British monarch references painted over on street signs.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Oh dear, you do know there is a difference between my house (private property) and these street signs (public realm)? Hell, Banksy or Maser doesn't event have to ask in advance I'll give my permission retrospectively

....and I don't really 'get' these Cork guys' avant garde performance art, but that's just me. Maybe some Shinners would spend money buying their pieces

So the 'logic' here is, because you place a value on it, then it is legitimate.
You won't call for them to be jailed, crucified or similarly punished, in fact, you will welcome them onto your property to 'create' in the hope you can make some money.

Very clear. Thanks.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the 'logic' here is, because you place a value on it, then it is legitimate.
You won't call for them to be jailed, crucified or similarly punished, in fact, you will welcome them onto your property to 'create' in the hope you can make some money.

Very clear. Thanks.

Yes, we all value different things. I know the colourless world the Shinners seem hell bent on creating has yet to emerge but until then I'm happy to enjoy my sense of the aesthetic and leave others to enjoys theirs.

If someone thinks some signs painted over by a couple of lads with plastic tricolours is attractive then good luck to them. Contact the city council there and ask to buy them......

......before the Shinners start wailing for them to be bought for the people

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes, we all value different things. I know the colourless world the Shinners seem hell bent on creating has yet to emerge but until then I'm happy to enjoy my sense of the aesthetic and leave others to enjoys theirs.

If someone thinks some signs painted over by a couple of lads with plastic tricolours is attractive then good luck to them. Contact the city council there and ask to buy them......

......before the Shinners start wailing for them to be bought for the people

Some people think Maser and Banksy are rubbish too. Some would identify them as ordinary criminals too.


Defacing public and private property has been done for ever for political, comedic, or just pure malicious value.

You are an art snob, and because certain proponents of the above has financial value that legitimises what they do.

Very clear, as I said.
My position on this hasn't changed but I think we can all see a certain hypocrisy in yours.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Some people think Maser and Banksy are rubbish too. Some would identify them as ordinary criminals too.


Defacing public and private property has been done for ever for political, comedic, or just pure malicious value.

You are an art snob, and because certain proponents of the above has financial value that legitimises what they do.

Very clear, as I said.

Then my advice to Banksy and Maser would be don't paint on their property.

Am I a snob? Yeah, pretty much.

Am I an art snob? Nah, not really - I can't afford to be

.....but I do think it's wonderful that the Shinners can debate guys painting out the word 'Victoria' with black paint while waving plastic flags and wearing hi-viz and turn it into an art critiquing sessions.....although they need to be careful of that black paint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIW9sL-Yf6Q

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Then my advice to Banksy and Maser would be don't paint on their property.

Am I a snob? Yeah, pretty much.

Am I an art snob? Nah, not really - I can't afford to be

.....but I do think it's wonderful that the Shinners can debate guys painting out the word 'Victoria' with black paint while waving plastic flags and wearing hi-viz and turn it into an art critiquing sessions.....although they need to be careful of that black paint

Even if we remove the 'money/financial value' aspect it is still rankly hypocritical.

You value one because you agree with the politics of the statement.

*I see we are heading down the 'I will call you a Shinner because my argument has nowhere left to go' cul de sac.

So I will leave it there.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Even if we remove the 'money/financial value' aspect it is still rankly hypocritical.

You value one because you agree with the politics of the statement.

*I see we are heading down the 'I will call you a Shinner because my argument has nowhere left to go' cul de sac.

So I will leave it there.

...

For the sake of space I removed the image.

And no I'd value a Banksy done on my property because I'd know I could sell it for a decent amount?

Would I buy one? Probably not - even if I could afford it.


"I just like my haystacks....."

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jawgap wrote: »

yeah, these guys and Banksy, Maser, Joe Caslin etc are in the same category and worthy of comparison in respect of their artistic, social and political objectives :rolleyes:

Those signs have already probably been unscrewed and will be up for auction before long.

