Child refugees -majority to be males aged 17???

Count Dooku

Brian? wrote: »

So sleeping in tents during a scalding hot summer an unprecedentedly cold winter doesn't make them worthy of your pity? They're not poor to you because they had the money to escape.

As I said a complete lack of empathy.

Do you mean that I should feel sorry for every outdoor tourist?
Those guys will be rewarded at the end of their trip by lifetime social benefits and chance stay out of work forever.
For money wasted by EU for handling illegal migrants last few years it would be possible to build enough housing and provide decent living conditions for all Syrian migrants in countries, like Jordan and Turkey. Money would finally reach women and children, not only 22 years old “kids”, who managed to sneak to EU
The only downside is that a lot of EU charities would lose steady cashflow

Brian?

jmayo wrote: »

Lets be fair technically some of them may be children, but they were old enough and hairy enough to get to France and then hang around the jungle, some for many years so they are not some wet behind the ears kids.

And as has been found out by other states the ages they claim to be and the reality are far from the same.
If anything it has been found the majority are lying about their ages.

In fact one Anis Amri upon his arrival in Lampedusa, Italy in February 2011 claimed he was a minor when in fact he was 19.

The supposed 15 year old asylum seeker in Sweden that stabbed 22-year-old aid worker Alexandra Mezher to death at an accommodation centre in Sweden in January 2016 was ruled to be actually an adult by Sweden’s migration agency.

BTW just because some agency designates them refugees doesn't alter fact most of them are actually just economic migrants and most of them aren't from Syria or Iraq.

So you find one extreme example and apply that to the entire group. I can't see any flaws in your logic.

It is getting to the stage where we can't now use our own indigenous terms because some muppet in some other country uses it in a different way and some assume we in Ireland aim to make the same point as the muppets.

And you are right context is key.
I don't think, or at least i would hope, the poster is some white supremacist or member of the KKK and we are not in the USA.

The context the poster used it in was precisely my issue. Talking about these "young bucks" sexual appetites. It was a bizarre and horrible post. It looked like they were echoing language I'd seen before, as I said, I'm not sure if they even knew the implications of the term.

BTW I was having the crack with the quare fellow down the road and he was complainin about that young bucko of his speedin round the place in his new car.
How many people have I upset with that sentence ?

You upset me by spelling craic wrong. That's about it. The context is very different. I believe that was my point.

Brian?

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do you mean that I should feel sorry for every outdoor tourist?

Don't be facetious. You know well there is huge difference between choosing to camp outdoors and a refugee camp.

Those guys will be rewarded at the end of their trip by lifetime social benefits and chance stay out of work forever.
For money wasted by EU for handling illegal migrants last few years it would be possible to build enough housing and provide decent living conditions for all Syrian migrants in countries, like Jordan and Turkey. Money would finally reach women and children, not only 22 years old “kids”, who managed to sneak to EU
The only downside is that a lot of EU charities would lose steady cashflow

You have no idea what will happen to these poor people. Either do I.

recedite

Brian? wrote: »

Don't be facetious. You know well there is huge difference between choosing to camp outdoors and a refugee camp.

Normal camping you have to bring your own food, sleeping bags and tent?

MaroonAndGreen

Brian? wrote: »

How does any 17 year old? What relevance does this have to taking in refugees.

Referring to these children as "bucks" is disgusting, it's a racist dog whistle and I don't know whether you even realise it.

They're children because they are under 18 and they are refugees because they have been designated as refugees. Any argument to the contrary is pointless.

Jesus. Embarrassed for you. Racist dog whistle? In fact, it's people getting sick of reading and listening to comments like that that has people voting for the likes of Trump. I think the world is getting sick of this PC dung.

As for the 17 year old migrant dealing with his "desires"... ask anyone from Sweden how they deal with it when relocated to an unfamiliar society. Or Germany, they've seen plenty of evidence of it too.

Amazing that Ireland has seemingly ignored clear and constant evidence that these migrants do not settle well into life in Western Europe. I sense we might look back on the decisions to take in migrants as disastrous when they inevitably fail to blend into our society.

God help us.

Brian?

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Jesus. Embarrassed for you. Racist dog whistle? In fact, it's people getting sick of reading and listening to comments like that that has people voting for the likes of Trump. I think the world is getting sick of this PC dung.

