The Last Of Us 2

johnny_ultimate

Blaze420 wrote: »

something from the lgbt spectrum to be shoehorned in.

No need to shoehorn anything in since Naughty Dog has been overtly exploring Ellie's sexuality since back in Left Behind (which, for a plethora of reasons beyond its LGBT bonafides, I still think is the most effective story ND has told to date)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pgeRTh-Hs

Blaze420

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

No need to shoehorn anything in since Naughty Dog has been overtly exploring Ellie's sexuality since back in Left Behind (which, for a plethora of reasons beyond its LGBT bonafides, I still think is the most effective story ND has told to date)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pgeRTh-Hs

Don’t get me wrong, I have no issue with scenes like that and I think it will be interesting for the story. But there’s simply no way that’s the whole iceberg if Anita is involved, and that’s what I’m worried about. I’ll wait for reviews on this but her name alone has wiped this off my hype list

I agree. I have no issue with a strong female lead or a non straight protagonist, why would I? But with sarkesian involved, I am unwilling to believe that it won't be made a focal point rather than a character attribute.

My character's sexuality or gender is not something that I want front and foremost in my games.

Sadly, this is why I cancelled my pre order. I hope I was wrong but I doubt I am.

johnny_ultimate

Anita Sarkeesian isn’t involved in the game :???: Neil Druckmann once said he respected some points she made in her videos, and now suddenly some clickbait sites seem to make out like she’s the bloody lead writer on the thing.

You’d swear the way she’s made out to be she’s actively walking in and stealing copies of the game and replacing them with Germaine Greer literature.

Zero-Cool

Yeah are there any facts that Anita is a writer on it?

Anyway, Neil has announced the game has gone gold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC-eYFDLTD0

Blaze420

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Anita Sarkeesian isn’t involved in the game :???: Neil Druckmann once said he respected some points she made in her videos, and now suddenly some clickbait sites seem to make out like she’s the bloody lead writer on the thing.

You’d swear the way she’s made out to be she’s actively walking in and stealing copies of the game and replacing them with Germaine Greer literature.

Nope check your sources again, she’s had input. That’s pure poison for any game and especially a game of this magnitude.

Leroy42

So, for may the idea that this Anita one is even mentioned in the same breath is enough to cancel an order?

One of the key driving factors behind the success of TLOU was the interaction between the characters and the emotional attachment we had we each of them. Even the lessor characters impacted. Tess and Henry scenes were pretty gut wrenching, IMO, so I have no reason to think that Neil and ND won't bring the same level of story telling and emotional attachment to this game.

Maybe they won't, maybe they have got lost up their own ar5es, the difficult 2nd album and all that, but I will wait and see it rather than read some YTers rant about it.

I love Angry Joe, but think he is wrong on this. He first said he wouldn't read the links, said it wasn't right, but then he heard the leaks and suddenly all bets are off and his p1ssed. He hasn't played the game, he really doesn't know what he is talking about.

THe signals coming out are that this game is going to tell a very different story than TLOU. But that is cool. I already own a copy of TLOU, I don't need an updated graphics version. I want something new something different. I want ND to make me think outside me usual world, to feel things from another POV, to try to understand other people emotions and motivaions.

Leroy42

Blaze420 wrote: »

Nope check your sources again, she’s had input. That’s pure poison for any game and especially a game of this magnitude.

What type of input though, that is the question. Is it a lead writer, a lead developer? Or maybe just someone offering advice on how to tell a certain story from an angle that Neil wouldn't be overly familiar with?

Barlett

I have no idea who Anita is, but a quick look on her Twitter confirms she has no involvement in the Last of Us 2, other than Neil Druckmann respects her her work.

'The creator of the game they are mad at has said in the past that he found value in my work (as did so many other game creators but that doesn't matter here). Therefore I personally ruined the game.'

