It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

tea and coffee

bubblypop wrote: »

What is this? Over 35s have had something handed to them? They don't work hard? I don't understand your crazy rants

Damn it. I knew I should have joined that queue. I missed my handout. I was working that day.

Tell me how

myshirt wrote:

You are. Do you know why? I hope to f#ck you do, because many don't. They go around thinking it is self efficacy and their own hard work that got them where they are.

So I hope you're not pulling out leg here. You are very lucky, yes.

35 year olds were born in or around 1982. They were 18 in 2000 when the "Celtic tiger" had found it's feet. From there to 2008 when the collapse happened, they had had the opportunity to contribute, benefit and influence both the economy and society. Why should they abdicate any responsibility for whatever problems you are upset about?

So, if you say that it's those who were entering the working world from about 2008 onwards who have been shafted then that's mostly because a lot of these didn't realize the harsher environment that existed up until the mid to late 90's.

Why should anyone have something handed to them? The crime here is the group of people whose peak informative years coincided with the peak boom years and now feel that that should be their norm or else someone else is at fault.

gifted

blade1 wrote: »

Let's say if 20% were.
That would be only 256 million!:eek:

"Let's say if 20% were"....

You were going grand there until you started randomly plucking numbers out of the sky lol lol

shar01

Wow! Did not know that many guards posted on Boards. A double derail - the Church and whataboutery about who caused the crash.

<slow handclap>

Well done.

Winterlong

Anyone giving out about how they have been shafted by older generations should do a little economic research on ireland in the 70s and 80s.
It was not all shag carpets you know.

Stoner

osarusan wrote:

Jaysus, lucky I am older than 35!

Me too, I'd go mad if all that was going on in my universe.

drunkmonkey

Erik Shin wrote: »

Any organisation that doesn't have outside monitoring is always open to corruption....but I don't believe anyone is accusing the Gardai of systemic child abuse, torturing of young mothers and kissing their rings

There's nobody accusing them of turning a blind eye to to those crimes but ohh boy they sure are guilty of it.

Erik Shin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There's nobody accusing them of turning a blind eye to to those crimes but ohh boy they sure are guilty of it.

Apt username perhaps

Stoner

osarusan wrote:

Where am I and what is it that has got me there?

You are in universe 202877 however this forum is accessable to people from parallel universe 1124326

There's waiting lists in hospitals there , they can't retire on a state pension at 55 like us.
They have to pay for medical insurance and it's expensive.

They don't have any industrial schools or work houses either to store the low lifes , and the priest never calls for tea. They only get two holidays a year, the police filter all phone calls between people under 35 through a listening centre.

They have crime there, they haven't solved that one yet. Their city centres and towns are awash with drug addicts. They have to pay property tax and for water

Their bankers don't have wings, and when people do the wrong thing in universe 1124326 they don't leave their jobs, pay it back, show remorse or anything like that, it must be very frustrating there

drunkmonkey

Erik Shin wrote: »

Apt username perhaps

I'm not intoxicated right now give me a few hours but I do believe there was a mass cover up by church and state about child abuse and neither a political party or the Garda were held accountable only the Church. Looking the other way in those circumstances should be a crime.

vicwatson

Met a sargeant I know the other day I was told "its a cultural thing" and the shoulders were shrugged, then I was told "only 2 years to go" (to retirement) - that's also a "cultural thing" - they can't wait to get out the door after 30 years service or aged 50 on full pension. That system is a joke.

vicwatson

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not intoxicated right now give me a few hours but I do believe there was a mass cover up by church and state about child abuse and neither a political party or the Garda were held accountable only the Church. Looking the other way in those circumstances should be a crime.

Eh, were was the "church" held accountable? According to their law they did nothing wrong. Old and chestnut.

The Rape of Lucretia

myshirt wrote: »

If you are under 35 here, it's really time to get out on the streets and demand reform.

Nonsense. Thats just kidding yourself, and indulging in deluding yourself that you are doing something.
Dont demand reform - get properly involved, not just shouting for someone else to do it - be part of the solution, and reform yourself.

Green Peter

vicwatson wrote:

Met a sargeant I know the other day I was told "its a cultural thing" and the shoulders were shrugged, then I was told "only 2 years to go" (to retirement) - that's also a "cultural thing" - they can't wait to get out the door after 30 years service or aged 50 on full pension. That system is a joke.

Maybe it's because with the ****e he gets it isn't worth it for the money and hassle, funny enough the private sector very often cannot wait to hire these people when they do retire.

mzungu

vicwatson wrote: »

Met a sargeant I know the other day I was told "its a cultural thing" and the shoulders were shrugged, then I was told "only 2 years to go" (to retirement) - that's also a "cultural thing" - they can't wait to get out the door after 30 years service or aged 50 on full pension. That system is a joke.

blade1

gifted wrote: »

"Let's say if 20% were"....

