The Last Of Us 2

Zero-Cool

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I am not buying that. Reads like PR spin. Someone with access to all of that. Of course it was an insider.

Even though it says the leaker has no ties, I'd say it still came from an employee who handed it to said leaker. Either way, the guy is going to get sued to the moon and we'll find out exactly how he got it.

I'm seeing very little spoilers online now, just majority of comments saying they don't like the way the game is going and cancelling their preorder, way more than usual. I obviously don't want spoilers but can't seem to think what would make so many people feel like this.

FAILSAFE 00

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Even though it says the leaker has no ties, I'd say it still came from an employee who handed it to said leaker. Either way, the guy is going to get sued to the moon and we'll find out exactly how he got it.

I'm seeing very little spoilers online now, just majority of comments saying they don't like the way the game is going and cancelling their preorder, way more than usual. I obviously don't want spoilers but can't seem to think what would make so many people feel like this.

It sounds like it could make a great Netflix crime story

Zero-Cool

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

It sounds like it could make a great Netflix crime story

Speaking of, Ozark season 3 was great, what an ending!

BruteStock

its crazy what Druckmann is doing in the sequel. A lot of unnecessary divisiveness is being put into the story. A normal person would want his creation to be loved by everybody. It just shows how consumed people are by personal politics and agendas when they are that far on the left.

Druckman made it very clear what motivated the new characters when giving a presentation in which he referenced Feminist Frequency. But its some sort of disorder to complain about misogyny in games , then combat it by making the women butch and manly looking.

They deliberately gave Abby a tight top , then designed her melons to look like flaps - man pecs. . Dina's canons are merely a fraction of what they are in real life. These are sick people we are dealing with.

....Spoilers , below.....

The original trailer makes a lot more sense now when watching it back

White Christians are hunting down all the minority's and alphabet people . "clip her wings" is a religious reference.

A MOH game 10 years ago came under massive criticism cos the bad guys were Taliban members

https://www.wired.com/2010/10/medal-of-honor-taliban/

Christians should be left out of it , same as all other religions.

Its a cowardly double standard that bothers me.

Druckmann has basically shunned the majority of his fan-base to appeal to people that didn't even care about the first game. Having a daughter of a slain NPC come back to seek and get revenge is dreadful story telling. Nobody gave a fiddlers about that NPC which was on the screen for about 3 seconds.


Hope the game flops. It won't , but it won't meet the sales it would have if it was done properly either

Robert ninja

BruteStock wrote: »

Druckman made it very clear what motivated the new character when giving a presentation in which he referenced Feminist Frequency.

And I remember the ponces around here blabbering on about how things like this won't change your games or how hobbies can't be invaded. :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5UXp-TbPhM

J. Marston

Mods should delete the last two posts from those gowls.

Sand

The leaks are overall a good thing for everyone. I don't think there is any loss to a story being 'spoiled'. People still go to see Shakespeare, despite knowing how the story ends, because a good story well told is still worth enjoying. Bad stories rely on shock value alone.

Those who don't like the direction of the story (and lets face it, the old 'cycle of revenge is bad' and 'white Christians are evil' tropes are a bit tiresome) can save themselves time and money, and instead play games they'll enjoy more. Imagine if you could have been warned about Season 8 of GOT before wasting seventy hours of your life on it?

Those who do like the direction of the story because it ticks some boxes can virtue signal. Everyone wins from the leaks. Even the devs - they may suffer a fall in sales but the franchise has such weight behind it from the first title that it will still be very successful no matter how bad it is.

I presume the devs will forgive and embrace the leakers - revenge is bad afterall.

gimli2112

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Even though it says the leaker has no ties, I'd say it still came from an employee who handed it to said leaker. Either way, the guy is going to get sued to the moon and we'll find out exactly how he got it.

I'm seeing very little spoilers online now, just majority of comments saying they don't like the way the game is going and cancelling their preorder, way more than usual. I obviously don't want spoilers but can't seem to think what would make so many people feel like this.

I imagine a lot of people posting they are cancelling their pre-orders don't own a playstation. The sub-set of people outraged over this (which I'm assuming is some LGBT issue) will not overlap much with people who play videogames, imo. It would take something north of Armegeddon for me to cancel my pre-order.

Chris_Heilong

Brilliantly accurate breakdown (Not about the game story just how we got here)

Leroy42

I usually like the Critical Drinker, but why is there this rush to call a game that nobody has actually played yet?

