All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

The Golden Miller

Condenser wrote: »

We'll see how Cork, if they beat Waterford, handle that teak tough Galway back six. Tipp have the best forwards in the country and played excellently today but the Galway back six were definitely getting the better of exchanges.

The tipp today was 2 levels above what we've seen from them all year but still lost to a Galway side with a misfiring forward line.

Cork will struggle to overcome the size disadvantage and Galway have the hurlers all over the pitch to match them for skill and speed. The big bonus for cork is their inate belief that they will win every all Ireland they play. Galway will suffer more from nerves due to the weight of history and recent past failures.

I don't see how you can claim Tipp were two levels above where they were all season based on today's performance. Certainly better than they were in the league but still struggling. You could also argue it's a case of Galway not being as far ahead of the rest as everyone else thought. As you say a big bonus for Cork is their mentality, but what gets overlooked the most is their intricate play and passing.

munsterlegend

jr86 wrote: »

as well as serious momentum. Very similar to 99 in a way. Like mushrooms and all that!

Yes a lot of young lads who while winning nothing are very good players unlike 99 new players who had won everything underage. This Cork team will be very hard to beat as have a great team spirit and good backroom team.

Condenser

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I don't see how you can claim Tipp were two levels above where they were all season based on today's performance. Certainly better than they were in the league but still struggling. You could also argue it's a case of Galway not being as far ahead of the rest as everyone else thought. As you say a big bonus for Cork is their mentality, but what gets overlooked the most is their intricate play and passing.

Every other game tipp didn't show up or went missing for large periods. That didn't happen today plus the aggression and work rate were miles ahead. Unrecognisable from the cork game and well above the CLARE game.

Corks passing is accurate but so is everyone's when they're not under huge pressure. Galway came in cold today and had conceded 5 before they got going. A soft goal on top of that and still got the win. I thought they were very impressive especially with a few key players like Canning not really hitting stride.

Burial.

Mahony0509 wrote: »

As a Cork fan I don't fear Galway at all. Fairly certain Damian Cahalane could handle Joe Canning no bother, he hates being physically challenged. The player to avoid is the number 6 for Galway, Cork never go through the middle which helps massively.
Either way, Waterford is up first and I fully expect just as good a game as today.

Cahalane won't be marking Canning, Canning hasn't played in the full all year. Even if he was, Canning would make sh*t of him. Cahalane is a tidy size but he's no Paudie Maher. I'd expect Spillane to do a man marking job as he's built like a sh*thouse and a sticky defender and maybe have someone like Luke Meade play even deeper to cover around. Joe Canning was nowhere near full fit today, you can tell that knee is still mending and still put in a huge shift.

The Golden Miller

Condenser wrote: »

Every other game tipp didn't show up or went missing for large periods. That didn't happen today plus the aggression and work rate were miles ahead. Unrecognisable from the cork game and well above the CLARE game.

Corks passing is accurate but so is everyone's when they're not under huge pressure. Galway came in cold today and had conceded 5 before they got going. A soft goal on top of that and still got the win. I thought they were very impressive especially with a few key players like Canning not really hitting stride.

True, Tipp were a bit better than they have been all season but are still struggling in general and still aren't the team they were last year. Galway were better today and the soft goal probably made it closer than it should have been. The way I see it is a struggling Tipp still managed to push this Galway team to the pin of their collar. If Cork make it to the final, Galway will be facing a team a level above what they played today. Maybe not a team a level above in terms of individual quality, but certainly in mentality, technical skill and link up passing.

marvin80

The Golden Miller wrote: »

On another note, Canning is just brilliant. Easily the best player of the last 30 years imo, and arguably the best of all time. Does things consistently that no other player can do. Shefflin was brilliant, but simply not on Canning's level

Go back to sleep. I'm a Tipp man and I can appreciate how good Shefflin was, a phenomenal athlete and hurler, we'll unlikely see the likes of him again in our lifetime.

Condenser

The Golden Miller wrote: »

True, Tipp were a bit better than they have been all season but are still struggling in general and still aren't the team they were last year. Galway were better today and the soft goal probably made it closer than it should have been. The way I see it is a struggling Tipp still managed to push this Galway team to the pin of their collar. If Cork make it to the final, Galway will be facing a team a level above what they played today. Maybe not a team a level above in terms of individual quality, but certainly in mentality, technical skill and link up passing.

I can't agree that Cork are operating a level above what we saw today. There's no evidence for that. IMO either team today would have put Cork to the sword.
Cork in a final are a different prospect due to the mentality we both alluded to.

Condenser

marvin80 wrote: »

Go back to sleep. I'm a Tipp man and I can appreciate how good Shefflin was, a phenomenal athlete and hurler, we'll unlikely see the likes of him again in our lifetime.

Two very different players. Shefflin played at a consistently high level of excellence that no one can match.
Canning however has consistently had moments of brilliance that I've never seen from another player.