No need to be embarrassed for me. What I said was entirely accurate. People voted for Trump because they were scared of change and believed he could return the US to the country they grew up in.

As for the 17 year old migrant dealing with his "desires"... ask anyone from Sweden how they deal with it when relocated to an unfamiliar society. Or Germany, they've seen plenty of evidence of it too.

Amazing that Ireland has seemingly ignored clear and constant evidence that these migrants do not settle well into life in Western Europe. I sense we might look back on the decisions to take in migrants as disastrous when they inevitably fail to blend into our society.

God help us.

I'm sick of hearing refugees being stereotyped as rapists or sex offenders. The majority of posters on this thread are ready to believe they are rapists with zero evidence.

As I've said before, the lack of empathy being displayed here is horrible.

Mary63

Im a bit sick of the reports of women being molested in Sweden and Germany Brianh but you don't worry your head about that because these molesters won't be bothering you.


I was totally sickened that a Pakastani immigrant raped a Downs syndrome woman who became separated from her mother for a few minutes.Scumbag got her into his house and raped her and destroyed her life.He said he didn't know she had Downs syndrome because people with disabilities are locked into their homes in Pakistan so no one knows what they look like.This lowlife is now in prison and I hope he is deported the second he is due to be released.I hope actually the poor girls male relatives meet him on his way to the airport.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

Im a bit sick of the reports of women being molested in Sweden and Germany Brianh but you don't worry your head about that because these molesters won't be bothering you.

They are already bothering me. Why would I not care about it? Should it mean we don't give refuge to children?

I was totally sickened that a Pakastani immigrant raped a Downs syndrome woman who became separated from her mother for a few minutes.Scumbag got her into his house and raped her and destroyed her life.He said he didn't know she had Downs syndrome because people with disabilities are locked into their homes in Pakistan so no one knows what they look like.This lowlife is now in prison and I hope he is deported the second he is due to be released.I hope actually the poor girls male relatives meet him on his way to the airport.

I'm pretty sure everyone was sickened by that. Is every Pakistani immigrant a rapist because of it? No. Do only refugees commit sex crimes? No.

Brian?

The problem I see is the amount of fake news out there about reported sex assaults by refugees. Most are uncorroborated. I'd like to see some statistics on he number of sex crimes committed by refugees versus total population.

Here are some phoney stories you may have heard:

http://www.snopes.com/swedish-girl-refugee-assault-meme/

http://www.snopes.com/refugee-invaders-meme/

Mary63

Women have no rights in Pakistan, men are taught women are their property so father marries his daughters off as soon as she reaches puberty.These women hating men bring their beliefs with them while travelling to get into European cultures illegally.They are brain washed too by their religion which is also based on hatred of women.

Do you have daughters yourself Brianh, does it not bother you that most of the people we bring in will live in ghettoes rather than assimilate in a country where they believe women dressing and going where they wish are basically asking to be attacked.Do you not look at the experience Of France, The Netherlands, Brussels, Sweden, the UK, and now Germany and not realise that this country is going to have ghettoes full of Muslims too.How is this going to enrich our country, please don't make me laugh by saying we will all gell along together, why should our experience be any different to that of the other european countries who are richer and better Governed than us.

Do you not stop to think that since Angel of Mercy Merkel opened the doors, show me your huddled masses etc, that Germany has seen one terrorist threat after the other, none of these tragedies would have happened if Angela Merkel hasn't all on her own bat decided to let these people in.Could you please for one minute stop and actually listen to peoples fears for their children particularly their young daughters.You are male so nothing is going to change for you, you aren't the gender that is going to be molested on the crowded Dart carriage or harassed going aout your normal day, cop the hell on.

Brian?

Mary63 wrote: »

Women have no rights in Pakistan, men are taught women are their property so father marries his daughters off as soon as she reaches puberty.These women hating men bring their beliefs with them while travelling to get into European cultures illegally.They are brain washed too by their religion which is also based on hatred of women.

All terrible. Pakistan sound horrific. But again you're making assumptions that all Pakistani men hate women and are rapists. I object to stereotyping.

Do you have daughters yourself Brianh, does it not bother you that most of the people we bring in will live in ghettoes rather than assimilate in a country where they believe women dressing and going where they wish are basically asking to be attacked.

Why will they live in ghettos? The Muslim population in Ireland now are not ghettoised. We are not taking in enough refugees to create a ghetto.

