2018 Leaf

Mickeroo

creedp wrote: »

If the grants go the pretax price will reduce as no one in their right mind would pay the current pretax price - €50k for a Kona!

Guaranteed. The car companies see the grants as free money on top of the on the road price not a discount to the customer.

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

creedp wrote: »

If the grants go the pretax price will reduce as no one in their right mind would pay the current pretax price - €50k for a Kona!

Guaranteed. The car companies see the grants as free money on top of the on the road price not a discount to the customer.

Of course

Its a terrible system

Should be no grant or at least a sliding scale one ie under €25,000 get €10,000, under €35,000 gets €5000 etc

Besides the battery about €5000 max for a Leaf, everything else is cheap to produce

Electric motor for a Leaf is much cheaper than a diesel engine etc

Manufacturers just taking the piss

Skoda have the eCitigo with same size battery as Leaf for €16,000 after grant arriving soon

Cheapskates buying a Leaf for cheap running costs willl have been fleeced paying over €30, 000 for one and the Kona lol 😂

Salesman who let me test drive the Kona said you'd have to be off your head to pay €39,200 for one, he couldn't believe people were buying them

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Of course

Its a terrible system

Should be no grant or at least a sliding scale one ie under €25,000 get €10,000, under €35,000 gets €5000 etc

Besides the battery about €5000 max for a Leaf, everything else is cheap to produce

Electric motor for a Leaf is much cheaper than a diesel engine etc

Manufacturers just taking the piss

Skoda have the eCitigo with same size battery as Leaf for €16,000 after grant arriving soon

Cheapskates buying a Leaf for cheap running costs willl have been fleeced paying over €30, 000 for one and the Kona lol 😂

Salesman who let me test drive the Kona said you'd have to be off your head to pay €39,200 for one, he couldn't believe people were buying them

You keep posting the same stuff, every thread.....

Please explain how you know the price of batteries?

Why exactly would a salesman tell you the car is overpriced? It’s his job to sell the car....not to tell the customer not to buy

Old diesel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

Of course

Its a terrible system

Should be no grant or at least a sliding scale one ie under €25,000 get €10,000, under €35,000 gets €5000 etc

Besides the battery about €5000 max for a Leaf, everything else is cheap to produce

Electric motor for a Leaf is much cheaper than a diesel engine etc

Manufacturers just taking the piss

Skoda have the eCitigo with same size battery as Leaf for €16,000 after grant arriving soon

Cheapskates buying a Leaf for cheap running costs willl have been fleeced paying over €30, 000 for one and the Kona lol 😂

Salesman who let me test drive the Kona said you'd have to be off your head to pay €39,200 for one, he couldn't believe people were buying them

You keep posting the same stuff, every thread.....

Please explain how you know the price of batteries?

Why exactly would a salesman tell you the car is overpriced? It’s his job to sell the car....not to tell the customer not to buy

Salesman trying to suggest a different car at the time would be a possible way of a salesman saying a Kona EV is overpriced.

It's his job to sell A car not necessarily the one you originally asked about.

liamog

Old diesel wrote: »

Salesman trying to suggest a different car at the time would be a possible way of a salesman saying a Kona EV is overpriced.

It's his job to sell A car not necessarily the one you originally asked about.

Isn't the salesmans job to sell the one with the most commission? EVs are in such high demand there is probably no incentives at all.

Shefwedfan

Old diesel wrote: »

Salesman trying to suggest a different car at the time would be a possible way of a salesman saying a Kona EV is overpriced.

It's his job to sell A car not necessarily the one you originally asked about.

im more interested in this incredible knowledge of battery costs etc.....

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Salesman trying to suggest a different car at the time would be a possible way of a salesman saying a Kona EV is overpriced.

It's his job to sell A car not necessarily the one you originally asked about.

im more interested in this incredible knowledge of battery costs etc.....

Its common knowledge prices are near €100kWh for autogiants

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its common knowledge prices are near €100kWh for autogiants

Source? I only ask as you seem to post on every single thread about this

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its common knowledge prices are near €100kWh for autogiants

Source? I only ask as you seem to post on every single thread about this

2 years ago Audi claimed

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/333577/audi-claims-ev-battery-costs-of-around-100-kwh-112-kwh/amp/

Envision who make Leaf batteries are claiming 50 per kWh in 2025

https://pushevs.com/2019/05/07/envision-aesc-to-release-ncm-811-battery-cells-next-year/

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

Of course

Its a terrible system

Should be no grant or at least a sliding scale one ie under €25,000 get €10,000, under €35,000 gets €5000 etc