Django99

Since 2012 Galway have been knocked out by

2012 - Kilkenny in All Ireland final replay
2013 - Clare who won the All Ireland
2014- Tipp after losing a 6 point lead with 20 mins to go, who were beaten in replay in the All Ireland
2015- Kilkenny in All Ireland
2016- Tipp in semi final who won final easily

They've only been beaten by the best, or very close to best in the case of 2014, in 5 years. Quite a high level of consistency.

This rivalry with Tipp for the past 4 seasons has been a cracker, 2 wins each and although the biggest margin was 2014, Galway completely collapsed at the end of that game and Tipp outscored them by 15 points in the last 20 minutes. Other than that all one point games and all very high quality games.

I would have to make them warm favourites for the final regardless who they play, for me they have a better quality 15 and a deeper bench than either Cork or Waterford.

Cork have been very good so far and have played with consistency, while Waterford have shown some signs of going out of games for periods, as well as a system which really needs them to hit the front early to be effective.

Galway will be very happy to have won with some of the forwards not having great games. Mannion and Flynn in particular have potential to play much better. The backs gave up goal chances, but in general their defence has been very secure this year and I think they are good enough to keep either Cork or Waterfords forwards at bay.

Either way two more good games to look forward to in what has been a very good championship so far.

Right2Write

Great to see Galway win. Hope Cork can do likewise. Don't like this 'backdoor' system where beaten teams come back for another bite of the cherry.

lawred2

The Golden Miller wrote: »

True, Tipp were a bit better than they have been all season but are still struggling in general and still aren't the team they were last year. Galway were better today and the soft goal probably made it closer than it should have been. The way I see it is a struggling Tipp still managed to push this Galway team to the pin of their collar. If Cork make it to the final, Galway will be facing a team a level above what they played today. Maybe not a team a level above in terms of individual quality, but certainly in mentality, technical skill and link up passing.

Cork a level above? Jeez talk about getting ahead of yourself.

Based on what exactly?

The Golden Miller

Condenser wrote: »

I can't agree that Cork are operating a level above what we saw today. There's no evidence for that. IMO either team today would have put Cork to the sword.
Cork in a final are a different prospect due to the mentality we both alluded to.

Maybe Cork made Munster look fairly easy? Down through they years they always seem to produce very "wristy" and silky hurlers who link up so well (moreso than any other county I would say). I think this year it's as if they have controlled the tempo of each game with their passing, to the point they were comfortable even when teams were within 2-3 points of them. Almost like a hurling version of Barcelona

It will be very interesting if Cork do get to the final and do turn out to be over estimated by the likes of myself. They'd still have no qualms about getting over the line if they could just stick in there with Galway. I think everyone wants to see how Galway will react once the game is in the melting pot. No disrespect to Waterford, but Galway v Cork is the one I'd say everyone wants to see

The Golden Miller

lawred2 wrote: »

Cork a level above? Jeez talk about getting ahead of yourself.

Based on what exactly?

I never said they were a level above in individual talent or better forwards. A level above in more intricate link up play and mentality, the impact of the former overlooked considerably imo

ForestFire

munsterlegend wrote: »

Not in all Ireland finals.

Whoever comes through Galway will be favourites.

Galway have never beaten Waterford in championship hurling.
Therefore they have never won a final against Waterford.
And by that reasoning Waterford have won or drawn all final matches between the two?

Is this really the reasoning you are trying to use as to who Galway would prefer? All Ireland final results only?

For the record I think they will be slight favorites (Probable large favorites in the media), but again neither Cork or Waterford will fear them.

Realt Dearg Sec

Condenser wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I dunno, Galway full back line looked iffy in the first half today I thought.

Look what they're marking. Two of the three full back line could be in for man of the match. Burke was excellent on Callanan and Touhy was absolutely fantastic today. Its not like they had to mind some mugs for 70 mins

I know but I'm just saying they looked like there are serious problems. Just looking at the goal right now as it happens and they were all over the place, and two minutes on they nearly conceded another bad one to calinan only for blind luck. Probably a thing where they had been playing against bad teams with sweepers up until then, and they got their act together in the second half, but they ride their luck at times today is all I mean.

Burial.

I think Canning is definitely up there with the best ever. Deadly accuracy from frees and play, revolutionised the sideline cut as a scoring method, and has a huge strike off both sides. That point off his left today without looking at the posts shows his ability, I don't think I could name another player who could do that. Lethal from 21 yarders. He was a goal machine when played inside, used catch a huge amount of ball when lashed up to him as well. He's the fourth all time top scorer ever and less than 40 points off second. Shown his versatility by dropping deeper and becoming a valuable playmaker. His vision is sick too. Remember that backwards hand pass those years ago? Absolutely sick. Only weakness he has is that he doesn't have an All Ireland. As a Cork man I'd love for him to win one, and this would probably be the most fitting year.

And let's not forget for so many years Canning was in poor teams where he had a ridiculous weight on his shoulders. Lads like Henry were blessed with obscene talent all around him for years and years. That's no knock on Henry, he was unreal but it always helps to have fellow all time great around you sharing the load.