Do you not look at the experience Of France, The Netherlands, Brussels, Sweden, the UK, and now Germany and not realise that this country is going to have ghettoes full of Muslims too.How is this going to enrich our country, please don't make me laugh by saying we will all gell along together, why should our experience be any different to that of the other european countries who are richer and better Governed than us.

How many refugees do you think we are taking in. Hundreds, not thousands. We aren't throwing the doors open and welcoming all comers.

Do you not stop to think that since Angel of Mercy Merkel opened the doors, show me your huddled masses etc, that Germany has seen one terrorist threat after the other, none of these tragedies would have happened if Angela Merkel hasn't all on her own bat decided to let these people in.Could you please for one minute stop and actually listen to peoples fears for their children particularly their young daughters.You are male so nothing is going to change for you, you aren't the gender that is going to be molested on the crowded Dart carriage or harassed going aout your normal day, cop the hell on.

This rant has zero to with what I said. I want Ireland to accept child refugees. I don't want my children, yes I have 2, growing up in a society that is so devoid of empathy we won't accept child refugees. I want my children to grow up in a society that judges people based on their actions, not their colour, culture or religion.

Do you think accepting child refugees is going to lead to a dystopian future where gangs of roaming Muslims will attack women with impunity?

Ronaldinho

Brian? wrote: »

The problem I see is the amount of fake news out there about reported sex assaults by refugees. Most are uncorroborated. I'd like to see some statistics on he number of sex crimes committed by refugees versus total population.

Here are some phoney stories you may have heard:

http://www.snopes.com/swedish-girl-refugee-assault-meme/

http://www.snopes.com/refugee-invaders-meme/

This website has put out a number of articles on the issue.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/topics/37/europes-migrant-crisis

In one of them it says: "Reliable statistics on sexual crimes committed by migrants are notoriously elusive."

Brian?

Ronaldinho wrote: »

This website has put out a number of articles on the issue.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/topics/37/europes-migrant-crisis

In one of them it says: "Reliable statistics on sexual crimes committed by migrants are notoriously elusive."

Chairman of the Gatestone Institute: John Bolton. If I find myself on the same side as John Bolton, I reassess my position fairly quickly. He's an odious man.

Ronaldinho

Brian? wrote: »

Chairman of the Gatestone Institute: John Bolton. If I find myself on the same side as John Bolton, I reassess my position fairly quickly. He's an odious man.

"If I find myself on the same side " I really take issue with this sort of attitude. It's like when you watch footage of the Dail or the UK Parliament and when one party is speaking the other one will heckle and never has a good word to say about the other, ever.

That website pushes a fairly obvious agenda.... but it does a good job of collating a lot of news which I otherwise wouldn't see because of language barriers or because it isn't published here in Ireland.

Mary63

Well,er, yes I do believe gangs of Muslim men are a threat, Cologne is never far from mind.Neither is the teenage immigrant housed with a very generous German family.He was seventeen supposedly and he took a hatchet from his foster home and attacked an innocent tourist on a train In Germany, I think the poor woman was from Hong kong.

These immigrants and they are mostly young men are bringing their norms and values with them.They have no conception that women aren't there for anything other than to be mauled, their attitude is if they covered up they wouldn't be tempting the men so they are asking for everything that comes to them.They can act with impunity in whatever 8th century country they have come from so they think they can behave as they like in Western Europe too.

I don't believe any of the men coming from Calais are teenagers, I think France wants to get rid of them as far from France as possible so Zappone was handed a list of people and told they are yours.They are economic migrants who want to get to the UK or Germany so its utterly pointless is us even taking them, never mind spending 50 million we don't have trying to detain them in some remote place in the middle of nowhere that doesn't have a mass of locals to mount a protest.There wouldnt be a hope of placing these economic migrants in any area In Dublin with an even number post code, there would be uproar so some poor community with nothing going for it is going to get them.

Anyway time will tell, I bet no matter where they are placed they will abscond within weeks to the UK, they are resourceful and wiley and even the french couldn't control them, we haven't a hope.

Brian?

Ronaldinho wrote: »

"If I find myself on the same side " I really take issue with this sort of attitude. It's like when you watch footage of the Dail or the UK Parliament and when one party is speaking the other one will heckle and never has a good word to say about the other, ever.

