All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Joe_ Public

blue note wrote: »

It is strange that Waterford were in possession of the ball, he saw a Waterford player commit a red card offence and didn't signal for a free until the Wexford player went over to him. Unless of course he spoke to the ref but didn't signal with the flag? Possibly.

But I would say that he saw something out of the corner of his eye and when the Wexford player went over to him and he saw that the helmet was undone he convinced himself that he clearly saw deBurca pull on his faceguard. And now it's too late and he can't admit that he made a mistake.

That's what I honestly think happened. It makes more sense to me than deBurca actually pulling intentionally on the players faceguard. Of course I could be wrong.

That's fair enough. You are entitled to that reading. It's history now anyway. I think it much more plausible that the linesman has had a fairly good view of the incident - the best view in the house actually - and he's already talking to the referee - assuming they are hooked up by mic which I believe is the case - as the Wexford player is approaching. The available footage is inconclusive either way, but I think that a likely sequence of events. Regardless, I think to suggest he only signals to the ref because the Wexford player asks him to is deeply unfair and almost certainly wrong. Just my view.

I'm not saying the red card was correct, or that I don't have sympathy for Waterford and De Burca, I just believe the questioning of the linesman's professionalism on this to be wrong.

robbiezero

Robson99 wrote: »

It looked from the replays shown that the Wexford player went to the linesman though maybe he had his mind made up anyway
What irritates me most in all this is the worst foul of the lot was the Wexford player completely trying to take TDB out of the American and it going unpunished
Then Gleeson takes Cooney out of it and gets away with a yellow card.
Them two offending incidents are worse than either helmet infringement

Yellow card looked the correct decision to me. Why do you think it should have been red?

Robson99

robbiezero wrote: »

Yellow card looked the correct decision to me. Why do you think it should have been red?

Absolutely no intent to play the ball. Only looked to take the player out. Dangerous play

robbiezero

Robson99 wrote: »

Absolutely no intent to play the ball. Only looked to take the player out. Dangerous play

Didn't look that dangerous to me. Deliberate foul alright, don't think I have ever seen a red card given in hurling for tackles like that.
Would have been a black card in Football, not red.

Robson99

robbiezero wrote: »

Didn't look that dangerous to me. Deliberate foul alright, don't think I have ever seen a red card given in hurling for tackles like that.
Would have been a black card in Football, not red.

Fair enough. It looked dangerous to me

cantwbr1

I was listening to the match on the radio. A number of times John Mullane made reference to the stupid frees Tipp were giving away. Based on this alone I'm not surprised with the free count.
I can't comment on whether the ref let similar frees go on the other side but I think JM commented at some stage that Barry Kelly was consistent

cantwbr1

I was listening to the match on the radio. A number of times John Mullane made reference to the stupid frees Tipp were giving away. Based on this alone I'm not surprised with the free count.
I can't comment on whether the ref let similar frees go on the other side but I think JM commented at some stage that Barry Kelly was consistent

BENDYBINN

Comin up to half time JM also stated that canning should be replaced as he was
obviously carrying an injury and galway couldn't afford to carry him!

Gentleman Off The Pitch

I said wrote: »

keeponhurling wrote: »

Interesting that some Tipp players and the County Board felt a bit hard done by the ref. It was also mentioned on the Sunday Game by Henry Shefflin who said it too.
Barry did enough for KK in the 2012 drawn game

What? Isn't that the game Kelly eagerly awarded Galway a free in the last minute to equalise for the most blatant dive from Davy Glennon?

I said

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

I said wrote: »

What? Isn't that the game Kelly eagerly awarded Galway a free in the last minute to equalise for the most blatant dive from Davy Glennon?

3 frees up to halftime

xl500

Last Handpass to Canning was clearly a Throw right under Linesmans nose SO Technically a foul but Cannings Point from it was fantastic

mountgomery burns

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Comin up to half time JM also stated that canning should be replaced as he was
obviously carrying an injury and galway couldn't afford to carry him!