All this "I don't like where this story is heading" nonsense without knowing the actual context or how the stories are dealt with.

CD clearly does not like the feminist agenda, or at least what he feels is a feminist agenda. Its funny, because when all the heros where straight white guys they didn't seem to have such trouble with Hollywood or game companies 'agendas'.

Maybe ND has an agenda, it would certainly appear that he has taken a particular view on where and how this game is going to go. But the telling part will be whether he lets that agenda get in the way of the story. It is not that the criticisms may not be fair, but the very same criticisms could be leveled at many games and movies but aren't because they are called out for just being rubbish, rather than being rubbish because of an agenda.

OptimusTractor

Leroy42 wrote: »

I usually like the Critical Drinker, but why is there this rush to call a game that nobody has actually played yet?

All this "I don't like where this story is heading" nonsense without knowing the actual context or how the stories are dealt with.

CD clearly does not like the feminist agenda, or at least what he feels is a feminist agenda. Its funny, because when all the heros where straight white guys they didn't seem to have such trouble with Hollywood or game companies 'agendas'.

Maybe ND has an agenda, it would certainly appear that he has taken a particular view on where and how this game is going to go. But the telling part will be whether he lets that agenda get in the way of the story. It is not that the criticisms may not be fair, but the very same criticisms could be leveled at many games and movies but aren't because they are called out for just being rubbish, rather than being rubbish because of an agenda.

Betcha 99GB of the rumored 100GB download is actually a feminist trojan virus that will be uploaded to our brains through the controller upon starting the story.

I'll have to change my moniker to OptimusFiat500 or something.

Zero-Cool

Ripley's believe it or not.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1256893468263305216?s=19

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1256894551031271424?s=19

deceit

Zero-Cool wrote: »

Ripley's believe it or not.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1256893468263305216?s=19

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1256894551031271424?s=19

If this is true, it would say they have atrocious security allowing them to jump from a DMZ based server or even an externally hosted system such as in Azure/AWS (Game server, no need for these to be on the Lan) to an internal system which would store the game footage. The CISO would have some serious questions to answer after that.
For a relatively small company how would they not notice gigs of traffic going from one zone to another. If they got on the network like that their are a lot worse things than them having the video footage to worry about.
Hopefully this is not the case and they maybe had the footage on a remote server for sharing with 3rd parties for preview purposes.
Either way if it was a hack, they would have to officially disclose it especially as they have mentioned it.
Have any of their old games gone offline? This would suggest this was actually the cause of it.

Zero-Cool

Here's another person claiming insider info saying it was a hack.

https://twitter.com/PixelButts/status/1256792950136172550?s=19

Leroy42

I feel really sorry for ND, all the developers and Neil. Regardless of the source of the leak, to have your work stolen and given out across the internet must be so frustrating.

To then have it compounded by YTers complaining that their videos discussing the illegal information being taken down strikes me as really odd.

This information was obtained illegally, continuing to discuss it is giving that person exactly what they wanted.

Regardless of the storyline, peoples feelings on agendas or whatever, this is peoples work and livelihoods we are talking about.

We were going to find all this out when the game released, but those saying that they are cancelling pre orders need to consider why they preorder in the 1st place.

BruteStock

Leroy42 wrote: »

I feel really sorry for ND, all the developers and Neil. Regardless of the source of the leak, to have your work stolen and given out across the internet must be so frustrating.

To then have it compounded by YTers complaining that their videos discussing the illegal information being taken down strikes me as really odd.

This information was obtained illegally, continuing to discuss it is giving that person exactly what they wanted.

Regardless of the storyline, peoples feelings on agendas or whatever, this is peoples work and livelihoods we are talking about.

We were going to find all this out when the game released, but those saying that they are cancelling pre orders need to consider why they preorder in the 1st place.

Neil can go f himself in his own ass. He deserves everything that has befallen him for deciding to make the long awaited sequel , not for his fanbase , but for the perpetually offended pearl-clutchers that exist within the echo chambers of twitter.

That alone may not be justifiable enough for his game to be leaked , but bullying female staff out of the company and subjecting slave conditions to staff of said company , certainly is.

Its very believable some developer got treated like carp and snapped. I've been in those pressure situations before. You are dehumanised. Its very frustrating and rage provoking. I don't believe for a second that an outside hacker was responsible.

Furthermore , you should not feel sorry or care for Neil and his crew , as i can assure you , they do not give a single rats ass about you.

