2018 Leaf

who_ru

cros13 wrote: »

Pretty much similar to the current pricing. Any 60kWh option coming later in 2018 would be priced higher than the current Leaf though.



Just a 30-40% higher capacity battery and some minor interior changes.

In terms of the Leaf there doesn't seem much point in buying a 24Kwh then, or perhaps a 30Kwh as they will be much more difficult to sell on in the future, if there's a 60Kwh on the market next year.

The 2018 Ioniq might be priced better, has better aerodynamics and looks way better.

I have an 8yr old Mazda 6 petrol, and I'm torn between going with something like a new Ford Focus 1ltr Ecoboost or wait for the new Leaf or Ioniq. A 30Kwh Leaf would suit my needs but future resale value could be a major issue.

The Zoe is just too small for me and the interior is total underwhelming.

cros13

who_ru wrote: »

In terms of the Leaf there doesn't seem much point in buying a 24Kwh then, or perhaps a 30Kwh as they will be much more difficult to sell on in the future, if there's a 60Kwh on the market next year.

I disagree, except for the very newest cars, used 24 and 30kWh Leafs will likely appreciate in value (we're already seeing this creep up from the bottom of the market as supply dries up). There's already a lack of supply in the used market and that's going to worsen with the halo products of the new 40-60kWh cars.
Supply of the new cars is going to be restricted due to lack of batteries even with Nissan's comparatively strong position with the ex-AESC battery plants beside their production facilities.

This is a very different market than the combustion car market. It's growing quickly and people are buying into the market at multiple price levels.
We have an EU market that could easily have demand for 10% EV sales next year but with battery production only able to provide for cars to meet a third of the demand.

It takes up to 2 years to bring new production online and the investment needed to meet the demand hasn't been made.
We've got two new factories opening in europe this year, LG Chem (Poland) and Samsung SDI (Hungary).

• Between the two of them they will produce enough cells for around two to three hundred thousand 60kWh class EVs/annum in 2018.... at best... out of a european car market that produces 15 million cars a year.
• And that's if all their production is concentrated on BEVs and not the reality that it will be shared with plug-in hybrid production.
• And that's also peak production... which they may not reach before mid-2018.
• And many of the cells produced will go into cars to be exported outside europe.
• Asia and the US are actually in a worse position... with the exception of Tesla's gigafactory they have even less production coming online.

So... there's a lot of factors that would point toward every major manufacturer (incl. Tesla... but not due to batteries) being production constrained next year.

Daimler and Volkswagen have about 1-1.5 million cars worth of battery production coming in 2019, but for 2018 they are screwed.

who_ru wrote: »

The 2018 Ioniq might be priced better, has better aerodynamics and looks way better.

But will be even more impacted by a lack of batteries. The current Ioniq is on a 6-month lead from the factory because Hyundai can't get enough batteries from LG Chem.
The new battery is from LG Chem as well and LG is having even more issues supplying cells for that chemistry (it's a similar chemistry to the Bolt & Zoe 40)

who_ru wrote: »

I have an 8yr old Mazda 6 petrol, and I'm torn between going with something like a new Ford Focus 1ltr Ecoboost or wait for the new Leaf or Ioniq. A 30Kwh Leaf would suit my needs but future resale value could be a major issue.

Beyond the usual year 1 depreciation I don't see depreciation being an issue. Depending on you situation I'd lean towards putting a deposit on a 28kWh Ioniq now rather than waiting.

who_ru wrote: »

The Zoe is just too small for me and the interior is total underwhelming.

Agreed, the Zoe is a bit on the small size (it's built on the same line as the new Micra after all) and the plastics in the interior a bit cheap.

BoatMad

I fully agree with Cross. Fear of depreciation. Has been partially based on a recent glut of uk 2nd leafs coming of PCP all together. That source is drying up.

The likihoid is that increasing demand amongst punters for EVs will mean increased 2nd hand demand , with more punters entering a growing market that will lead to an increase in the value of 2nd hand.

Only the top of the market will be chasing the bright and shiny latest tech.

who_ru

BoatMad wrote: »

I fully agree with Cross. Fear of depreciation. Has been partially based on a recent glut of uk 2nd leafs coming of PCP all together. That source is drying up.

The likihoid is that increasing demand amongst punters for EVs will mean increased 2nd hand demand , with more punters entering a growing market that will lead to an increase in the value of 2nd hand.

Only the top of the market will be chasing the bright and shiny latest tech.

Realistically would I be better advised to buy a 2017 Leaf and get the free home charger installed or buy a 2016 Leaf and get the charger installed myself.

The Leaf I could get pretty much straight away but the Ioniq won't be available until November apparently.

cros13

If you want to buy right now and wouldn't mind a white Ioniq you can get one of the few stock or ex-demos going around.

If you don't mind waiting either wait it out until the frankfurt auto show (September 12 to September 24) and see if any of the new models tickle your fancy enough to be worth going on a waiting list.

If you want to save some money a 161 30kWh Leaf would be a good buy (six and a half years of powertrain warranty left ). And that option will still be there in September.

Don't make the decision based on "free" home charge points... they're not that expensive and the ABLs ESB install aren't that good.
It's a nice bonus if you get it anyway but shouldn't factor into your decision. Also they'll be all gone in the next month or two.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

If you want to buy right now and wouldn't mind a white Ioniq you can get one of the few stock or ex-demos going around.

If you don't mind waiting either wait it out until the frankfurt auto show (September 12 to September 24) and see if any of the new models tickle your fancy enough to be worth going on a waiting list.

If you want to save some money a 161 30kWh Leaf would be a good buy (six and a half years of powertrain warranty left ). And that option will still be there in September.