Ability wise I'd have no problem with saying Joe is the best ever.

Mulbert

Burial. wrote:

That point off his left today without looking at the posts shows his ability, I don't think I could name another player who could do that.

Austin Gleeson, there's a name!

marvin80

Burial. wrote: »

And let's not forget for so many years Canning was in poor teams where he had a ridiculous weight on his shoulders. Lads like Henry were blessed with obscene talent all around him for years and years. That's no knock on Henry, he was unreal but it always helps to have fellow all time great around you sharing the load.

Ability wise I'd have no problem with saying Joe is the best ever.

Eoin Kelly was in a similar situation (poor team) and in my biased opinion(!!) he's ahead of Canning ability wise.

I'm not disagreeing with the statements about the class of Canning, just disagreeing with this statement:

"Easily the best player of the last 30 years imo, and arguably the best of all time."

Burial.

Mulbert wrote: »

Austin Gleeson, there's a name!

Up there ability wise for sure but I dunno could he do that. Fierce puck of a ball tho for such a slight built lad. Flawless technique.

Burial.

marvin80 wrote: »

Eoin Kelly was in a similar situation (poor team) and in my biased opinion(!!) he's ahead of Canning ability wise.

I'm not disagreeing with the statements about the class of Canning, just disagreeing with this statement:

"Easily the best player of the last 30 years imo, and arguably the best of all time."

What could Kelly do with a ball that Canning couldn't do or what could he do better than Joe? Genuinely interested. Kelly was my favourite hurler growing up for what it's worth.

ForestFire

marvin80 wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with the statements about the class of Canning, just disagreeing with this statement:

"Easily the best player of the last 30 years imo, and arguably the best of all time."

Totally agreed and a few more notable names:-

DJ Carey
Henry Sheflin
Eoin kelly
Brian Corcoran
Tommy Walsh
Ken McGrath
Tony Brown
Paul Flynn

You could add Joe to that list but to say easily the best, I could not agree

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

blackcard

As a neutral (kk) at todays match, credit to both teams for a full blooded exciting match. I thought Galway just about deserved to win even though they they seemed to get the marginal decisions from Barry Kelly imo. Tipp just seemed to be that bit off from last year eg Bonnar and Seamus Callinan but it shows how hard it is to win back to back AI's. Great to see a match with no sweepers. Pitch was greasy which led to a few errors but effort was great

Django99

ForestFire wrote: »

Totally agreed and a few more notable names:-

DJ Carey
Henry Sheflin
Eoin kelly
Brian Corcoran
Tommy Walsh
Ken McGrath
Tony Brown
Paul Flynn

You could add Joe to that list but to say easily the best, I could not agree

Just to add one more who I hope you forgot, JJ Delaney. In my opionion the best defender of all time, remarkably consistent for over a decade and you could count on one hand the amount of bad performances he's had, while you could sit all day thinking of games where he was brilliant.

Mulbert

Ah here, u think Assie is a 'slight built lad'? Have u been reading Gulliver's Travels recently?

TheRiverman

Django99 wrote: »

Just to add one more who I hope you forgot, JJ Delaney. In my opionion the best defender of all time, remarkably consistent for over a decade and you could count on one hand the amount of bad performances he's had, while you could sit all day thinking of games where he was brilliant.

Brian Whelehan wasn't too bad either.

ForestFire

Django99 wrote: »

Just to add one more who I hope you forgot, JJ Delaney. In my opionion the best defender of all time, remarkably consistent for over a decade and you could count on one hand the amount of bad performances he's had, while you could sit all day thinking of games where he was brilliant.

Oh I'm sure there are a good few more you could add from kilkenny, but as a Waterford man that is all I could bring myself to add to list:o

The Golden Miller

I should clarify what I mean when I said Canning was easily the best player of the last 30 years. In terms of pure natural ability, and regularly reproducing that ability at a pretty consistent level to do things on the pitch I've never seen others do. When he's at his best and in full flight there is simply no one on his level, nor has there been for as long as I can remember. Can't remember the likes of Christy Ring playing so hard to compare that far back

Mulbert

The Golden Miller wrote:

I should clarify what I mean when I said Canning was easily the best player of the last 30 years. In terms of pure natural ability, and regularly reproducing that ability at a pretty consistent level to do things on the pitch I've never seen others do. When he's at his best and in full flight there is simply no one on his level, nor has there been for as long as I can remember. Can't remember the likes of Christy Ring playing so hard to compare that far back

Thanks for clarifying by repeating yourself !

ForestFire

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I should clarify what I mean when I said Canning was easily the best player of the last 30 years...........

When he's at his best and in full flight there is simply no one on his level, nor has there been for as long as I can remember.

'Easily' and 'when' don't really work well in the same argument your putting forward.

I don't think anyone doubts the skill of Joe and his standing as among the best, but he has had his quite matches during the years also and plenty more players that where on a par and better.