I wouldn't say it very often, but John Bolton is a horrible human being.

That website pushes a fairly obvious agenda.... but it does a good job of collating a lot of news which I otherwise wouldn't see because of language barriers or because it isn't published here in Ireland.

It seems to only collate opinion pieces aligned to the same agenda.

Ronaldinho

Brian? wrote: »

I wouldn't say it very often, but John Bolton is a horrible human being.



It seems to only collate opinion pieces aligned to the same agenda.

Agreed - it absolutely only collates those pieces that fit it's viewpoint BUT that doesn't NECESSARILY mean these things aren't true. A huge percentage of the stuff they right is purely factual.

Naturally nobody should rely on a single website like this in order to form their opinion.

Brian?

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Agreed - it absolutely only collates those pieces that fit it's viewpoint BUT that doesn't NECESSARILY mean these things aren't true. A huge percentage of the stuff they right is purely factual.

Naturally nobody should rely on a single website like this in order to form their opinion.

It's tough to go through each story and and verify but. But I'm fairly sure most are true or contain some truth. But again, context is very important.

Before we can say taking in refugees leads to a higher rate of sex crime, we need to know if 1. Sex crime has increased and 2. Who is committing them.

I'm going to reiterate. I'm in favour of taking in children from the camp in Calais. People on this thread have decided that they aren't children and are likely rapists. Yet I'm being told to "cop on".

recedite

Brian? wrote: »

I'm in favour of taking in children from the camp in Calais. People on this thread have decided that they aren't children and are likely rapists. Yet I'm being told to "cop on".

The French are also in favour of us taking the children.
Here's some of them, out playing on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RSOkdrzYJg

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

The French are also in favour of us taking the children.
Here's some of them, out playing on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RSOkdrzYJg

Growing up in Tallaght I've seen kids do things far worse. Should we have been locked in a camp?

recedite

Nobody has them locked up, they are free to go on the rampage.
Which might explain why the French authorities are so keen to have them sent to Co. Mayo.
EU "solidarity" and all that. We need to chip in a bit more.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

All terrible. Pakistan sound horrific. But again you're making assumptions that all Pakistani men hate women and are rapists. I object to stereotyping.

All the men of any particular race don't actually need to be rapists, for those who are to cause significant problems in the area where they carry out their attacks.

Nor is stating the obvious "All of them aren't rapists" any comfort whatsoever to the victims.

We actually need collated statistics to assess threat levels, and plan a response, if necessary.
There is absolutely no chance that we will get one, imo, because "Racial profiling is racist" etc etc.

A list of facts cannot be racist.

Definition of racism: (Source, oxforddictionaries.com)

[mass noun] Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior: ‘a programme to combat racism’

1.1 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: ‘theories of racism’

Racism is a term that is thrown around too loosely, imo, as is stereotyping.

If I say X% of men of Nationality A have been convicted of sex crimes, how is that racist? I haven't said all men of that Nationality are rapists.

Minimising, or preventing the publication of facts only causes people who are concerned to wonder why the facts aren't available.

eg. Not publishing an identikit of Anis Amri was ridiculous.
Trying to cover up the Cologne attacks was ridiculous, as was Sweden suppressing the facts about attacks at a concert.

Far from preventing prejudice, those incidents exacerbate prejudice - and, indeed, are in themselves prejudiced against the victims.

Then, there's the issue of other would-be attackers being emboldened by what they may perceive as impunity because of the reaction to the initial attacks...

I'm not aiming those observations specifically at you, btw.
They're more a response to the way incidents to date have been dealt with.

Brian? wrote: »

How many refugees do you think we are taking in. Hundreds, not thousands. We aren't throwing the doors open and welcoming all comers.

4,000, before family reunification.

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

Nobody has them locked up, they are free to go on the rampage.
Which might explain why the French authorities are so keen to have them sent to Co. Mayo.
EU "solidarity" and all that. We need to chip in a bit more.

So what's actually your point? Even a counter point to my own would do nicely.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

The French are also in favour of us taking the children.
Here's some of them, out playing on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RSOkdrzYJg

The poor wee fellas, sure they're only trying to get to where they want to go.
It's a wee tantrum, they'll settle down in a minute!:rolleyes:

Brian? wrote: »

Growing up in Tallaght I've seen kids do things far worse. Should we have been locked in a camp?