Even as a piece of Irish republican political art its definitely up there with Harrington's Black Herds!

Comparing them to Banksy........best one yet :D:D:D:D

Essentially, other than your taste in art, what is the difference in what they are doing?

I can't see any other difference than ability/quality.

Rather than mock, could you explain the difference in what he is doing and what most other politically motivated graffiti artists do?
Why champion Maser or Banksy and not others right to do it.

Artists lol. They are vandals, plain and simple. They should be arrested and charged for destroying public property. If it is anything to do with Irish Republicanism, you just defend it. I can't think of anything you wouldn't defend if it suits the cause.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Artists lol. They are vandals, plain and simple. They should be arrested and charged for destroying public property. If it is anything to do with Irish Republicanism, you just defend it. I can't think of anything you wouldn't defend if it suits the cause.

My view on these guys has been clearly stated. But as we can see, there is a touch of hypocrisy in the attitude of others.

Unless you can show how one is NOT making a political statement, that is?


I don't think even these guys think they are 'obliterating' the names in the hope that it will be forgotten or not seen anymore.

It's a stunt to make a political point, exactly the same as Banksy/Maser and a host of other graffiti artists do.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Artists lol. They are vandals, plain and simple. They should be arrested and charged for destroying public property. If it is anything to do with Irish Republicanism, you just defend it. I can't think of anything you wouldn't defend if it suits the cause.

My view on these guys has been clearly stated. But as we can see, there is a touch of hypocrisy in the attitude of others.

Unless you can show how one is NOT making a political statement, that is?


I don't think even these guys think they are 'obliterating' the names in the hope that it will be forgotten or not seen anymore.

It's a stunt to make a political point, exactly the same as Banksy/Maser and a host of other graffiti artists do.

But people know these views exist within Republicanism and vandalizing public property is not right. Just write a leaflet about it or get Sinn Fein to address it in the Dail.

JupiterKid

I think Banksy is excellent. OK, he's a graffiti artist but work has definite artistic merit and makes some very good political points.

Far better than "Up The RA" or the like scrawled on a wall with cheap white paint.

My 2 cents.

JoeyReagan

What about all the buildings built during British rule? should we all get sledgehammer and knock them down? yes, we have a long and complicated relationship with Britain but surely a petition to have changes made would be a better/more productive approach than taking out a few paint cans and brushes.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

But people know these views exist within Republicanism and vandalizing public property is not right. Just write a leaflet about it or get Sinn Fein to address it in the Dail.

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think Sinn Fein have endorsed this behaviour.

I haven't either. I think it is wholly wrong. Both the political point and the method/medium of making that point.

Others seem a little confused and a tad hypocritical on that one though, they want selective 'graffiti artists to add value to their house'.

JupiterKid

JoeyReagan wrote: »

What about all the buildings built during British rule? should we all get sledgehammer and knock them down? yes, we have a long and complicated relationship with Britain but surely a petition to have changes made would be a better/more productive approach than taking out a few paint cans and brushes.

That's what property developers in Dublin tried to do in the less enlightened 60s and 70s - demolish perfectly beautiful,Georgian houses and replace them with pig ugly soulless concrete office blocks in the name of "progress." Apparently at one point in the early 1970s most of Mount Street was rebuilt. Sad.

And I'm sure there was the attitude "ah sure it was built by the evil Brits, better to knock it down" sort of mentality back then. We really regret it now...

Ballymun style tower block flats, driving dual carriageways through the heart of the historic city and endless row after row of bland suburban semi-d's were seen as the way of the future back then. We won't be going back to that era.

Jawgap

A Little Pony wrote: »

Artists lol. They are vandals, plain and simple. They should be arrested and charged for destroying public property. If it is anything to do with Irish Republicanism, you just defend it. I can't think of anything you wouldn't defend if it suits the cause.

Philistine

You don't get the symbolism of hi-viz clad Irishmen ('true' republicans) painting out the Famine Queen's name with black paint will the tricolour flutters gently above.....

