Clerical officer - Low pay - Dublin

noodler

The_Conductor wrote: »

Depends on deductions but typically a new CO would have a net take home of between 330-360 a week.

363 according to Tax Calc.

22,000 starting assumed with the LRA 1,000 euro kicking in this week.

Calina

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

IMO specific to living in Dublin the EO and AO salaries are too low too.

Again if the country wants low salaries it needs low key living costs like accommodation too. You could fix the low income issue by fixing accommodation. Banning airbnb would go a long way towards supporting this and ot would benefit low paid private sector too.

That won't solve the housing/rental situation. One could even argue rents would increase further due to landlords looking to compensate for their loss of airbnb income.

The lack of supply is the single biggest issue in Dublin. Airbnb, vacant property, sub-optimal use of land, are all significant factors, but it's simple supply and demand. So simple that expert economists have been repeating this for months now, yet the Government and Local Authorities continue to cause stagnation in the building sector.

Airbnb year round rentals in Dublin amounted to something between 2500 and 3000 properties last year, I believe. What do you think would happen rents if they arrived back on the rental market?

Technocentral

Article in Times today about union who represent lower paid CS staff seeking pay restoration and cut of 2 hours, cant post link.

The_Conductor

Technocentral wrote: »

Article in Times today about union who represent lower paid CS staff seeking pay restoration and cut of 2 hours, cant post link.[/QUOTE]

Linked for you.
In all fairness- the 2 hours- is 2 hours per week- and represents additional time worked gratis secured under Croke Park and Haddington Road. It would still mean staff were working a net 35 hour week (clocking out for lunch etc).

Technocentral

Yeah 2 hours doesn't bother me just mentioned it, was more for pay restoration bit, thanks.

noodler

It's my understanding that the CO grade have all their pay back from the pay cuts (or at least will when LRA expires in 2018).

Because the cuts were pro rata but the gross element of the restoration has been in blocks. Not to mention they are not subject to PRD at first few points on scale.

Technocentral

"In an address to the annual conference of the Civil Public and Services Union (CPSU) in Killarney, its general secretary Eoin Ronayne will say that lower-paid clerical staff remain up to 2,000 euro out of pocket on foot of cuts imposed following the economic crash".

Mrwade

Technocentral wrote: »

"In an address to the annual conference of the Civil Public and Services Union (CPSU) in Killarney, its general secretary Eoin Ronayne will say that lower-paid clerical staff remain up to 2,000 euro out of pocket on foot of cuts imposed following the economic crash".

Is that even after the 1000 euro pay rise

Technocentral

Mrwade wrote:

Is that even after the 1000 euro pay rise

Presume as conference is today.

noodler

Technocentral wrote: »

Presume as conference is today.

Again, I think COs have been restored as the pay cuts have not been restored on the same basis they were imposed.

I wonder if CPSU are working in the cost of. Additional hours which everyone has to do.

doc22

noodler wrote: »

Again, I think COs have been restored as the pay cuts have not been restored on the same basis they were imposed.

I wonder if CPSU are working in the cost of. Additional hours which everyone has to do.

the 10% cut that effected new recruits hasn't been rowed back on. The 1000 extra was given to everyone meaning there's still the gap in pay. The 2000 could also include the PRD etc at the upper end of the CO payscale,low pay doesn't mean bottom of the CO payscale it perhaps includes everyone under 65k in the unions eyes:pac:

The_Conductor

The_Conductor wrote: »

................

A rather unusual and stark statistic- is the life expectancies in different professions. Its used for the calculation of annuities (FRS17 declarations etc). A female civil servant's life expectancy is 2.2 years below the national average. A male civil servant's life expectancy is 6.8 years below the national average. With the exception of the construction and farming professions- civil servants are the third highest profession featuring death-in-service (which is alluded to in the annual death in service statistics published by DPER)...............

