know the law, the ones that break it are subjected to the same criminal investigation as civilians.

The most recent newspaper article would seem to suggest this not the case.

Discodog

Green Peter wrote: »

Did they give you a ticket?

Nope but I have lived abroad a lot & I sure don't rate the Guards as one of the best. At least the English Police are empathetic, polite, pleasant & have something the Guards would never understand......a sense of humour.

They also went through a clear out & now have scrupulous complaints procedures

nhunter100

nhunter100 wrote: »

The most recent newspaper article would seem to suggest this not the case.

Yea? Which one?
There are Gardai arrested & investigated & charged regularly.

RustyNut

Discodog wrote: »

& have something the Guards would never understand

Accountability?

Green Peter

Discodog wrote:

Nope but I have lived abroad a lot & I sure don't rate the Guards as one of the best. At least the English Police are empathetic, polite, pleasant & have something the Guards would never understand......a sense of humour.

Tell that to the Birmingham 6

Discodog

RustyNut wrote: »

Accountability?

My mistake :pac:

Discodog

Green Peter wrote: »

Tell that to the Birmingham 6

That's before the clear out when they were just like the Guards

Green Peter

Discodog wrote:

That's before the clear out when they were just like the Guards

You even sound like you believe it !!!!

please helpThank YOU

Green Peter wrote: »

Tell that to the Birmingham 6

The Guildford four England . In Ireland we have the case where Gardai and DPP did not disclose evidence in the case of Nora Wall the former irish nun. who was wrongfully convicted of rape and Jailed for life in 1999 Gardai knew see was innocent Women but left her be Jailed for life in the Wrong .

RustyNut

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

The Guildford four England . In Ireland we have the case where Gardai and DPP did not disclose evidence in the case of Nora Wall the former irish nun. who was wrongfully convicted of rape and Jailed for life in 1999 Gardai knew see was innocent Women but left her be Jailed for life in the Wrong .

Not to mention the Sallins train robbery.

Little CuChulainn

nhunter100 wrote: »

You didn't answer my questions , is it not a prerequisite for a guard to know the law?

The law is a fairly large body of work that practitioners spend years studying before going before a judge. Gardaí are expected to investigate and prosecute cases alone after about 9 months of training. Even if you narrowed it down to criminal law, constitutional law, data protection and official secrets legislation it is still a lot of material and is being thought by other Gardaí for the most part. And it has to go hand in hand with policy and procedure training too. Not to mention the rest of the stuff they try to cram into the short time in the college.

So when you talk about the law, what specific area of law are you referring to?

cursai

Hey, it could be worse. We could be in Mexico. Also I'd take whatever the independent write with a HUGE grain of salt.

Kivaro

Green Peter wrote: »

Lack of resources for training, no continuous professional development, lack of IT, lack of equipment in general, .....

This is the same spiel that the public heard from the spokespersons during the recent Garda conferences. Are these issues the cause of the corrupt and illegal activities by members of the force? What I didn't hear from these same spokespersons was an admission of culpability. Own up to it and take responsibility for Garda illegal activities; don't pass the buck.

I also believe that there would be some empathy for the lack of resources and training if the general public's interactions with the Garda in Ireland were overall positive in nature. I'm talking about the lack of professional courtesy by Gardai that we see in other jurisdictions. I'm talking about a police force who are proactive in their duties, and not waiting for the call to come in that somebody was brutally assaulted after the pubs closed on a Saturday night. I'm talking about Gardai treating the members of the public with respect, which should be the core tenet of the force.

The obvious disclaimer needs to state that there are Gardai in Ireland who take their job seriously and act in a professional manner and I have pity on those who have to deal with the unsavory aspect of our society. Unfortunately due to the systemic abuses and illegal activities that we seem to be reading about on a daily basis, the only solution for policing in Ireland is a new police force (with outside help).

Widdershins

I have found that the level of professionalism varies greatly from one member of the gardai to another, which (along with the succession of scandals) suggests to me that there isn't a standard there. The idea of a whole new police force is a really interesting one. Our other emergency services are, in my opinion, exemplary.

please helpThank YOU

RustyNut wrote: »

Not to mention the Sallins train robbery.

Sorry them too1976 Sallins Train Robbery Jailed for 9 to 12 years for a crime the did not commit. by the Gardai to extract confession by beaten them four innocent men and put them four innocent men under duress to get a conviction and for the Gardai to get Stripes.

RustyNut

Green Peter wrote: »

The force has been under resourced for years and that is at the root of the problem!

So would it be ok for the rest of society to use that excuse for breaking the law and expect to get away it?
I didn't tax my car because I'm "under resourced". I only sell drugs because I'm "under resourced" etc.

Cutie 3.14

The army do it too. These are just people at the end of the day and if you had that power wouldn't you be tempted to have a snoop at your neighbours phone calls? Even if it were just out of pure nosieness?

Kivaro

Widdershins wrote: »

I have found that the level of professionalism varies greatly from one member of the gardai to another, which (along with the succession of scandals) suggests to me that there isn't a standard there.

Thanks Widdershins; that is what I was getting at.
It needs to be consistent. At the moment, members of the public don't know what they are getting upon encountering a member of the Gardai e.g. professional versus confrontational. If the public believed that courtesy and professionalism was the standard interaction for non-crime related activities then the interaction would be a more positive experience (for both).

Muahahaha

jelutong wrote: »

99%. of the Gardai get the other 1% a bad name.

Not buying it. 1 million fake breath tests tells us otherwise. Works out at approx. 65 fake tests per Garda employed. As the Commissioner herself said it means that the Gardai are incompetent or corrupt.

Discodog

The number one item of Garda training should be that, if you see anything that you believe could be corrupt, then report it. If not you will be considered guilty. Reporting corruption is a duty & will be seen as a positive concerning future salary, promotion etc.

Discodog

Green Peter wrote: »

You even sound like you believe it !!!!

I am old enough & was living in England. I remember bent coppers & bent senior officers. Any complaint against a UK officer is now taken very seriously. The UK Police hate & fear the anti corruption units for very good reason