......they're like an Irish Ai Weiwei

Jawgap

JupiterKid wrote: »

That's what property developers in Dublin tried to do in the less enlightened 60s and 70s - demolish perfectly beautiful,Georgian houses and replace them with pig ugly soulless concrete office blocks in the name of "progress." Apparently at one point in the early 1970s most of Mount Street was rebuilt. Sad.

And I'm sure there was the attitude "ah sure it was built by the evil Brits, better to knock it down" sort of mentality back then. We really regret it now...

The opening chapter in The Builders is an account of the Georgian Houses in Kildare Street being knocked and a senior civil servant expressing his delight at the demolition "and all they stood for." Apparently the properties were in good condition.....

......so we replaced this



with this.....

FrancieBrady

Crucify or invite 'em round to do the garage doors?

http://londonist.com/2016/07/london-s-defaced-road-signs

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Crucify or invite 'em round to do the garage doors?

http://londonist.com/2016/07/london-s-defaced-road-signs

Well I checked and there doesn't seem to be an artist identified so difficult to know if you could sell anything they might do for you....

......saying that, the brother and his wife have a funky restaurant / cafe place - it'd be the type of thing they'd buy to slap up on the wall.

Which reminds me, they recruited some local graffiti artists to do a mural on the side of their place - their logic was that if someone local did something the wall would be less likely to be vandalised......and so far so good.

Now, off to watch the rugby from Rome......the original home of political graffiti

JupiterKid

Jawgap wrote: »

The opening chapter in The Builders is an account of the Georgian Houses in Kildare Street being knocked and a senior civil servant expressing his delight at the demolition "and all they stood for." Apparently the properties were in good condition.....

......so we replaced this



with this.....

I have a copy of an Irish builders journal from 1973 that had a feature section on Dublin's then "office boom" and the rubbish built at the time would make your eyes water. At one point the only people standing up to this madness were the Irish Georgian Society.

They managed to save the magnificent Castletown House in Celbridge from destruction by a developer - by buying it up themselves.

If you remember the grim 80s, half of inner city Dublin was a wasteland of derelict land where historic buildings had been knocked but nothing was built to replace them until the 90s urban renewal apartment boom came along. Most of the old buildings on Parnell St West were demolished for an urban dual carriageway. Great.

indioblack

LordSutch wrote: »

Ignorant tosspot in a hat....

Off to the dole office with ya.

The trouble with this guy is that he has no style.
The hat, the hi-viz flak jacket, the paint brush from the D.I.Y superstore.
If your'e going to be a, [very visible], political agitator, a protester - you've got to have a bit of flair. Panache.
I'm sure the French would do it better.

A Little Pony

JupiterKid wrote: »

Jawgap wrote: »

The opening chapter in The Builders is an account of the Georgian Houses in Kildare Street being knocked and a senior civil servant expressing his delight at the demolition "and all they stood for." Apparently the properties were in good condition.....

......so we replaced this



with this.....

I have a copy of an Irish builders journal from 1973 that had a feature section on Dublin's then "office boom" and the rubbish built at the time would make your eyes water. At one point the only people standing up to this madness were the Irish Georgian Society.

They managed to save the magnificent Castletown House in Celbridge from destruction by a developer - by buying it up themselves.

If you remember the grim 80s, half of inner city Dublin was a wasteland of derelict land where historic buildings had been knocked but nothing was built to replace them until the 90s urban renewal apartment boom came along. Most of the old buildings on Parnell St West were demolished for an urban dual carriageway. Great.

A disgrace frankly.

Cortina_MK_IV

A Little Pony wrote: »

But people know these views exist within Republicanism and vandalizing public property is not right. Just write a leaflet about it or get Sinn Fein to address it in the Dail.

Sorry I think I missed a bit... What's the Sinn Féin link with these guys?

FrancieBrady

JupiterKid wrote: »

I have a copy of an Irish builders journal from 1973 that had a feature section on Dublin's then "office boom" and the rubbish built at the time would make your eyes water. At one point the only people standing up to this madness were the Irish Georgian Society.