Probably.:D
A short stay in a camp might have made ye consider whether it was worth it!

recedite

Brian? wrote: »

So what's actually your point?

To be fair to these lads, they are showing initiative and teamwork.
How many Irish children (outside of Tallaght, as you say ) would be able to come that close to smashing their way into a moving lorry?

Maybe, if we spend the €250K on each one, they can be rehabilitated and retrained, and their energy redirected towards gainful employment.

But for each one that succeeds in his quest to live the European dream, he will text/twitter/instagram the good news back to his home village or town, and 10 or even 100 more will set out on the same journey.
What is the population of Africa again?

Brian?

recedite wrote: »

To be fair to these lads, they are showing initiative and teamwork.
How many Irish children (outside of Tallaght, as you say ) would be able to come that close to smashing their way into a moving lorry?

Maybe, if we spend the €250K on each one, they can be rehabilitated and retrained, and their energy redirected towards gainful employment.

But for each one that succeeds in his quest to live the European dream, he will text/twitter/instagram the good news back to his home village or town, and 10 or even 100 more will set out on the same journey.
What is the population of Africa again?

Your point?

recedite

Better to spend that money in Africa.
That's what the Chinese are doing; building infrastructure in various African countries; railways and mines etc..
They get their minerals and resources, the locals get jobs. There is plenty of untapped potential in Africa.

What is the point of Africans coming here to live on social welfare when there is plenty of work to be done at home?

rgossip30

Brian? wrote: »

It's tough to go through each story and and verify but. But I'm fairly sure most are true or contain some truth. But again, context is very important.

Before we can say taking in refugees leads to a higher rate of sex crime, we need to know if 1. Sex crime has increased and 2. Who is committing them.

I'm going to reiterate. I'm in favour of taking in children from the camp in Calais. People on this thread have decided that they aren't children and are likely rapists. Yet I'm being told to "cop on".

These 'children ' cannot be accurately accessed 16/17 year old . The dna evidence is inaccurate by 4.7 years and dental records in the UK were deemed invasive .I am pretty sure they will say the same here .They will have to supply these young bucks with women to keep them happy too .

Brian? wrote: »

Your point?

Simply many more will come and do risking the crossing in the Med thought that was obvious .

http://www.euronews.com/2016/07/28/italian-campaign-warns-would-be-migrants-against-travelling-to-europe

fran17

recedite wrote: »

Better to spend that money in Africa.
That's what the Chinese are doing; building infrastructure in various African countries; railways and mines etc..
They get their minerals and resources, the locals get jobs. There is plenty of untapped potential in Africa.

What is the point of Africans coming here to live on social welfare when there is plenty of work to be done at home?

There is a term that was used widely until political correctness infected the modern world and that was 'The white man's burden'.Never has this term been more relevant than today as in the past the Islamic/third world,due to geographical and military reasons,was unable to threaten western civilisation.Today this threat is very real and it is incumbent upon the west to once again bestow our morals,ethics and beliefs upon these people.To not do will result in the destruction of what the last 2500 years has rewarded us with today.

jmayo

Brian? wrote: »

So you find one extreme example and apply that to the entire group. I can't see any flaws in your logic.

That is only a small sample.
It is two of the most famous ones.
Of course you and your side of the argument will demand verifying facts and statistics whilst on your side your opinion is weight enough.

BTW Canada is now also having problems with so called "Syrian migrant/refugee" children.
And much like European countries they are trying their best to sweep it under the carpet.

I guess it is ok if it isn't your daughter, your sister having some hairy probably over 18 "child" shove his hand down their pants.

Brian? wrote: »

...
I'm sick of hearing refugees being stereotyped as rapists or sex offenders. The majority of posters on this thread are ready to believe they are rapists with zero evidence.

As I've said before, the lack of empathy being displayed here is horrible.

Have you ever wondered why public swimming pools in Germany have been banning refugees/migrants ?
Have you wondered why German girls and women were no longer going to them and actually in some places not going out on their own ?

Have you wondered why there was such a huge police presence in German cities for last New Years Eve ?

Yes not all refugees/migrants are rapists or even worse paedophiles, but your living in denial central if you think that there aren't a fair few amongst them.

And maybe even worse that you may actually not believe it is a major problem that most of the refugees/migrants are young men who are highly misogynistic and come from a background and culture that has feck all respect for women and womens' right as equals.