Blaze420

Barlett wrote: »

I have no idea who Anita is, but a quick look on her Twitter confirms she has no involvement in the Last of Us 2, other than Neil Druckmann respects her her work.

'The creator of the game they are mad at has said in the past that he found value in my work (as did so many other game creators but that doesn't matter here). Therefore I personally ruined the game.'

Well we will wait for reviews so and that will paint a more accurate picture - I’m still avoiding spoilers but threads online calling this the woke of us 2 is not inspiring confidence. I’d personally say she had some input that has ruined this - I’m mad to see the spoilers just to reaffirm that but general reaction right now is not good. I defo won’t be buying this on release until it’s cleared up

johnny_ultimate

Blaze420 wrote: »

Nope check your sources again

I checked multiple sources, where’s the evidence she was involved? ‘Angry man ranting on YouTube’ is all I’ve seen, and I don’t consider that a reliable source. As ever, happy to be proven wrong if I’m looking at the wrong information (although I should stress I couldn’t care less if she did have some vague input)

2u2me

Leroy42 wrote: »

What are you talking about, what cannon? This is his game, he can tell it whatever way he wants. Do you get this upset about other forms of art?

I'm talking about the canon of this game. Maybe you haven't played this game, but this game is much more like a movie then you think.
I don't get upset about this or other forms of art, thanks for the insinuation.

He has no obligation to stick to whatever version of the story would keep you satisfied. He makes, you either buy it or not.

Makes me satisfied? There is a definite ring of emotional outrage from your response. Never said he did have an obligation to do anything, only that he loses artistic integrity by pandering. The game suffers as a consequence.

Anti-consumer? Do you think firms are anti-consumer when they make a product that you don't like?

No idea what you're talking about. I never mentioned any products I like or don't like.

They are trying to target a different audience than normal, trying to expand the video game market. It might end up losing more than it gains, but that is the chance you take on trying anything new.

That's fine as long as it's something new, as I stated in my original post. But here they are using an existing franchise and altering the canon.

The fact that you think that they deserve criminals to steal from them is pretty telling. You have let your views on their agenda warp your morals. If people are treated badly working there, well there are laws and the ultimate sanction is to walk out.

Find in my post where I said they deserve criminals to steal from them. Your inference is just ridiculous, there is a clear bias in your replies. Have you ever even played the last of us?

Why would any other game company even try to develop anything new if this is the type of reaction they are going to get? Stick to Fifa, Street Fighter and endless versions of CoD.

This isn't a new game. The last of us 2. They already have an immersive world containing it's own canon.

“This is a story about hate – an intense, harrowing, and emotional adventure,” said The Last of Us 2’s creative director at a 2016 panel.

Leroy42

There you go again with this canon stuff. What do you mean? You seem to be suggesting that they need to stick to whatever was in the first game. This is the next chapter, not a rerun. Ellie is older, time has moved on, things have changed. There is no need to stick to some 'canon' as you seem to think t should be. Do you know any teenagers, do you think they stay the same from 14 to 19?

Why would everything else stay then same. Of there there will be something new in this game, otherwise what is the point. Are you really wanting another game where Joel goes around kicking everyone's arse and Ellie just trails along behind him? Joel had his story, now its turns to Ellie and her life.

You said you found it hard to have sympathy for Neil. Well, most people have sympathy for others when sometimes unfair or bad happens to them. The fact that, in some small way, you think he deserves this is clear from your post.

But all of this is totally irrelevant. We haven't played the game so nobody can comment on what it is like to play it. Neil showed, in TLOU, to have a gift for telling his story in the way of a video game. Can he do it again? I don't know, but I won't be letting people getting upset because a few things they are not comfortable with take place put me off.

And about hate. Exactly. This is a very different game than the last one. The last was about hope, believing people can overcome hardship and cruelty to find love and care for others. I get the feeling that this is more about revenge, hate, hurting others and being self destructive.