Besides the battery about €5000 max for a Leaf, everything else is cheap to produce

Electric motor for a Leaf is much cheaper than a diesel engine etc

Manufacturers just taking the piss

Skoda have the eCitigo with same size battery as Leaf for €16,000 after grant arriving soon

Cheapskates buying a Leaf for cheap running costs willl have been fleeced paying over €30, 000 for one and the Kona lol 😂

Salesman who let me test drive the Kona said you'd have to be off your head to pay €39,200 for one, he couldn't believe people were buying them

Why exactly would a salesman tell you the car is overpriced? It’s his job to sell the car....not to tell the customer not to buy

He knew I had know interest in paying €40,000 for one and just gave his honest opinion on them being way overpriced, which was fair enough

He did say they all love taking it out for a spin, acceleration was fierce and they were the future once price down

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

2 years ago Audi claimed

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/333577/audi-claims-ev-battery-costs-of-around-100-kwh-112-kwh/amp/

Envision who make Leaf batteries are claiming 50 per kWh in 2025

https://pushevs.com/2019/05/07/envision-aesc-to-release-ncm-811-battery-cells-next-year/

You said it was common knowledge but post two of the most random articles I’ve seen?

Proper source?

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mike9832 wrote: »

2 years ago Audi claimed

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/333577/audi-claims-ev-battery-costs-of-around-100-kwh-112-kwh/amp/

Envision who make Leaf batteries are claiming 50 per kWh in 2025

https://pushevs.com/2019/05/07/envision-aesc-to-release-ncm-811-battery-cells-next-year/

You said it was common knowledge but post two of the most random articles I’ve seen?

Proper source?

The pic is from VW and envision cost is from CEOs mouth

Do you want a receipt or something?

liamog

That's a target projection, BNEF pegged pack prices at $176/kWh for 2018 with projections. If the numbers hold it means a 2019 battery pack is around $140/kWh and around $110/kwh in 2020.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

That's a target projection, BNEF pegged pack prices at $176/kWh for 2018 with projections. If the numbers hold it means a 2019 battery pack is around $140/kWh and around $110/kwh in 2020.

For plebs maybe true

The likes of VW it will be much less

GM were paying 145/kWh in 2016 for the Bolt

That tells you what the giants pay

unkel

There just isn't anywhere near enough battery production capacity worldwide to bring costs down enough. And why would a manufacturer command less money than someone is willing to pay?

Since sometime last year the whole world knows all cars will be EV soon

demand>supply

so prices go up

The cheapest Ioniq EV (from 2017) is GBP23k on autotrader.uk, the biggest site in the UK. That is ridiculous money. I paid less than that for my Ioniq on the road with metallic paint brand new well over 2 years ago.

I have looked at BMW i3 too. A bit over a year ago you could sometimes pick one up at around GBP10k. Now the cheapest one is GBP14k. Mad!

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

For plebs maybe true

The likes of VW it will be much less

GM were paying 145/kWh in 2016 for the Bolt

That tells you what the giants pay

Based on what? Are you part of the procurement for VW ? GM?
Every thread your posting the same stuff, the links above are rubbish and you know it. Vague projections. Also the Audi link is not the CEO

Projections are exactly that, they might or might not happen....it’s clear the reduction in the cost of batteries has not happened. Plus providers are buying from the safe trade so that means the cheapest stuff is not available

So again, apart from vague projection link, where are you getting this information?

It should be easy to find as it’s common knowledge

Soarer

All I (and the dog in the street) know is Nissan use Tesco batteries.

ethernet

Soarer wrote: »

All I (and the dog in the street) know is Nissan use Tesco batteries.

So Tesco has a holding in AESC now? News to me

sk8board

KCross wrote: »

You'll be forever waiting then, because EV's are going to be incrementally improving for many many years. I'd say its almost certain there will be a battery breakthrough in the next decade. How long that will take to filter down to affordable cars is another guess.



The risk there is that by the time you move, the grants will be rolling back.

If a BEV available today suits you, buy it, would be my opinion.
If they dont suit you, then wait and cross your fingers that one is available before the grants roll back.

Well let’s face it, I won’t be waiting ‘forever’, but I accept your point. The cars are iterating at a huge pace though - the niro is better already than the Kona and the leaf gen3 will be better than the niro, and the vw iD will be better again, and the model 3 will be better than them all.

Re the grants, I think it’s a very short sighted way to spend so much money on changing a car, purely for its new tech. “spend €50k on a small suv Hyundai Kona and we’ll give you €10k in grants” .... I wouldn’t pay the €40k for a Kona if there was another €10k in the glovebox, EV or not. The value offering is awful.