They managed to save the magnificent Castletown House in Celbridge from destruction by a developer - by buying it up themselves.

If you remember the grim 80s, half of inner city Dublin was a wasteland of derelict land where historic buildings had been knocked but nothing was built to replace them until the 90s urban renewal apartment boom came along. Most of the old buildings on Parnell St West were demolished for an urban dual carriageway. Great.

The destruction of a cities heritage for profit isn't a uniquely Irish one though.
If we had less people with a flip flop and mercenary (if I can make some money, upscale the value of my garage doors etc) attitude to vandalism then we might have appreciated these buildings.

Great shame IMO.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The destruction of a cities heritage for profit isn't a uniquely Irish one though.
If we had less people with a flip flop and mercenary (if I can make some money, upscale the value of my garage doors etc) attitude to vandalism then we might have appreciated these buildings.

Great shame IMO.

It's not the destruction of heritage for profit sake though......it's the celebration of the destruction of that heritage that differentiates a certain class.

And seriously, I know you think these guys are the Cork equivalent of Banksy but now you think my garage doors are the equivalent of Georgian streetscape......:D

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not the destruction of heritage for profit sake though......it's the celebration of the destruction of that heritage that differentiates a certain class.

And seriously, I know you think these guys are the Cork equivalent of Banksy but now you think my garage doors are the equivalent of Georgian streetscape......:D

The hypocritical distinction again.

Graffiti/defacement is good coz I like/agree with it or it has monetary value
Versus
Graffiti/defacement is bad coz I don't like/agree with it or it has no monetary value.

Hypocrisy as old as the catacombs.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The hypocritical distinction again.

Graffiti/defacement is good coz I like/agree with it or it has monetary value
Versus
Graffiti/defacement is bad coz I don't like/agree with it or it has no monetary value.

Hypocrisy as old as the catacombs.

No, you miss the point.

I would like Banksy to graffiti my house because that would add value - I don't have to like the art, I don't even have to agree with the message......I just have recognise there's a market for his work.

.....and still you persist in your own performance art likening these guys to Banksy.....what do you call your piece......"The futility of the non-Shinner"

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

No, you miss the point.

I would like Banksy to graffiti my house because that would add value - I don't have to like the art, I don't even have to agree with the message......I just have recognise there's a market for his work.

.....and still you persist in your own performance art likening these guys to Banksy.....what do you call your piece......"The futility of the non-Shinner"

No, quite wrong.

I likened the 'method' - the defacement of property to make a political point.

You are ambiguous on that act because you have selected some whom you would employ to profit from.

A clearly hypocritical stance.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, quite wrong.

I likened the 'method' - the defacement of property to make a political point.

You are ambiguous on that act because you have selected some whom you would employ to profit from.

A clearly hypocritical stance.

Ah, maybe......but so what? I've been called worse than hypocritical

I'd happily practise hypocrisy if it meant getting my hands on a Banksy to sell.

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Ah, maybe......but so what? I've been called worse than hypocritical

I'd happily practise hypocrisy if it meant getting my hands on a Banksy to sell.

So these guys would be OK if they could monetise what they are doing?

OK. That's fairly clear. Thank you.

A Little Pony

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

But people know these views exist within Republicanism and vandalizing public property is not right. Just write a leaflet about it or get Sinn Fein to address it in the Dail.

Sorry I think I missed a bit... What's the Sinn Féin link with these guys?

These guys are Irish Republicans. Sinn Fein would surely take up the complaints they have and so they should put it to Sinn Fein to speak about it, peacefully in the Dail.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So these guys would be OK if they could monetise what they are doing?

OK. That's fairly clear. Thank you.

Well if that were true, sure would the boys your so fond of be grand then.....given they've monetised bank robbery (as opposed to Banksy robbing ), fuel laundering, tobacco smuggling, protection rackets, intellectual property piracy, etc etc etc