It is only my opinion, but I get the feeling that some many parts of this game we are going to dislike Ellie

2u2me

When Game of Thrones ended people were equally 'outraged' because it fell short of the canon that they built up for 5-6 seasons.
Even after they had seen it.

J. Marston

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I checked multiple sources, where’s the evidence she was involved? ‘Angry man ranting on YouTube’ is all I’ve seen, and I don’t consider that a reliable source. As ever, happy to be proven wrong if I’m looking at the wrong information (although I should stress I couldn’t care less if she did have some vague input)

A clip of him giving a speech and being influenced by her work has been floating around the internet for the last week or so. It's all the ammo needed for the crowd that hate on her and that stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHynFVW7-KY

I will say this though; I don't know how old the clip is but I don't like his implication that we're still in the days of tits and ass female characters.

Aloy, Jill, Claire, Senua, Kassandra, Alyx, Max, Faith, reboot Lara. Having a woman protagonist in a game not spilling out of her top isn't some message these days. It's the norm. Don't think you're special for doing it too.

Blaze420

J. Marston wrote: »

A clip of him giving a speech and being influenced by her work has been floating around the internet for the last week or so. It's all the ammo needed for the crowd that hate on her and that stuff...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHynFVW7-KY

I will say this though; I don't know how old the clip is but I don't like his implication that we're still in the days of tits and ass female characters.

[b{Aloy, Jill, Claire, Senua, Kassandra, Alyx, Max, Faith, reboot Lara. Having a woman protagonist in a game not spilling out of her top isn't some message these days. It's the norm. Don't think you're special for doing it too.[/b]

Careful what you wish for because if Anita is involved you can forget about any of that. Expect manly women and some shoehorned LGbxyz reference because that’s her MO.

She doesn’t care about video game’s and she has no right to critique them but yet she does so here we are

YouSavedMyLife

Read some new leeks on 4chan just now, it details the whole game pretty much. Stop getting worked up, everything is fine. If people are angry because one of the characters is a female who is buff then they need to cop the **** on. After reading this leak and assuming it to be the full story (early leaks didn't detail everything) there is nothing to worry about for any normal, sane, rational human being.

Also, i wish i didn't spoil the game.

Zero-Cool

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

Read some new leeks on 4chan just now, it details the whole game pretty much. Stop getting worked up, everything is fine. If people are angry because one of the characters is a female who is buff then they need to cop the **** on. After reading this leak and assuming it to be the full story (early leaks didn't detail everything) there is nothing to worry about for any normal, sane, rational human being.

Also, i wish i didn't spoil the game.

Jesus, the full game story out there, thanks for the heads up man. I thought comments online were getting better, less spoilers in the last couple of days but will probably ramp up again.

Blaze420

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

Read some new leeks on 4chan just now, it details the whole game pretty much. Stop getting worked up, everything is fine. If people are angry because one of the characters is a female who is buff then they need to cop the **** on. After reading this leak and assuming it to be the full story (early leaks didn't detail everything) there is nothing to worry about for any normal, sane, rational human being.

Also, i wish i didn't spoil the game.

Buff??? You’re vague enough but I’m assuming that female can’t just be a standard female knowing Anita - is it a trans thing?

johnny_ultimate

Still waiting for that evidence that Anita is “involved” in the project, other than Druckmann watched her videos once

J. Marston

YouSavedMyLife wrote: »

Read some new leeks on 4chan just now, it details the whole game pretty much. Stop getting worked up, everything is fine. If people are angry because one of the characters is a female who is buff then they need to cop the **** on. After reading this leak and assuming it to be the full story (early leaks didn't detail everything) there is nothing to worry about for any normal, sane, rational human being.

Also, i wish i didn't spoil the game.

Oh do be quiet, I'm allowed to think it's a bad story without being called irrational or not normal.

Zero-Cool

Blaze420 wrote: »

Buff??? You’re vague enough but I’m assuming that female can’t just be a standard female knowing Anita - is it a trans thing?

