And so it begins...

degsie

With Trump's executive order on Muslim immigration, his siding up with Russia and his spat with Mexico, alongside the UK turning its back on Europe, we are heading towards a darker place. The world seems a little less safe right now.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Are you any relation to the legendary Degsy who used to post on here?

Characters like him, CD, Sergeant, Bantum and Crown are sorely missed on this site.

C. Montgomery Gurns

degsie wrote: »

With Trump's executive order on Muslim immigration, his siding up with Russia and his spat with Mexico, alongside the UK turning its back on Europe, we are heading towards a darker place. The world seems a little less safe right now.

Trump has restricted immigration from countries which have produced lone wolf attackers (Somalia, Afghanistan and Syria) in three countries in 2015 and 2016 (Germany, the USA and the UK).

Trump is, as you put it, siding up with, or making peace with, the world's second biggest nuclear arsenal.

The EU are not going to declare war on the UK. Most EU states haven't the balls to protect their own women let alone fight the Brits.


Can you explain to me how the world is now less safe?

rachb

The world has been a lot less safer place since we let in all the undocumented economic migrants into Europe.

wakka12

Uk turning its back on europe is not one of the major things making the world less safe right now. Spare a thought for the millions of Yemenites presently enduring famine and untold hardship due to Saudi blockades rather than worrying about some the stupid antics of that moron Trump who's probably pulling most of this **** for publicity
And I hate derailing these kind of threads with a these people have it worse post but really in the grand scheme of things what Trump is doing or ever has the power to do is not as nearly as bad as whats happening in many parts of the world presently so it just seems a bit childish and blinkered to the problems of the rest of the world really

RobertKK

I am looking forward to the US being in a darker place later this year on August 21st.

Dr Crayfish

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Trump has restricted immigration from countries which have produced lone wolf attackers (Somalia, Afghanistan and Syria) in three countries in 2015 and 2016 (Germany, the USA and the UK).

It's a publicity stunt. I don't see Saudi Arabia on his list of countries, who's citizens were responsible for 9/11. I wonder why?
The real terror threat in USA is their own citizens going on gun rampages, which happens all the time, but they don't want to address that issue properly.

Atlantic Dawn

Where did he say he was banning Muslims?

Atlantic Dawn

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's a publicity stunt. I don't see Saudi Arabia on his list of countries, who's citizens were responsible for 9/11. I wonder why?
The real terror threat in USA is their own citizens going on gun rampages, which happens all the time, but they don't want to address that issue properly.

Hilary took the Saudi money with no questions, RTÉ forgets this.

Stravos Murphy

We're going to build a wall from Dingle to Annascoul.

RobertKK

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's a publicity stunt. I don't see Saudi Arabia on his list of countries, who's citizens were responsible for 9/11. I wonder why?
The real terror threat in USA is their own citizens going on gun rampages, which happens all the time, but they don't want to address that issue properly.

Saudi Arabia has several hundreds of billions of dollars invested in the US, they made a threat to take their money out of the country and their stock market if the US did anything to them when Obama was in power.

degsie

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Where did he say he was banning Muslims?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-signs-executive-order-implementing-extreme-vetting-1.2954319

C. Montgomery Gurns

Actually come to think about it, our world may be, in some aspects, a bit more dangerous in 2017.

Obama rushed to release scores of highly dangerous prisoners days before Trump took office.

It is highly like Ibrahim Halawa will be released from prison and return to Ireland in 2017.

So yes, while it goes against the lefty vibe of the OP, there's two reasons we may face heightened risk in 2017.

Atlantic Dawn

degsie wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-signs-executive-order-implementing-extreme-vetting-1.2954319

But he's not letting in Catholics, Protestants or Jews from the same countries?

eeguy

rachb wrote: »

The world has been a lot less safer place since we let in all the undocumented economic migrants into Europe.

There's a weird disassociate humans make on things that kill us.
Disease, suicide, car crashes, work accidents, attacks from our own people and on and on, yet we fixate on immigrants, even though they do statistically insignificant damage to our societies.

As I've said before, the Bataclan attack made world headlines. The worst attack on Framce since WW2. An attack carried out by Belgians and French nationals on the French. 2 of 8 terrorists were non European. In terms of death, more people died on French roads in the 4 weeks leading up to the attack. Over 90% of the people inside the Bataclan escaped. Some though there was a fire, not an attack, yet it led to huge crackdowns and hatred towards immigrants who had zero to do with it.