That spit if you know what i mean , signifies spit in the face of the fans.

When Angry Joe is outraged about this , you know damn well that ND has done fopped up. This was a guy who defended Battlefield V to the hilt over the prosthetic arm controversy

The comic book industry is on its deathbed because of decisions like this , but gamer's for the most part are a different breed and won't accept narratives and charterers that are driven by personal and political biases.


Part 2 won't fail but it will definitely loose a lot of sales and user reviews will be low which will hurt future sales and damage the brand.

Sony won't like that such a flagship game has been shrouded in negativity so i doubt anything positive will come out of it , in fact this game has the potential do the progressive movement severe damage among the gaming community.

People are outraged and rightly so...Druckmanns reputation is destroyed....

johnny_ultimate

There’s only one type of ‘outraged’ or ‘perpetually offended’ sort I’m seeing here, and it sure as heck ain’t any ‘SJW’ or progressive types

Also, ‘Angry’ Joe being outraged... LOL :pac:

BruteStock

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There’s only one type of ‘outraged’ or ‘perpetually offended’ sort I’m seeing here, and it sure as heck ain’t any ‘SJW’ or progressive types

Also, ‘Angry’ Joe being outraged... LOL :pac:

Are you talking about me? At least the the e-gonads to quote me directly.

Are you offended by critical thought? Can you substantiate your views on my post beyond that of a hit-n run quip?

J. Marston

I might just act like I enjoy the story so I'm not mistaken to have same mindset as the above ramblings.

Blaze420

I don’t care much for the outrage for this and have avoided spoilers so far, but I see Anita Sarkeesian had some input on the story? That’s enough to put me off a purchase on day 1.

2u2me

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Brilliantly accurate breakdown (Not about the game story just how we got here)

Forcing a real woman out of her job to champion fictional women, Sarkeesian would be so proud.

Zero-Cool

J. Marston wrote: »

I might just act like I enjoy the story so I'm not mistaken to have same mindset as the above ramblings.

Best post in a while!

Penn

You'd swear this wasn't actually a videogame set in a post-apocalyptic zombie-type world.

johnny_ultimate

BruteStock wrote: »

Are you offended by critical thought?

Not even slightly

Can you substantiate your views on my post beyond that of a hit-n run quip?

Sure!

Mostly I find a certain irony between this...

BruteStock wrote: »

perpetually offended pearl-clutchers that exist within the echo chambers of twitter.

And these...

Neil can go f himself in his own ass

you should not feel sorry or care for Neil and his crew , as i can assure you , they do not give a single rats ass about you.

That spit if you know what i mean , signifies spit in the face of the fans.

When Angry Joe is outraged about this , you know damn well that ND has done fopped up.

People are outraged and rightly so...Druckmanns reputation is destroyed....

I just more and more find BY FAR the most significant level of outrage and offense emerges not from progressive circles (and of course there are progressive critics who go too far with identity politics and culture war shenanigans!) but the 'anti-SJW' sorts - mostly YouTubers - who will fly off the handle about almost anything. I've seen a lot of what I would deem 'perpetual offense' emerging from these particular types of commentators when it comes to TLOU2. Let me stress I'm not putting you into that categories, but within your post I must confess I found the jump from criticising 'the perpetually offended' to the clear outrage a jarring leap to follow

conditions to staff of said company

I'm with you here. I'm more than happy to call out Naughty Dog's work practices - their crunch culture seems awful, and am glad they've been called out for it! However...

I don't believe for a second that an outside hacker was responsible.

For now, I'm inclined to believe the proven investigative journalists, hacking community members and indeed Sony/ND themselves on this front as all these disparate sources seem to line up. If any evidence to the contrary emerges - other than unsourced, anonymous quotes from disreputable websites or forums, some of which have been quoted here - I'm more than happy to reconsider the evidence

won't accept narratives and charterers that are driven by personal and political biases.