As for buying an EV today that suits my needs - I’m not sure there are many new options that I can simply buy and drive away today, or even in the next month.

It’s that rarity that’s driving the prices of new and residuals, not their ability.

The next models from the next batch of manufacturers will be markedly better, we all know that.

It’s not the same as the new c class merc being 5% better than the outgoing one. This is a whole new market.

DeanH544

Not sure if anyone here might need it as I imagine most have it already, but, I have one of the bluetooth OBD scanners here laying around now. Decided not to go for the Leaf again. So if anyone wants it they're more than welcome to it as I have no use for it. Works perfectly with the leaf spy app (for the one time I got to use it). Based in Kilcock, North Kildare. Just to clarify - for free of course.

Silent Running

sk8board wrote: »

Well let’s face it, I won’t be waiting ‘forever’, but I accept your point. The cars are iterating at a huge pace though - the niro is better already than the Kona and the leaf gen3 will be better than the niro, and the vw iD will be better again, and the model 3 will be better than them all.

Re the grants, I think it’s a very short sighted way to spend so much money on changing a car, purely for its new tech. “spend €50k on a small suv Hyundai Kona and we’ll give you €10k in grants” .... I wouldn’t pay the €40k for a Kona if there was another €10k in the glovebox, EV or not. The value offering is awful.

As for buying an EV today that suits my needs - I’m not sure there are many new options that I can simply buy and drive away today, or even in the next month.

It’s that rarity that’s driving the prices of new and residuals, not their ability.

The next models from the next batch of manufacturers will be markedly better, we all know that.

It’s not the same as the new c class merc being 5% better than the outgoing one. This is a whole new market.

I highly doubt it. Smaller battery, no liquid cooling. Chademo.

Soarer

DeanH544 wrote: »

Not sure if anyone here might need it as I imagine most have it already, but, I have one of the bluetooth OBD scanners here laying around now. Decided not to go for the Leaf again. So if anyone wants it they're more than welcome to it as I have no use for it. Works perfectly with the leaf spy app (for the one time I got to use it). Based in Kilcock, North Kildare. Just to clarify - for free of course.

Fair play.

Maybe donate it to Boards for potential owners to borrow when viewing Leafs?

Superfoods

I am wondering...

I was looking at SV Premium, but if I went SV. Do they have many differences between the spec? the Nissan website is awful.

From what I can see
Round view monitor - don't need
intelligent driver alert? not sure what this is
Moving object - don't need
Front & Rear parking sensor - the base has reverse camera so can probably get away with that

Apart from that are they the same?

Soarer

Superfoods wrote: »

I am wondering...

I was looking at SV Premium, but if I went SV. Do they have many differences between the spec? the Nissan website is awful.

From what I can see
Round view monitor - don't need
intelligent driver alert? not sure what this is
Moving object - don't need
Front & Rear parking sensor - the base has reverse camera so can probably get away with that

Apart from that are they the same?

Anybody’s that’s used the 360 degree camera found it very hard to move away from it afterwards.

Superfoods

Soarer wrote: »

Anybody’s that’s used the 360 degree camera found it very hard to move away from it afterwards.

Never used it, current have a Galaxy so the Leaf would be tiny for parking in comparison. I just have the beep on the Galaxy

icom

Superfoods wrote: »

I am wondering...

I was looking at SV Premium, but if I went SV. Do they have many differences between the spec? the Nissan website is awful.

From what I can see
Round view monitor - don't need
intelligent driver alert? not sure what this is
Moving object - don't need
Front & Rear parking sensor - the base has reverse camera so can probably get away with that

Apart from that are they the same?

I was thinking the same, but in the end went for the SV with coldpack for an extra 400 euro. Great on winter mornings to have the heated steering wheel and the heated seats if required. Also the 16 inch tyres will be a lot cheaper to replace when the time comes.

Superfoods

icom wrote: »

I was thinking the same, but in the end went for the SV with coldpack for an extra 400 euro. Great on winter mornings to have the heated steering wheel and the heated seats if required. Also the 16 inch tyres will be a lot cheaper to replace when the time comes.

Sorry I will be including the cold pack.....

Adaptive cruise and lane assist are the main requirements which I think is on the SV?

Soarer

LED headlights?

Superfoods

Soarer wrote: »

LED headlights?

Don't have them on galaxy, wife has them on her car. Would be in the "nice to have bracket" but I am trying to keep within a specific budget....mostly driving in city so street lights anyway

Soarer

Well if it's mostly city driving, chances are you don't need the range of the L40.

So maybe save yourself a few quid and get a top spec L30?