You were going grand there until you started randomly plucking numbers out of the sky lol lol

Ok, so you don't know what a joke is or what if means.
Fair enough.

MyStubbleItches

While I don't agree that it's only under 35s who are affected, I do agree with the rest of that posters argument. It's probably gone beyond the stage that demands action by now. We really are a nation of wimps who just keep putting up with crap, self-serving governance. Every week there's something new coming out that has a direct impact on Joe soap taxpayer, either in our pockets or,like this latest news, our innocent private lives. A lot of other comparable countries would see people on the streets at this stage if not earlier. We just stay bent over. Me included. If someone else (respectable) took a stance then I'd stand beside them in a heartbeat. But like most on here, I'll never make the first move. Which is why Enda, Noreen, et al just keep doing what they want and get away with it. Paddy is a pussy.

lawred2

Barbie! wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-gardai-tapped-the-phones-of-innocent-people-35709010.html

"Gardaí have tapped the phones of innocent members of the public, Independent.ie can reveal today.
Officers routinely bypassed strict protocols to listen in on private conversations for almost a decade, our investigation has found.

However, the State signed off on a series of secret pay-offs for gardaí and officials in a bid to keep a lid on yet another major scandal."

The gardai are lurching from one crisis to the next. I normally don't comment on these but this could affect me.

Who's money was used to pay off the whistleblowers?

Bad enough the illegal wire tapping but the internal pay offs for silence..

How can any government continue to stand over this corrupted institution?

lawred2

myshirt wrote: »

If you are under 35 here, it's really time to get out on the streets and demand reform. You really have been unbelievably screwed over and f#cked by these public servants. I mean seriously screwed. Please, please wake up and realise how this affects your immediate life and your future.

Plain and simple, you can't afford to pay their exorbitant pensions, pay their loans for excesses during the boom (how many guards own second homes), pay these wages that are just nuts, all while this type of sh't is going on. You have your own rent to pay, house to buy, family to build, life to live, or whatever you want to do with yourself. You certainly don't deserve this, because it is the biggest F#CK YOU that has ever been going on when it comes to youth and those under 35. F#ck you. Pay our pensions. Pay our wages. Pay our expenses. Pay our 35 days off. Pay your rent (to us and our generation). Pay the billions of debt we benefited directly from but you didn't. And shut your f#cking mouth. We are going to do whatever we want. We are going to stitch up innocent whistleblowers. Fake driving offences. Ignore rape or sexual assaults if it's someone we know. Beat you down on water charges. Let violence and drugs run riot in your community. Suicides, murders, we don't give a f#ck unless it affects someone important. The message is loud and clear youth of Ireland. Fuuuuuuck you.

If you are under 35 it's really time to don the war paint and storm the Bastille.

35?

lawred2

tea and coffee wrote: »

I'm a good person. I've never covered up abuse.
I know many people who still believe / are mote closely involved with the church who I would vouch are the same.
There are many people who were not involved. The Catholic church has 1.28 billion members ; to say all are abusers or covered it up is pure fallacy.

Could be argued that you're effectively a tacit supporter of an organisation found the world over to be guilty of obscene crimes. Not the greatest thing to be.

robbiezero

GarIT wrote: »

There are only tWo types of people in the RCC, those who commit abuse and those who have covered it up. Not a single good person has ever been catholic

Not a fan of the Catholic Church by any means, but if you had said that on this site about Muslims or Islam you would think it was your birthday with all the cards you would be getting.

Ulysses Gaze

Time to disband the Keystones and start a completely new and modern police force.

Kivaro

shar01 wrote: »

There is a culture of unprofessionalism in the force.

Which is why we need to start from scratch and create a brand new police force. The last straw for me was when the Gardai threatened to strike and had the country in a tizzy fearing a country-wide crime wave apocalypse while the boys in blue held up picket signs.

Accepting that there are dedicated and conscientious Gardai out there doing a great job, unprofessionalism is ingrained in the force as a whole.

Just thinking about the 1,000,000 false breathalyzer tests that were submitted by Gardai; what were they actually doing when they should have been conducting these 1,000,000 tests? Submitting false reports/statistics into the Pulse system took effort and those involved should be fired and prosecuted; otherwise what is the moral of this story?