Don't make the decision based on "free" home charge points... they're not that expensive and the ABLs ESB install aren't that good.
It's a nice bonus if you get it anyway but shouldn't factor into your decision. Also they'll be all gone in the next month or two.

I'd rate the ABLs very highly , and so does Nigel Daly , over several other types . Also the parts fir the units can be easily sourced and the controller is available separately

Easy to reprogram and way better then the chargenasters for example ( pr the crappy Irish one )

BoatMad

who_ru wrote: »

Realistically would I be better advised to buy a 2017 Leaf and get the free home charger installed or buy a 2016 Leaf and get the charger installed myself.

The Leaf I could get pretty much straight away but the Ioniq won't be available until November apparently.

Have you looked at availability of 16 30 kWh , not a lot around and pricey.

If considering new , I'd wait till new gen 2 leaf is announced

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

I'd rate the ABLs very highly , and so does Nigel Daly , over several other types . Also the parts fir the units can be easily sourced and the controller is available separately

Easy to reprogram and way better then the chargenasters for example ( pr the crappy Irish one )

Oh... they are certainly not the worst.... but it's nice to have choices. And I keep skinning my knuckles every time I connect to an ABL so I'm biased.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Oh... they are certainly not the worst.... but it's nice to have choices. And I keep skinning my knuckles every time I connect to an ABL so I'm biased.

Converted it to thethered. No more skinned knuckles

But yes it's it worse feature

unkel

Leave it plugged in to my very long cable. Also a solution. Blame yourself, not your charger for you are the one doing damage to yourself, cros13

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Leave it plugged in to my very long cable. Also a solution. Blame yourself, not your charger for you are the one doing damage to yourself, cros13

Oh I only use it when the other chargepoints at the house are busy. So as a result of the mix of type 1 and type 2 cars the cable can't be left plugged in.
Normally I go with the Rolecs. And I'm looking at either BMW wallbox connects or Tesla Wall connectors for my next home because I need load sharing.

I normally use the ABL as a visitors chargepoint. I gave away two of my free installs after that to some premises I frequent.
If you ever wonder why the chargepoint at the Dublin hackerspace is an ESB ABL...

man_no_plan

cros13 wrote: »

If you want to buy right now and wouldn't mind a white Ioniq you can get one of the few stock or ex-demos going around.

What would you expect to pay for an ex Demo? Pricing on carzone looks very high, identical to brand new as far as I can see.

Best to ring I guess?

Mope

man_no_plan wrote: »

What would you expect to pay for an ex Demo? Pricing on carzone looks very high, identical to brand new as far as I can see.

Best to ring I guess?

I'd thinkg in range of 20-22k would be a price for ex-demo or owned short while.

unkel

Cheapest second hand Ioniq EV in the country on DoneDeal is €27,750. That's more than it costs new. The car is in short supply, so don't expect any miracles here. Getting one for €20-22k this year is not gonna happen.

And importing from the UK is more expensive again, as they don't have subsidies quite as generous as the ones here, so the cars cost more to buy in the first place.

isnottheword

@unkel : Point made well. However, are delivery times improving on the Ioniq? Noticed one or two recent posters over on the Ioniq thread saying they had ordered up and the waiting period didn't seem as long...unless I misunderstood...

goz83

isnottheword wrote: »

@unkel : Point made well. However, are delivery times improving on the Ioniq? Noticed one or two recent posters over on the Ioniq thread saying they had ordered up and the waiting period didn't seem as long...unless I misunderstood...

Apparently a couple of black and white ones are available sooner

isnottheword

goz83 wrote: »

Apparently a couple of black and white ones are available sooner

is the scrappage deal still running?

grogi

isnottheword wrote: »

is the scrappage deal still running?

Is running AGAIN...

ethernet

isnottheword wrote: »

@unkel : Point made well. However, are delivery times improving on the Ioniq? Noticed one or two recent posters over on the Ioniq thread saying they had ordered up and the waiting period didn't seem as long...unless I misunderstood...

Snap. Hyundai in Airside still saying October for next availability :eek:

On a side note, I hope the new Leaf has that black/orange ("Energy Orange") option that the new Micra has. Something oddly nice about it.

Lads this is a Leaf thread....

Moreilly

Deleted User wrote: »

Lads this is a Leaf thread....

Grand car though......

unkel

Maybe we should just have one big thread in this forum, every thread is about everything anyway

@isnottheword - your guess is as good as mine. I've picked up on availability in recent weeks mainly from posters on this forum. And from what I've gathered there does seem to be a few cars coming into the country (mainly white, some black?) but if you order your own one, it will take a long time.

Fireball14013

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2018-nissan-leaf-%E2%80%93-striking-design-previewed-first-image

BoatMad

Fireball14013 wrote: »

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2018-nissan-leaf-%E2%80%93-striking-design-previewed-first-image

sloppy reporting to

"Along with its new look, Nissan’s next-gen zero-emission hatch will also use an improved electric drivetrain that’s predicted to have a range of up to 340 miles"

340 km maybe but certainly not miles

Teaser PIC of Leaf II headlight.

cros13

Yup announcement due September 6th according the Norwegian EV owners... they had an event for 30,000 Leafs sold in their local market and one of the Nissan people mentioned it in the presentations.

I just want specs, don't even want to see it lol.

I could really do with a larger EV , seriously the Leaf is too small !

Water John

Mad Lad, are you as tall as James Comey, or Devin Toner?

What ? lol I want luggage space, I don't like being cramped in cars either. Leaf is fine and spacious and plenty of head room. But the boot is ****, I'd say this about all hatches too by the way.

I'd like an estate.

cros13

Estates are a long way down the road... too small a market right now.

SUVs will be the bulk of the 2018 crop. Nissan due to come out with an SUV too in the next 2 years.