And so it begins...

Grayson

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge.
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16388184_762424430572437_4846068352408505183_n.jpg?oh=3c5c4a9dfa44990e209cd0184db0b532&oe=5912D7E6

It's been mentioned a few times on other threads. I don't think it excuses US actions though.

wes

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge.
https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16388184_762424430572437_4846068352408505183_n.jpg?oh=3c5c4a9dfa44990e209cd0184db0b532&oe=5912D7E6

So America is now at the same level of dictatorships, and near failed states. Some achievement from Trump on that.

wakka12

wes wrote: »

So America is now at the same level of dictatorships, and near failed states. Some achievement from Trump on that.

You're right, USA should never have stopped to their level. But again, begs the question as to why these countries were never criticised over their actions in the first place. And 'theyre dictatorships' etc, is not good a good argument. They should be criticised to the same level that the US is being currently.

Widdershins

Grayson wrote: »

It's been mentioned a few times on other threads. I don't think it excuses US actions though.

No. It doesn't.

wes

wakka12 wrote: »

You're right, USA should never have stopped to their level. But again, begs the question as to why these countries were never criticised over their actions in the first place. And 'theyre dictatorships' etc, is not good a good argument. They should be criticised to the same level that the US is being currently.

Democracies should always be held to a higher standard, than a dictatorship, or a near failed 3rd world country. When, you claim to be the leader of the free world, its only right to be held to that standard.

Secondly, the whole line of argument smacks of whatabotery. Sure, I could say, well sure what those countries do is bad, but look how Israel treats Palestinians in the West Bank. Its a simple distraction, that lets people excuse this kind of carry on.

BorneTobyWilde

Media can blare the '' non constitutional '' text across the screen and invoke a huge reaction in people to protest.
Do people really believe that the citizens of these 7 countries had a free pass to travel to the US before this 90 day ban. The ban is there to put in place better vetting, it's put in place to improve upon what was already there under Obama. The only thing that has changed is this temporary 90 day ban. I'm sure after this ban that it will become more difficult for anyone to slip through the net. You can't have a situation like in Europe where people come and go to Syria and simply walk back in to Europe to slaughter people. It is clearly not a Muslim ban.
As for refugees ,does it matter their religion ? Should Trump choose Muslims over Christians ? If the US only takes Christian refugees then it should not be frowned upon.
It would actually solve a problem. Europe wants US to do it's part, so why not send them Christian refugees.

Commotion Ocean

This reminds me of Hitler's Final Solution.

Jews are not real Germans.

Let's deport them.

Oh, deportation doesn't work? Let's gas them.

It's only a matter of time before people are herded into camps by Trump.

wes

I am sure it has been mentioned, that a court order was made against some aspects of the executive order, that has been ignored:

Border agents defy courts on Trump travel ban, congressmen and lawyers say


So the border agents who did this, are violating the law, and should be imprisoned, surely. As the President is not above the law, and neither are his lackeys.

Jimmy Garlic

dfeo wrote: »

This reminds me of Hitler's Final Solution.

Jews are not real Germans.

Let's deport them.

Oh, deportation doesn't work? Let's gas them.

It's only a matter of time before people are herded into camps by Trump.

Herding people into camps :rolleyes: Such a load of hysterical trash. Try to get a grip on reality, it's slipping away from you.

Commotion Ocean

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Herding people into camps :rolleyes: Such a load of hysterical trash. Try to get a grip on reality, it's slipping away from you.

No one thought Hitler would ever go that far ... but he did.

Boggy Turf

dfeo wrote: »

This reminds me of Hitler's Final Solution.

Jews are not real Germans.

Let's deport them.

Oh, deportation doesn't work? Let's gas them.

It's only a matter of time before people are herded into camps by Trump.

I see people on FB calling him Der Fuhrer.

People are getting thicker and more sensational with each passing year.

Yourself isit

dfeo wrote: »

No one thought Hitler would ever go that far ... but he did.

I was a bit worried about Obama using his Muslim death ray gun to do that too but it didn't happen.

Dont assume the worst.

Yourself isit

wes wrote: »

So America is now at the same level of dictatorships, and near failed states. Some achievement from Trump on that.

But the US has had via restrictions before. Not just iraq under Obama.

The miscalculation here was to treat green card holders in that fashion.

Jimmy Garlic

dfeo wrote: »

No one thought Hitler would ever go that far ... but he did.

Going around comparing things and people you don't like to Hitler and Nazis means that noone who is playing with a full deck is going to take you seriously. It's asinine, it's pure hysteria.

Widdershins

dfeo wrote: »

No one thought Hitler would ever go that far ... but he did.