In fairness he missed two very scoreable frees and was having practically no impact on the game. If it was any other player he would have been taken off. Of course, he more than vindicated staying on the field the full 70 but anybody watching the game would have said he wasn't at the pace of it for most of the match.

letsseehere14

Looking at some of the stats that I could get my hands on this year, is a major part, or possibly the only part of Tipperarys problem their tackling?
Last Sunday they conceded over double the frees Galway did, with Galway scoring double what Tipp did from place balls. Now being honest I didn't see where the double free count came from watching on the tv. Tackling and aggression seemed even to me through out. But you don't see everything on tv.
Against Clare, they conceded 50% more frees than Clare did.
Against Cork, again about 50% more frees conceded and remembering the Wexford league semi final, the free found was about 18 to 3 against Tipperary if I remember correctly.
Seems to be the trend through the year and might have cost them the All Ireland this year.
Tightening up on their tackling over the winter might be a big help to them for next year.

Galway need to remember that they haven't won the big one yet. A great year so far with League and Leinster won. In all honesty that was the stronger of the two semi finals but come September they still have a job to do. It would be a huge setback for them to fall in the final now. Cork are just starting with that team and I feel Waterford are not near as strong as Galway so if they fail this year it will be such a huge blow for that team and could be very yard to recover from.

Corcaigh84

xl500 wrote: »

Last Handpass to Canning was clearly a Throw right under Linesmans nose SO Technically a foul but Cannings Point from it was fantastic

When was the last time you saw a ref at intercounty blow for a throw? Throwing the ball is basically accepted now at the highest level.

It's probably a concession to the rarely punished spare arm foul/tackle. Instead of blowing for this and stopping the game every ten seconds they turn a blind eye to the man throwing the ball to keep possession.

robbiezero

thefloss wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a ref at intercounty blow for a throw? Throwing the ball is basically accepted now at the highest level.

It's probably a concession to the rarely punished spare arm foul/tackle. Instead of blowing for this and stopping the game every ten seconds they turn a blind eye to the man throwing the ball to keep possession.

I would say the majority of handpasses in that game were illegal. Think they need to start cracking down on it again. Very annoying for a lad that is tackling very hard to allow the guy with the ball just throw it to a team mate.

xl500

thefloss wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a ref at intercounty blow for a throw? Throwing the ball is basically accepted now at the highest level.

It's probably a concession to the rarely punished spare arm foul/tackle. Instead of blowing for this and stopping the game every ten seconds they turn a blind eye to the man throwing the ball to keep possession.

Exactly and thats why people get so frustrated at referees if its a rule its a rule or else scrap it

Dyr

thefloss wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a ref at intercounty blow for a throw? Throwing the ball is basically accepted now at the highest level.

It's probably a concession to the rarely punished spare arm foul/tackle. Instead of blowing for this and stopping the game every ten seconds they turn a blind eye to the man throwing the ball to keep possession.

I was showing a lad from South America a game of hurling and he went
"So they can throw the ball too?"
I go "No they have to hit like in hand ball or volleyball"
He goes "Dude, they're just throwing the ball"

I could not disagree tbh

Mantis Toboggan

To be honest hand passes are done so quick these days that it looks like they're throwing it but if we slowed down the video we would see that most hand passes are actually correct.

xl500

Tyson Fury wrote: »

To be honest hand passes are done so quick these days that it looks like they're throwing it but if we slowed down the video we would see that most hand passes are actually correct.

Definitely not the one to Joe Canning for the Winning Point
https://youtu.be/byce79zQM4o

Mantis Toboggan

xl500 wrote: »

Definitely not the one to Joe Canning for the Winning Point
https://youtu.be/byce79zQM4o

Possibly not but I don't think it's possible to tell based on that video.

xl500

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Possibly not but I don't think it's possible to tell based on that video.

It sure is if as you say slow down the video its clear as day he threw it

Corcaigh84

xl500 wrote: »

Exactly and thats why people get so frustrated at referees if its a rule its a rule or else scrap it

Agree with you. Don't know what the answer is really. One difficult (for the players) alternate handpass could be you can only handpass with the alternate hand (the one gripping the hurl). Impossible to throw those ones.

I'm not sure is banning the handpass altogether correct either, nor restricting the amount of times you can handpass, for example a team can't do it twice in a row, as that would be too hard to keep track of.

ForestFire

thefloss wrote: »

Agree with you. Don't know what the answer is really. One difficult (for the players) alternate handpass could be you can only handpass with the alternate hand (the one gripping the hurl). Impossible to throw those ones.