I think the world has gone mad with their fear of terrorism. I think media portrays it as much worse than it actually is. We have irish lads with 100s of convictions terrorising us and not a word said, while 24 hour coverage about all the "hidden terrorists" among the refugees. A grand claim to make, since either can't be proven right or wrong.

I hate to Godwin the thread but i find it so hypocritical when people say "Oh we'd never let atrocities like the holocaust happen again" when we have hundreds of thousands killed in Syria, millions fleeing and people just don't want to know.

Dr Crayfish

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Actually come to think about it, our world may be, in some aspects, a bit more dangerous in 2017.

Obama rushed to release scores of highly dangerous prisoners days before Trump took office.

It is highly like Ibrahim Halawa will be released from prison and return to Ireland in 2017.

So yes, while it goes against the lefty vibe of the OP, there's two reasons we may face heightened risk in 2017.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to meet Chelsea Manning in a dark alley...

degsie

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But he's not letting in Catholics, Protestants or Jews from the same countries?

He is prioritising Christians from those countries.

RobertKK

degsie wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/trump-signs-executive-order-implementing-extreme-vetting-1.2954319

Bad news, it is more than Muslims. It makes nice propaganda to say it is only Muslims.
Anyone who has travelled to these countries are too, and people of all religions and none.
A CNN journalist who is not Muslim but said he has been to a number of these countries says he is affected too.

C. Montgomery Gurns

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Yeah, I wouldn't want to meet Chelsea Manning in a dark alley...

It probably is where you could find him hanging about :pac::pac:

I was referring to the Guantanamo prisoners mind. Although given the US murder rates I would be very surprised if one of the released drug offenders doesn't crop up sooner or later for a murder.

Atlantic Dawn

I suppose he is sticking to what he preached, unlike our turncoats.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Samuel T. Cogley

The man is doing what he said he'd do. I completely disagree with pretty much every policy he has and everything he stands for. He's a buffoon, but about the first politician that I can remeber that said he'd do something and then got on and did it.

The US has a constitution and the lawyers will sort it out. In the meantime fair play to the idiot.

DEFTLEFTHAND

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Actually come to think about it, our world may be, in some aspects, a bit more dangerous in 2017.

Obama rushed to release scores of highly dangerous prisoners days before Trump took office.

It is highly like Ibrahim Halawa will be released from prison and return to Ireland in 2017.

So yes, while it goes against the lefty vibe of the OP, there's two reasons we may face heightened risk in 2017.

Pardoned a man who was convicted of High Treason. In the old days you'd line up in front of a firing squad for that.

It's actually comical how the Dems can square this away with their claims that Putin rigged the election.

Darkglasses

Could've been us.

4068ac1elhodqr

He's a bit like the Ronseal Wood Stain TV adverts, he does exactly what he says on the tin (whether good or bad).

Now if he said he was going to bring in a new vast array of water charges, the electorate wouldn't have voted him in.

C. Montgomery Gurns

eeguy wrote: »

I think the world has gone mad with their fear of terrorism. I think media portrays it as much worse than it actually is. We have irish lads with 100s of convictions terrorising us and not a word said, while 24 hour coverage about all the "hidden terrorists" among the refugees. A grand claim to make, since either can't be proven right or wrong.

.

I do agree in part.

Are there thousands of ISIS operatives among the refugees? Probably not. Is there dozens of men who will arrive in Europe, become disillusioned, and resort to lone wolf attacks? Without a doubt. Why would they export so many of their footsoldiers? What people forget is that the ISIS leadership are not all Islamist radicals prepared to die. Many of them are secular former Saddam loyalists who realised portraying themselves as Islamists was the easiest way to gain recruits- the Che Guevara- esque politics of the Baath party just don't inspire Muslim youth like it used to.

jameorahiely

Obama banned Iranians in 2011. We're still standing

uck51js9zml2yt

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

We're going to build a wall from Dingle to Annascoul.

Most people here wouldn't know where annascull is;)

Yourself isit

jameorahiely wrote: »

Obama banned Iranians in 2011. We're still standing

Did he? Interesting.

Samuel T. Cogley

Toddlers have killed more people in the US than terrorists in recent years.

C. Montgomery Gurns

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

Toddlers have killed more people in the US than terrorists in recent years.