Hitler didn't have the eyes of the world on him, anticipating what he might do to people.

Havockk

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Herding people into camps :rolleyes: Such a load of hysterical trash. Try to get a grip on reality, it's slipping away from you.

Really? Really?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_giuliani-435pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a867a0fcf840

Watch this and then ask yourself what is the meaningful difference between a 'detention camp' and a 'concentration camp'.

Both Giuliani and the 'Judge' interviewing him think they sound like a 'great idea' altogether.

It's a worrying time in the world, when such fascist thinking is openly spoken, only a half dozen years ago this kind of talk would have been simply shunned yet we have a situation that even on a community board in Ireland it's suddenly quite acceptable to espouse genuine fascist ideology.

Jimmy Garlic

Widdershins wrote: »

Hitler didn't have the eyes of the world on him, anticipating what he might do to people.

The lefts Uncle Joe Stalin and the Bolsheviks were a lot worse than Hitler and the Nazis in terms of the body count they stacked up, but nobody compares anyone to them. They barely get a mention. The political left never ever ever mentions them. Airbrushed from the history books.

Yourself isit

Havockk wrote: »

Really? Really?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_giuliani-435pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a867a0fcf840

Watch this and then ask yourself what is the meaningful difference between a 'detention camp' and a 'concentration camp'.

Both Giuliani and the 'Judge' interviewing him think they sound like a 'great idea' altogether.

It's a worrying time in the world, when such fascist thinking is openly spoken, only a half dozen years ago this kind of talk would have been simply shunned yet we have a situation that even on a community board in Ireland it's suddenly quite acceptable to espouse genuine fascist ideology.

A detention "camp" (ie cell) is fairly common for people with visa violations in any country in the world, including here.

I've been held myself.

There's just far too much hysteria around trump. If people keep crying Nazi now then what happens later if he does go over the top.

Add someone who had opposed the US foreign policy of the last few years I kind of welcome that the US is coming under the kind of scrutiny it always needed when bush Obama and Clinton were bombing Yemen, aiding al Queda, and de posing ghadaffi. Or torturing in guantanomo.

Is a wee bit hypocritical though.

Havockk

Yourself isit wrote: »

A detention "camp" (ie cell) is fairly common for people with visa violations in any country in the world, including here.

I've been held myself.

In this context it's quite clear the idea is to 'round' people up 'instead' of processing in the normal fashion. This is EXACTLY what Hitler did. It simply cannot be defended.

Ulysses Gaze

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The lefts Uncle Joe Stalin and the Bolsheviks were a lot worse than Hitler and the Nazis in terms of the body count they stacked up, but nobody compares anyone to them. They barely get a mention. The political left never ever ever mentions them. Airbrushed from the history books.

Because Uncle Joe and Co helped the Allies win the war.

Without the blood sacrifice, i.e. carelessly throwing away millions of lives by Uncle Joe and Co, they bled the Wehrmacht dry.

Hence why the Allies were fighting 14 year olds and old men in the Ardennes in 1944.

Yourself isit

Havockk wrote: »

In this context it's quite clear the idea is to 'round' people up 'instead' of processing in the normal fashion. This is EXACTLY what Hitler did. It simply cannot be defended.

What context? I read that piece. Couldn't see that.

Widdershins

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The lefts Uncle Joe Stalin and the Bolsheviks were a lot worse than Hitler and the Nazis in terms of the body count they stacked up, but nobody compares anyone to them. They barely get a mention. The political left never ever ever mentions them. Airbrushed from the history books.

Oh God yes, excellent point. Erm..might it be because, you know, it's a bit of a stain on the communist utopian ideals they often seem to favour? An inconvenient part of history for the Left

Boggy Turf

degsie wrote: »

With Trump's executive order on Muslim immigration, his siding up with Russia and his spat with Mexico, alongside the UK turning its back on Europe, we are heading towards a darker place. The world seems a little less safe right now.

But how do you feel less safe? He's just a stupid American elected by other stupid Americans. I have known about stupid Americans for decades. But I also know there are smart Americans to counter them. Life goes on.

I am looking at my mangy dog sitting beside the fire here. He doesn't seem anymore scared than last week. He doesn't appear less safe to me. Maybe we should all be like my dog. He couldn't give a fiddlers fcuk I reckon.

I was playing progressive 25 (a card game) last night in the community centre. Nobody up there seemed less safe than the previous Sunday. Seamus Walsh was a bit frightened because he was getting less trumps than usual but the cute whore knows how to get the soft tricks. Should I tell my card playing friends to feel less safe?