I remember a muscly woman from an older trailer, figure it's her/him/who gives a ****.

Can Anita be blamed for being a possible influence on the creator. Anything in this is solely on Neil and the writers unless Anita is credited. I have no love for her but it's comments like that help spread fake news, as they say.

johnny_ultimate

Mod note: Just FYI any misogynistic or abusive language is not going to be tolerated in this forum. Thanks.

Blaze420

Zero-Cool wrote: »

I remember a muscly woman from an older trailer, figure it's her/him/who gives a ****.

Can Anita be blamed for being a possible influence on the creator. Anything in this is solely on Neil and the writers unless Anita is credited. I have no love for her but it's comments like that help spread fake news, as they say.

Enjoy it for what it is man but I won’t - can’t support a product that’s drowning in wokeness like this game.

2u2me

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Still waiting for that evidence that Anita is “involved” in the project, other than Druckmann watched her videos once

Seems a bit of a red herring, do you have any doubt on how much of an influence she has been on his making of games?

Here's Druckmann presenting an award to Anita in 2014. He drank the koolaid and then some.

According to one of the spoilers that's going around,

there is a character who clearly looks like Neil Druckmann in the game. This character is in love with a non-binary minority. The non-binary kills the "generic white guy protagonist" and then the Druckmann character spits on his corpse

I hope to god this is a troll job. If it's true it has to be one of the most ham-fisted attempts at symbolism in the history of fiction. It will also go down as one of the weirdest

self-inserts

in gaming.

I hope it's a troll job but apparently video footage exists. It would have to be a very elaborate troll job to get all the graphics and motion capture to the quality of a Naughty Dog game. If this is true, holy ****.

This whole thing is like watching a train wreck.

johnny_ultimate

2u2me wrote: »

Seems a bit of a red herring

How is it a red herring? Several people here and elsewhere have claimed she's 'involved' in the game, to the point she's now receiving a fresh torrent of online abuse (have just had to delete a couple of examples of it in this very thread). It's not unreasonable to ask for evidence that she's involved when people are claiming they're cancelling their pre-orders because of her alleged 'involvement'. Important to put any misinformation to rest, I'm sure you'll agree

World of difference between someone having some impact on the wider discourse around video games, and being directly involved in a production. Also a firm believer that nobody ever deserves abuse because somebody didn't like a bloody video game (even one they've actually played!), let alone a woman who had no role in it.

2u2me

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

How is it a red herring?

Perhaps if you answered my question that was posed it would answer that.

2u2me wrote: »

Seems a bit of a red herring, do you have any doubt on how much of an influence she has been on his making of games?

The church weren't involved directly in the making of "The Passion of the Christ" , but it would be a red herring to say the church had no role in it and didn't warrant criticism.

The Passion of the Christ is a Roman Catholic movie, made by a Roman Catholic director, with Roman Catholic theological advisers, and which gained the endorsement of Pope John Paul II who said after viewing it "It is as it was."

Penn

2u2me wrote: »

Perhaps if you answered my question that was posed it would answer that.



The church weren't involved directly in the making of "The Passion of the Christ" , but it would be a red herring to say the church had no role in it and didn't warrant criticism.

:D:D

F*cking hell...

Retr0gamer

BruteStock wrote: »

One thing the SJW types revel in is , suppression of thought and freedom of speech.

See that's the thing most right wingers, women haters, racists and anti-liberals forget about freedom of speech. It works both ways.

You have the freedom to say whatever nonsense you like but equally people have the right to call you out on your ballocks when you are talking ballocks. It's not suppression of thought and freedom of speech, it's suppression of hate speech and bull****.

2u2me wrote: »

Perhaps if you answered my question that was posed it would answer that.

You didn't ask a question though. You are just baiting a response by failing to answer the first question and throwing the burden of response back on the person that asked the original question. It's a good way to wriggle out of a response when you've no evidence to back it up.