Since the Boston bombings attacks by ISIS inspired jihadis within the US have killed at least 72 people, in attacks involving at least 15 jihadis, 11 of whom are dead.

Have toddlers really killed 72 people in four years? There are 8 million US toddlers per calender year. 72 murders gives them a murder rate roughly on a par with the Republic of Ireland (36 per 4 million)

Samuel T. Cogley

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Since the Boston bombings attacks by ISIS inspired jihadis within the US have killed at least 72 people, in attacks involving at least 15 jihadis, 11 of whom are dead.

Have toddlers really killed 72 people in four years? There are 8 million US toddlers per calender year. 72 murders gives them a murder rate roughly on a par with the Republic of Ireland (36 per 4 million)

32 terrorist killings in 2016 I believe and 51 reported 'shootings' by toddlers. To be fair that's not the same as a death.

I think you get the general point however.

eeguy

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Since the Boston bombings attacks by ISIS inspired jihadis within the US have killed at least 72 people, in attacks involving at least 15 jihadis, 11 of whom are dead.

Have toddlers really killed 72 people in four years? There are 8 million US toddlers per calender year. 72 murders gives them a murder rate roughly on a par with the Republic of Ireland (36 per 4 million)

A child under 3 shoots themselves or someone else at least once a week in the US. Maybe not 72 kills, but 13 "suicides" and 2 deaths in 2015
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/
As the article says, it's probably hugely underreported in the media.

That said, the US averages 40 to 50 deaths per year from lightning.

bazz26

Alternative facts... people.

darkpagandeath

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

32 terrorist killings in 2016 I believe and 51 reported 'shootings' by toddlers. To be fair that's not the same as a death.

I think you get the general point however.

Yes America has a gun issue. And that does not detract from terrorist attacks.

rachb

eeguy wrote: »

There's a weird disassociate humans make on things that kill us.
Disease, suicide, car crashes, work accidents, attacks from our own people and on and on, yet we fixate on immigrants, even though they do statistically insignificant damage to our societies.

As I've said before, the Bataclan attack made world headlines. The worst attack on Framce since WW2. An attack carried out by Belgians and French nationals on the French. 2 of 8 terrorists were non European. In terms of death, more people died on French roads in the 4 weeks leading up to the attack. Over 90% of the people inside the Bataclan escaped. Some though there was a fire, not an attack, yet it led to huge crackdowns and hatred towards immigrants who had zero to do with it.

I think the world has gone mad with their fear of terrorism. I think media portrays it as much worse than it actually is. We have irish lads with 100s of convictions terrorising us and not a word said, while 24 hour coverage about all the "hidden terrorists" among the refugees. A grand claim to make, since either can't be proven right or wrong.

I hate to Godwin the thread but i find it so hypocritical when people say "Oh we'd never let atrocities like the holocaust happen again" when we have hundreds of thousands killed in Syria, millions fleeing and people just don't want to know.

So all the terrorist attacks in Europe and the USA have been insignificant?
How about the sexual assaults on women in Germany on New Years Eve 2015 or the sexual assaults on women in Austria on New Years Eve 2016?
How about the rape of a Swedish woman live on Facebook by immigrants they welcomed into their country?

eeguy

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

32 terrorist killings in 2016 I believe and 51 reported 'shootings' by toddlers. To be fair that's not the same as a death.

I think you get the general point however.

And who were the terrorists? How many we non American?

Samuel T. Cogley

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes America has a gun issue. And that does not detract from terrorist attacks.

I assume it would add to it!

However 200 times more people are killed by texting while driving than terrorism. I'd have thought one would want to start at the top of the list and work down.

The point being made here the avoidance of doubt is America does not have nor is it likely to, have a terrorist problem based on immigration. It's all political smokescreens.

Still the man said he's do it, people voted and he did it, gotta give him some props there.

C. Montgomery Gurns

rachb wrote: »

How about the rape of a Swedish woman live on Facebook by immigrants they welcomed into their country?

I saw a post in regards to this where someone commented "typical Sweden, well done, what a kip you have become" and the reply went "how do you know it was foreigners?"