You say we are heading towards a darker place? I don't feel that way. I used to do a lot of caving here and in England and I have gotten lost in some unbelievably dark places. I found my way out and I learned some things, things like bring more batteries, bring more chalk, bring more food, find better cave maps. Do I feel the world is a darker place today? No. It's January in Ireland, you wait until the clocks go forward - you'll have more light than you can shake a stick at!
.

wakka12

wes wrote: »

Democracies should always be held to a higher standard, than a dictatorship, or a near failed 3rd world country. When, you claim to be the leader of the free world, its only right to be held to that standard.

Secondly, the whole line of argument smacks of whatabotery. Sure, I could say, well sure what those countries do is bad, but look how Israel treats Palestinians in the West Bank. Its a simple distraction, that lets people excuse this kind of carry on.

If we do not hold these places to any standard then there is no hope of them ever improving.

Ulysses Gaze

Widdershins wrote: »

Oh God yes, excellent point. Erm..might it be because, you know, it's a bit of a stain on the communist utopian ideals they often seem to favour? An inconvenient part of history for the Left

The argument used is that Stalinism is not Marxism; that Stalinism is a bastardised form of Marxism.

That's the defence used anyway.

Widdershins

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The argument used is that Stalinism is not Marxism; that Stalinism is a bastardised form of Marxism.

That's the defence used anyway.

Yet the drivel sounds the same.

end of the road

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Media can blare the '' non constitutional '' text across the screen and invoke a huge reaction in people to protest.
Do people really believe that the citizens of these 7 countries had a free pass to travel to the US before this 90 day ban. The ban is there to put in place better vetting, it's put in place to improve upon what was already there under Obama. The only thing that has changed is this temporary 90 day ban. I'm sure after this ban that it will become more difficult for anyone to slip through the net. You can't have a situation like in Europe where people come and go to Syria and simply walk back in to Europe to slaughter people. It is clearly not a Muslim ban.
As for refugees ,does it matter their religion ? Should Trump choose Muslims over Christians ? If the US only takes Christian refugees then it should not be frowned upon.
It would actually solve a problem. Europe wants US to do it's part, so why not send them Christian refugees.

why christians. as we have witnessed in terms of america, christians make up plenty of the extremists who have injured and slaughtered. so surely then it's both religions are taken in or no religion?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The lefts Uncle Joe Stalin and the Bolsheviks were a lot worse than Hitler and the Nazis in terms of the body count they stacked up, but nobody compares anyone to them. They barely get a mention. The political left never ever ever mentions them. Airbrushed from the history books.

incorrect i'm afraid. both of those bits of vermin are talked about as well. strawman and whataboutery.

infogiver

pilly wrote: »

I never said people had the human right to live anywhere but the fact of the matter is that people who have legally applied for and been given a green card and made lives in the USA have the right to return there.

Do you dispute this?

Yes I dispute it. President Trump has made an executive desicion to cancel for 90 days all the visas that had been issued to nationals of 7 countries. So as of now they don't have the right. So what?

cerastes

Apparently Enda said around the time of his meeting with May, he doesnt agree with Trumps decision regarding the visa/travel bans, but he (Trump) is just standing by his electoral promises, I scoffed at the irony, which seems to be lost on Enda as he said this.

or maybe Enda means
he doesnt agree with Trumps decision to stand by his electoral promises :rolleyes:, Enda cant compute that!?
He obviously has nothing between his ears, he seems to have outright forgotten statements he has made, its taken till now to get his party to want him gone, no wonder he hardly says anything, certainly nothing meaningful, they have just got to be keeping him shut up before he does anymore damage (to his party/hacks/cronies), any damage to us is collateral and of no consequence to them.

Jimmy Garlic

Yourself isit wrote: »

A detention "camp" (ie cell) is fairly common for people with visa violations in any country in the world, including here.

I've been held myself.

There's just far too much hysteria around trump. If people keep crying Nazi now then what happens later if he does go over the top.

Add someone who had opposed the US foreign policy of the last few years I kind of welcome that the US is coming under the kind of scrutiny it always needed when bush Obama and Clinton were bombing Yemen, aiding al Queda, and de posing ghadaffi. Or torturing in guantanomo.

Is a wee bit hypocritical though.

The placard waving zombie left who pretend to care about human rights (when it suits them) only come out of hibernation when things are not going their way. Obama and psychopath Clinton could do whatever they wanted and those who pretend to care about human rights couldn't give a damn. The "Arab Spring" and the domino effect of wars and migrant crisis that followed - Silence. Libya - Silence. Supporting Terrorists in Syria and all over the Middle East - Silence. Drone Strikes - Silence, etc etc. Lefty pawns have no minds of their own at all, biological robots programmed by their right-on gurus and Facebook.