There seems to be an all out blitz now with checkpoints on the road i.e. after the horse has bolted. They were caught cheating and now they are trying to make amends. I am extremely suspicious on how Garda management will try to tie these new checkpoints and breathalyzer tests into legacy reporting. And I never realised that we had so many Gardai on the force with the amount of checkpoints going on; were Gardai pulled from other areas (e.g. burglary patrols) for this blitz? And what is going on in Templemore; is this where new Gardai are learning how to be bad cops?

I have lost confidence and trust with the Gardai and it will take more than a new commissioner to make up for it. Genuine root and branch change (even though it is a cliché phrase) is required.

BlinkingLights

Wow! Just wow! What kind of weird inter age-group arguments have I just stepped into?!

Plenty of 35+ year olds have had their lives absolutely turned upside down during the 2008 recession/collapse. People lost jobs, businesses closed, debts mounted. Others missed opportunities or lost jobs and are in exactly the same position as those under 35.

I know loads of people in their late 30s now who were basically left with no option but to emigrate in 2008-10.

Even speaking of much older generations, I know couples in their 80s who lost everything as they had money in AIB and Anglo shares and went from what should have been a comfortable retirement to being on just the state pension.

Whoever's posting this nonsense needs to get off their high horse and appreciate that we are *all* in this together and that dividing the country into conveniently sized groups to pit against one another is absolutely counterproductive and very unwelcome.

As for the Gardai : see next on topic post !

Tell me how

lawred2 wrote:

Well you're effectively a tacit supporter of an organisation found the world over to be guilty of obscene crimes. Not the greatest thing to be.

I don't think the RCC was founded or maintained for the specific purpose of abuse but it has been a victim of its own circumstances in that it became both a safe haven and an opportunity for abuse perpetrators.
The former because it prevented societal questions relating to forming and having sexual relationships and the latter because it was acceptable for them to be in a position of isolation and dominance over vulnerable people.
I absolutely agree that it did not handle proven instances of abuse correctly. I think this was because it was commonplace for it not to be challenged in any of its views, financial, political, the role of the woman etc. But I think the percentage of its members who actually committed or condoned such behaviour is very small and is larger that a comprable percentage from other elements of society in part because of the supporting conditions listed above.
I've known a number of "disciples" of the organization, both male and female, and my experience has been that they only behave in accordance with the positive purpose of the organization.

Look at the recent announcements relating to abuse in football. Do you think every club and national team is guilty of this? Do you think every fan should step away from the sport because of this sins of a few?

Curly Judge

I wonder if Chris Patton is still available for hire?

BlinkingLights

I think what we are witnessing is a systemic failure of corporate governance and management structures. Blaming one commissioner for the entire mess is not really going to achieve much.

What is needed is a total review of the entire structure from the bottom up and the top down and an entirely new system put in place.

It would be better for the public as we could regain confidence in the Gardai and it would be much better for the Gardai as they would be working in a far better, healthier, more predictable and more pleasant environment and could get on with their job and know they had a structure that supports them in doing that.

The current situation is bad for both society and members of the force.

The Government really needs to step in and bring in some kind of expertise and best practice from multiple outside sources.

The situation isn't quite as extreme as the old RUC, but it does seem like we might need a reform as dramatic as the PSNI to just sort everything out and start on a new page.

nhunter100

myshirt wrote:

Plain and simple, you can't afford to pay their exorbitant pensions, pay their loans for excesses during the boom (how many guards own second homes), pay these wages that are just nuts, all while this type of sh't is going on. You have your own rent to pay, house to buy, family to build, life to live, or whatever you want to do with yourself. You certainly don't deserve this, because it is the biggest F#CK YOU that has ever been going on when it comes to youth and those under 35. F#ck you. Pay our pensions. Pay our wages. Pay our expenses. Pay our 35 days off. Pay your rent (to us and our generation). Pay the billions of debt we benefited directly from but you didn't. And shut your f#cking mouth. We are going to do whatever we want. We are going to stitch up innocent whistleblowers. Fake driving offences. Ignore rape or sexual assaults if it's someone we know. Beat you down on water charges. Let violence and drugs run riot in your community. Suicides, murders, we don't give a f#ck unless it affects someone important. The message is loud and clear youth of Ireland. Fuuuuuuck you.

You tirade applies equally to over 35's. Good points regardless.

MyStubbleItches

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I think what we are witnessing is a systemic failure of corporate governance and management structures. Blaming one commissioner for the entire mess is not really going to achieve much.

No, but a little bit of honesty from her wouldn't go astray. She didn't get to the top of the organisation while oblivious to all the corruption, secrecy and wrongdoings. I for one have zero respect for or confidence in her. She's part of the problem and at this stage it's quite clear that she certainly isn't willing to be a part of the solution.

inajock

I for one have zero respect or conference in anyone who is a member of An Garda Siochana.Why would I there corrupt.