I would think that's because of various civil servant's work shifts.

the stats for desk jockey's wouldn't be unusual or stark.

noodler

doc22 wrote: »

the 10% cut that effected new recruits hasn't been rowed back on. The 1000 extra was given to everyone meaning there's still the gap in pay. The 2000 could also include the PRD etc at the upper end of the CO payscale,low pay doesn't mean bottom of the CO payscale it perhaps includes everyone under 65k in the unions eyes:pac:

There was 1,000 given in 2016 as well.

Although to be honest, if they mean the 10% for new entransts then thats:

a) not unique to them and;
b) doesn't affect the majority of COs.

Technocentral

noodler wrote:

Although to be honest, if they mean the 10% for new entransts then thats:

noodler wrote:

There was 1,000 given in 2016 as well.

Starting salary is 22,179, still far off the 28 or so necessary to live in Dublin.

noodler

Technocentral wrote: »

Starting salary is 22,179, still far off the 28 or so necessary to live in Dublin.

Eh, what?

Irrelevant to the the post in question which is quite clearly talking about whether or not their salary has been fully restored.

uck51js9zml2yt

CO started at 23,086 in 2007 so we are still below the starting salary

http://www.impact.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/files/civilservicepdf/salaryscales/csjune2007.pdf

Technocentral

noodler wrote:

Irrelevant to the the post in question which is quite clearly talking about whether or not their salary has been fully restored.

I posted earlier about 28k, just reiterating.

Arcade_Tryer

Technocentral wrote: »

Starting salary is 22,179, still far off the 28 or so necessary to live in Dublin.

Is there any evidence, or even general agreement, to support that statement? Not sure there is.

A living wage (calculated at €11.50 per hour) would be a better place to start, and would garner more general support, than overestimated figures such as 28k.

The_Conductor

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Is there any evidence, or even general agreement, to support that statement? Not sure there is.

A living wage (calculated at €11.50 per hour) would be a better place to start, and would garner more general support, than overestimated figures such as 28k.

However- and as alluded to earlier in this thread- simply having a 'living wage' isn't good enough. It has no cognisance of the differing living costs in different areas. 11.50 an hour- might be quite comfortable (ok, that's a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea) in some areas- but condemn someone to penury elsewhere. We need local living wages- not a national living wage.

Again, to bring it back, there's a lot of people earning well below 28k living in Dublin, and without the hours, progression, security etc of the CO starting off.

Just to bring it back to the starting topic.

doc22

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Is there any evidence, or even general agreement, to support that statement? Not sure there is.

A living wage (calculated at €11.50 per hour) would be a better place to start, and would garner more general support, than overestimated figures such as 28k.

A CO would get that now 450/37=12 per hour, decent enough with flexi,pension,increments,internal promotions and security included. If someone thinks they're worth near 30K there's nothing stopping them getting an AO EO post or job in the private sector. Passing a basic math and verbal test does not entitle you to a 30kish starting salary.

noodler

Laurie Purple Snorer wrote: »

CO started at 23,086 in 2007 so we are still below the starting salary

http://www.impact.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/files/civilservicepdf/salaryscales/csjune2007.pdf

You quoted the wrong (higher scale).

That link shows the standard co scale at 22.

Arcade_Tryer

The_Conductor wrote: »

However- and as alluded to earlier in this thread- simply having a 'living wage' isn't good enough. It has no cognisance of the differing living costs in different areas. 11.50 an hour- might be quite comfortable (ok, that's a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea) in some areas- but condemn someone to penury elsewhere. We need local living wages- not a national living wage.

Ok. So you're alluding to the difference in living costs between Dublin and the rest of the country here. However, most of that increased cost of living is based on accommodation costs in the capital, hence why a subsidy to people renting would perhaps be a fairer approach than a higher wage for everyone working in Dublin. Otherwise you would have a situation whereby people working in Dublin who don't pay rent, are receiving a higher wage than people outside of Dublin.