I'd actually love to meet this type of mug, and challenge them to bet their house on the perps being named Lars, Erik and Sven rather than Abdul, Mahmoud and Fayaz. Too chicken to put their money where their mouth is without a doubt.

eeguy

rachb wrote: »

So all the terrorist attacks in Europe and the USA have been insignificant?
How about the sexual assaults on women in Germany on New Years Eve 2015 or the sexual assaults on women in Austria on New Years Eve 2016?
How about the rape of a Swedish woman live on Facebook by immigrants they welcomed into their country?

None are insignificant in and of themselves. They're all atrocious.

My point is that they statistically pale in comparison to what's already going on in these countries yet recieved disproportionately huge media emphasis.
Do you disagree with this?

Why spend huge resources to prevent rare occurances instead of focusing on more prevalent, home grown threats?

C. Montgomery Gurns

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

32 terrorist killings in 2016 I believe and 51 reported 'shootings' by toddlers. To be fair that's not the same as a death.

I think you get the general point however.

Wasn't there like 50 alone killed in the Orlando attack?


And with all due respect, a significant amount of people killed or wounded by gun wielding toddlers are their parents. Unlike the victims of terrorism, they deserve it for allowing their child near a gun.

Samuel T. Cogley

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Wasn't there like 50 alone killed in the Orlando attack?


And with all due respect, a significant amount of people killed or wounded by gun wielding toddlers are their parents. Unlike the victims of terrorism, they deserve it for allowing their child near a gun.

But don't they have a right to protect themselves with a loaded gun in every kitchen cabinet from the terrorists?

C. Montgomery Gurns

Libertarian Kant wrote: »

But don't they have a right to protect themselves with a loaded gun in every kitchen cabinet from the terrorists?

As a Trump supporter I will be the first to admit that his gun control policy is ludicrous. It is probably the only policy of his I think is mental.

Samuel T. Cogley

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

As a Trump supporter I will be the first to admit that his gun control policy is ludicrous. It is probably the only policy of his I think is mental.

So proportional responses aren't entirely crazy then?

The US doesn't need gun control, it needs ridiculous fear mongering control and a better mental health system.

lazybones32

I don't know Trump, I've never met him or had any contact with him but...<sob> I <sob>...but....<sob> I'm sorry, I can't go on...



That's okay. Your tears say more than any real evidence ever could.

Samuel T. Cogley

lazybones32 wrote: »

I don't know Trump, I've never met him or had any contact with him but...<sob> I <sob>...but....<sob> I'm sorry, I can't go on...



That's okay. Your tears say more than any real evidence ever could.

Are not some of the things he does generally quite well reported?

I've never met Enda Kenny but I still think he's a twat.

Mirror game

degsie wrote: »

. The world seems a little less safe right now.

I wouldn't say the world! but I reckon major US cities could become dangerous, especially for those airing their extreme views to the public.

No harm either, it's about time this they found out that they don't "own the finish line"

rachb

eeguy wrote: »

None are insignificant in and of themselves. They're all atrocious.

My point is that they statistically pale in comparison to what's already going on in these countries yet recieved disproportionately huge media emphasis.
Do you disagree with this?

Why spend huge resources to prevent rare occurances instead of focusing on more prevalent, home grown threats?

No I don't disagree with you but no attack will ever compare to the 9/11 attack where nearly 3000 innocent people died in 1 attack. That was a rare occurance but it was the biggest terrorist attack in history.

Ferrari3600

Stravos Murphy wrote: »

We're going to build a wall from Dingle to Annascoul.

About time!!!

Samuel T. Cogley

rachb wrote: »

No I don't disagree with you but no attack will ever compare to the 9/11 attack where nearly 3000 innocent people died in 1 attack. That was a rare occurance but it was the biggest terrorist attack in history.

And easily repeatable by parties that would never need to touch american soil.

eeguy

rachb wrote: »

No I don't disagree with you but no attack will ever compare to the 9/11 attack where nearly 3000 innocent people died in 1 attack. That was a rare occurance but it was the biggest terrorist attack in history.

Very true. That attack was 16 years ago this year and it can still be felt in the way the US conducts itself.
My point is that rare events are blown way out of proportion and people tend to believe things are much worse than they are. Then you get huge generalisation of an entire subcontinent through the actions of a few.
Say for instance if we heard an Arabic community had totally ostracised a rape victim and supported the perpetrator. We'd say they're a backward people with no respect for women's rights and it would be blasted all over the news for a week.
That happened in Tralee in 2009. You wouldn't say that the people of Ireland are backwards by association but you see it applied to Middle Eastern people all the time.