I'm not sure is banning the handpass altogether correct either, nor restricting the amount of times you can handpass, for example a team can't do it twice in a row, as that would be too hard to keep track of.

Put a sensor (accelerometer) in the ball that that can detect the hand "hit" as apposed to a throw.

Ref gets a electric shock every time its activated:D
Should make the game more interesting and the harder the players hit the ball the bigger the shock :eek:.

(Okay they could use a vibration device :rolleyes:)

Robson99

xl500 wrote: »

It sure is if as you say slow down the video its clear as day he threw it

The ref doesn't have the option of slow motion. Very hard to tell in normal time. There are more obvious fouls that they would want to concentrate on first

Robson99

thefloss wrote: »

Agree with you. Don't know what the answer is really. One difficult (for the players) alternate handpass could be you can only handpass with the alternate hand (the one gripping the hurl). Impossible to throw those ones.

I'm not sure is banning the handpass altogether correct either, nor restricting the amount of times you can handpass, for example a team can't do it twice in a row, as that would be too hard to keep track of.

It speeds the game up. Saves s lot of bunching

KrustyUCC

That's a difficult issue for referees

Lets the game flow etc leads to not blowing for fouls

However blowing for fouls 'spoils the game' if too many fouls and the ref prob won't get a big game again

Hard to square the two. Do we want referees to apply the rules or not?

0byme75341jo28

KrustyUCC wrote: »

However blowing for fouls 'spoils the game' if too many fouls and the ref prob won't get a big game again

Hard to square the two. Do we want referees to apply the rules or not?

I don't think people do tbh. Between illegal handpasses and blatant overcarrying referees probably leave 20+ "technically" illegal fouls go.

The rules need modernising in my opinion, we want to have open, flowing games of hurling but ultimately the rules are rules and should be treated as such. What could be done to reconcile the implementation of the handpass and overcarrying rules with flowing games of hurling? Under the current rules it's nearly impossible for that to happen.

HurlingRanker

The handpass as a skill is dead, has long been replaced with what at best can be described as rolling the sliothar off the palm, at worst is just blatant throwing.

I love hurling far more than football, but I do feel it gets an easy ride compared to football, if there was a rule being as blatantly and routinely flouted in football the likes of O'Rourke/Spillane/Brolly would be screaming blue murder. Pundits and critics it seems are happy to turn a blind eye to certain things in hurling, and overcarrying and "hand-passing" are routinely overlooked.

I hate blaming referees, but I think an overhaul is required in terms of the policing of handpassing, giving players the benefit of the doubt isn't good enough. Two questions to be asked. 1 - Was the sliothar released? 2 - Was there a definitive striking action between the sliothar and the palm thereafter? If the answers to either of those questions are no, maybe, or even probably; blow the whistle, free against.

I know that would cause uproar, but a lot of the hand passes are just taking the piss.

xl500

HurlingRanker wrote: »

The handpass as a skill is dead, has long been replaced with what at best can be described as rolling the sliothar off the palm, at worst is just blatant throwing.

I love hurling far more than football, but I do feel it gets an easy ride compared to football, if there was a rule being as blatantly and routinely flouted in football the likes of O'Rourke/Spillane/Brolly would be screaming blue murder. Pundits and critics it seems are happy to turn a blind eye to certain things in hurling, and overcarrying and "hand-passing" are routinely overlooked.

I hate blaming referees, but I think an overhaul is required in terms of the policing of handpassing, giving players the benefit of the doubt isn't good enough. Two questions to be asked. 1 - Was the sliothar released? 2 - Was there a definitive striking action between the sliothar and the palm thereafter? If the answers to either of those questions are no, maybe, or even probably; blow the whistle, free against.

I know that would cause uproar, but a lot of the hand passes are just taking the piss.

I agree totally only reason the throwing is going on so blatantly is because players know they will get away with it If refs enforced rule there would be uproar initally but very quickly players would adjust

I remember a few years back the handpass rule was enforced much more and as for overcarrying dont get me started

Just look at youtube clips of "The Dodger" and count the steps always drove me crazy

Robson99

xl500 wrote: »

I agree totally only reason the throwing is going on so blatantly is because players know they will get away with it If refs enforced rule there would be uproar initally but very quickly players would adjust

Remember a few years ago when Johnny Flaherty threw ahem hand passed the ball into the Galway net. Imagine calling a free there