BoatMad

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Ok. So you're alluding to the difference in living costs between Dublin and the rest of the country here. However, most of that increased cost of living is based on accommodation costs in the capital, hence why a subsidy to people renting would perhaps be a fairer approach than a higher wage for everyone working in Dublin. Otherwise you would have a situation whereby people working in Dublin who don't pay rent, are receiving a higher wage than people outside of Dublin.

by and large most things in Dublin are dearer this includes cost of transport ( congestion ) , eating out , pubs , buying a house , renting etc and the LPT is higher for a same size house

a DUBlin Supplement would be fair

Arcade_Tryer

BoatMad wrote: »

by and large most things in Dublin are dearer this includes cost of transport ( congestion ) , eating out , pubs , buying a house , renting etc and the LPT is higher for a same size house

a DUBlin Supplement would be fair

Public transport is far cheaper than ownership of a car, which many people outside of Dublin must do to get to work and generally move around. Also have to disagree, there is far better value for money in terms of food and drink (maybe not pubs) in Dublin than the rest of the country. Renting is the big cost, and the only real significant difference, which is why there should be a rent subsidy. LPT is higher because the house is worth more!

BoatMad

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Public transport is far cheaper than ownership of a car, which many people outside of Dublin must do to get to work and generally move around. Also have to disagree, there is far better value for money in terms of food and drink (maybe not pubs) in Dublin than the rest of the country. Renting is the big cost, and the only real significant difference, which is why there should be a rent subsidy. LPT is higher because the house is worth more!

A person in a house in dibbling is not in a realisable asset, they have to sleep somewhere

Hence LPT is just a cost , in my view LPT should have been based on size and not notional value.

most commuters in the GDA use a car, Thats clear from the statistics. that travel is more expensive then out in in the rural areas

DUBlin is expensive, that shown in all the stats. a London subelement is common in the UK , there no reason why a CS living in Dublin should not get a 10-15% gross supplement , despite the begrudgery arguments

Technocentral

Arcade_Tryer wrote:

Public transport is far cheaper than ownership of a car, which many people outside of Dublin must do to get to work and generally move around. Also have to disagree, there is far better value for money in terms of food and drink (maybe not pubs) in Dublin than the rest of the country. Renting is the big cost, and the only real significant difference, which is why there should be a rent subsidy. LPT is higher because the house is worth more!

Id be happy with a decent rent subsidy too, but that wouldn't wash with most people, salary increase more realistic to obtain.

Arcade_Tryer

BoatMad wrote: »

DUBlin is expensive, that shown in all the stats. a London subelement is common in the UK , there no reason why a CS living in Dublin should not get a 10-15% gross supplement , despite the begrudgery arguments

The only significant difference in cost between Dublin and the rest of the country is renting though. So giving someone who is not paying rent an extra 10-15% salary just because they work in Dublin would be insane. It has very little to do with begrudging people, and a lot to do with fairness.

Technocentral wrote: »

Id be happy with a decent rent subsidy too, but that wouldn't wash with most people, salary increase more realistic to obtain.

I highly doubt a significant salary increase for Dublin workers would wash with the rest of the country. And justifiably so.

Technocentral

Arcade_Tryer wrote:

The only significant difference in cost between Dublin and the rest of the country is renting though. So giving someone who is not paying rent an extra 10-15% salary just because they work in Dublin would be insane. It has very little to do with begrudging people, and a lot to do with fairness.

Not sure what your solution is? You seem to shoot down every single suggestion.

BoatMad

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The only significant difference in cost between Dublin and the rest of the country is renting though. So giving someone who is not paying rent an extra 10-15% salary just because they work in Dublin would be insane. It has very little to do with begrudging people, and a lot to do with fairness.
I highly doubt a significant salary increase for Dublin workers would wash with the rest of the country. And justifiably so.

sorry a couple buying a house have to find 20-30 % more to finance a house

it doesnt matter if it " washes " or not , its just simple" begrudgery"