As someone who has been playing all sorts of games for going on three decades now, I'm more than happy to accept such narratives and characters - like I'm happy to accept it in films, books, music etc... I'm a firm believer in artists being able to express themselves however they want, and much great art across many mediums has been built on the foundations of artists' political beliefs or personal experiences. Much bad art has been too, so it's a case by case thing

I always find it odd this suggestion there is one sort of 'gamer' that believes the same thing and want the same thing from games. I would consider my own tastes very specific to myself and in many cases pretty niche, and my experience of the posters in this forum and elsewhere I can guarantee there are endless amounts of different players who want endless amounts of different things. I'm always delighted to see the many different directions gaming has spun off in to cover so many different types of interests, politics, abilities, cultures etc... Long may it continue

BruteStock

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I just more and more find BY FAR the most significant level of outrage and offense emerges not from progressive circles (and of course there are progressive critics who go too far with identity politics and culture war shenanigans!) but the 'anti-SJW' sorts - mostly YouTubers - who will fly off the handle about almost anything. I've seen a lot of what I would deem 'perpetual offense' emerging from these particular types of commentators when it comes to TLOU2. Let me stress I'm not putting you into that categories, but within your post I must confess I found the jump from criticising 'the perpetually offended' to the clear outrage a jarring leap to follow

Ok ,so as you know Anita has been an influence on the games narrative structure. Anita , Zoe Quinn and her followers are what I and most would call-out as being perpetually offended stern critics , who "expose" problems in gaming that the majority don't believe are issues that need exposing. Reacting to this outrage and constant complaining doesn't make those people the source of the outrage.
My opinion of where Druckmann can go was a reactionary response to a guy that claims he deserves sympathy. I feel that Druckmann has made terrible anti-consumer choices so imo it was justified response. I feel the rest of my post was balanced and reasonable.

I'll also make the argument that responses to difference of opinion , often which are fair and balanced , get treated with anger and in a lot of ceases - personal abuse.
This behaviour I firmly believe exists on what could be classed as the non-anti-SJW side.
Want an example? The only post I made in this thread a few days ago resulted in a disgruntled poster referring to me as a "gowl" and requested a Mod delete my post.

It's part of the problem on this forum and others, there's a culture of spite and point-scoring so entrenched and infesting so many threads, people just assume any critical comment must stem from some kind of predisposition of this , that and the other. .

If a person pipes up and offers a simple, unaffected statement of opinion, there's a chance he'll be dismissed as a hater a phobe or whatever.
One thing the SJW types revel in is , suppression of thought and freedom of speech. Witness how Leeroy thinks that discussing the leaks is and should be illegal.

I'd be great to have discussions on these matters without people devolving into pettiness and name-calling. I think other members should look at your civilised response and take notice.

2u2me

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'm always delighted to see the many different directions gaming has spun off in to cover so many different types of interests, politics, abilities, cultures etc... Long may it continue

I'm with you when something new is created but when they take an existing popular title/franchise and drastically alter the canon in a desperate attempt to pander to the ilk of Sarkeesian, they only undermine their artistic integrity. I think this is what really upsets people. (Star Wars/Ghostbusters)

J. Marston

I called you a gowl, and stand by it, because you posted spoilers without tagging it. Why do you think a mod spoilered your post?

Your flaccid outrage had nothing to do with it.

Blaze420

2u2me wrote: »

I'm with you when something new is created but when they take an existing popular title/franchise and drastically alter the canon in a desperate attempt to pander to the ilk of Sarkeesian, they only undermine their artistic integrity. I think this is what really upsets people. (Star Wars/Ghostbusters)

That’s exactly my issue- **** know what she suggested or had input on but if she had any major part, expect a strong empowered female stereotype or something from the lgbt spectrum to be shoehorned in. She is a toxic insidious individual and it’s not a good sign having her name anywhere near a title like this.

Leroy42

2u2me wrote: »

I'm with you when something new is created but when they take an existing popular title/franchise and drastically alter the canon in a desperate attempt to pander to the ilk of Sarkeesian, they only undermine their artistic integrity. I think this is what really upsets people. (Star Wars/Ghostbusters)

What are you talking about, what cannon? This is his game, he can tell it whatever way he wants. Do you get this upset about other forms of art?

He has no obligation to stick to whatever version of the story would keep you satisfied. He makes, you either buy it or not.

Anti-consumer? Do you think firms are anti-consumer when they make a product that you don't like?

They are trying to target a different audience than normal, trying to expand the video game market. It might end up losing more than it gains, but that is the chance you take on trying anything new.

The fact that you think that they deserve criminals to steal from them is pretty telling. You have let your views on their agenda warp your morals. If people are treated badly working there, well there are laws and the ultimate sanction is to walk out.

Why would any other game company even try to develop anything new if this is the type of reaction they are going to get? Stick to Fifa, Street Fighter and endless versions of CoD.