2700s return

GM228

IE 222 wrote: »

Would the plan be to have them as a push/pull set or keep them dead with loco run arounds.

Push/pull could work Dublin commuter but hualed wouldn't work to well. Maybe they could work Longford services as hauled stock.

Push-Pull if rumours are to be believed.

kc56

goingnowhere wrote: »

It goes back to the DRRTS study of 1973 which proposed an extensive DART network around the city including underground sections

25kV was too heavy
750DC is to fragile in snow and exposed to the sea
1500V requires less clearance than 25kV and no transformer to lug around.

Bear in mind a 25kV train is really a DC train with a transformer so dual voltage is trivial to support since we don't use tap changers anymore and go with VVVF AC drives (which didn't exist in 1973)

Wasn't there also an issue with regenerative braking that only worked with DC back then?

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

Push-Pull if rumours are to be believed.

Well this would make the plan more plausible, lot of work all the same getting something as big off the ground.

Clearly getting rid of the Mark III PP sets is going to prove costly if this idea happens!

IE 222

GM228 wrote: »

Push-Pull if rumours are to be believed.

That would be the best and probably the cheapest but yet expensive option.

If they go for push/pull I wonder will they convert the remaining set as 2 driving trialers and look overseas, as mentioned, to see if any secondhand stock can be found to add to them. This would also tie in with suggestions of them looking to bring back some of the stored 201s.

Is the 3 carriage push/pull set that was shipped to Ennis still intact. Shouldn't be to difficult to pick another up 2 or 3 mark111 if they could buy that back.

Jamie2k9

IE 222 wrote: »

That would be the best and probably the cheapest but yet expensive option.

If they go for push/pull I wonder will they convert the remaining set as 2 driving trialers and look overseas, as mentioned, to see if any secondhand stock can be found to add to them. This would also tie in with suggestions of them looking to bring back some of the stored 201s.

Is the 3 carriage push/pull set that was shipped to Ennis still intact. Shouldn't be to difficult to pick another up 2 or 3 mark111 if they could buy that back.

Yes but probally a lot more damage since they were send down to Clare, they have 6402 (Cafe/Bar and accessible WC), 6105 DVT and non push/pull coach 7146.

Probably possible for IE to get them back if they really wanted to. I believe IE have kept a Mark III coach for future weed spray/train recording duty and BGH have an extra one which they could prehaps loan back to IE.

GM228

A lot of what is in Modern Railways is very credible, however where the idea of looking at overseas stock and/or buying other stock has come from is a mystery to me.

Jamie2k9

Also think ITG have a Mark IIIA which would leave potentially 6 coaches.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Also think ITG have a Mark IIIA which would leave potentially 6 coaches.

The ITG don't have a MkIIIA, however the RPSI have a MkIII.

L1011

If we're reduced to borrowing stock off heritage groups, there are more mk2s around than mk3s.

IE 222

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes but probally a lot more damage since they were send down to Clare, they have 6402 (Cafe/Bar and accessible WC), 6105 DVT and non push/pull coach 7146.

Probably possible for IE to get them back if they really wanted to. I believe IE have kept a Mark III coach for future weed spray/train recording duty and BGH have an extra one which they could prehaps loan back to IE.

Was it not an EGV they kept for maintenance dept.

TheBoyConor

A number of ICR sets will be freed up with the demise of the LJ-Waterford and Ballybrofey-Limerick lines.

All this talk of rehabilitating Mk3s is a bit walter mitty.

end of the road

TheBoyConor wrote: »

A number of ICR sets will be freed up with the demise of the LJ-Waterford and Ballybrofey-Limerick lines.

ballybroaphy is 28 operated and lj waterford is mostly 2800 as wel with the odd ICR doing a run after coming off a dublin service. so nothing in terms of ICRS freed up with them gone.

TheBoyConor

I see. Well in that case the extra 2800s would surely plug a stock gap in the services.

I can't see the logic of bring back loco hauled services. Its really a retrograde step backwards in my opinion. Locos destroy the PW aswell. With relatively lightweight railcars the PW will last way longer before it is worn out.

Shn99

All LJ-Waterford are ICRs....

tabbey

Shn99 wrote: »

All LJ-Waterford are ICRs....

It is still only one set, for a few hours in the morning and evening.

end of the road

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I see. Well in that case the extra 2800s would surely plug a stock gap in the services.

it would but it would be a small one really. it still won't get us out of having to procure extra stock.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I can't see the logic of bring back loco hauled services. Its really a retrograde step backwards in my opinion. Locos destroy the PW aswell. With relatively lightweight railcars the PW will last way longer before it is worn out.

i suppose the logic would be that loco hauled carriges may be quicker to procure and build and they can work with existing locomotives. it shouldn't be a retrograde step backwards as pushpull would be the order of the day. in saying that i can't see any extension of loco haulage from what currently exists.

goingnowhere

Nenagh line needs 2 sets of 2800 to operate

Waterford needs either 2 sets of 2800 or 1 2800 and 1 ICR

So peak AM you are looking at being 4 2800 sets better off, so you get swap out the current 7 car ICR used at peak in Dublin for a proper commuter train and use those 7 cars somewhere elsewhere so

A train which is 3 car goes to 4 and one which is 4 can be moved to 6

Net result is 1000+ more capacity at peak hour

Jamie2k9

Not strictly correct, if the ICR wasn't operating Waterford/Limerick J services it would be parked up doing nothing unless they were to add an extra return to Dublin to make it available outside peak hours...

Ireland trains

Irish rail leave a lot of time for the turnaround of their trains so I'd say they could squeeze in some more services by reducing the turnaround time or add in an extra service of the turnaround time is that big. Let's say for example Heuston to Portlaiose takes 1h 7 min so you need 3 trains but you would be able to turn the train around quickly at Portlaiose and when it gets back to Heuston you have about 40 min which in that time you could run a service to Hazelhatch and back.
Also irish rail have changed the 07:10 Newbridge to Grand canal dock to a 5 car ICR so does anyone know if some peak time service has been reduced to a 4 car ICR.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

IE 222

goingnowhere wrote: »

Nenagh line needs 2 sets of 2800 to operate

Waterford needs either 2 sets of 2800 or 1 2800 and 1 ICR

So peak AM you are looking at being 4 2800 sets better off, so you get swap out the current 7 car ICR used at peak in Dublin for a proper commuter train and use those 7 cars somewhere elsewhere so

A train which is 3 car goes to 4 and one which is 4 can be moved to 6

Net result is 1000+ more capacity at peak hour

Neagh morning service splits. You would require 2 3car ICR then.

IE 222

Ireland trains wrote: »

Irish rail leave a lot of time for the turnaround of their trains so I'd say they could squeeze in some more services by reducing the turnaround time or add in an extra service of the turnaround time is that big. Let's say for example Heuston to Portlaiose takes 1h 7 min so you need 3 trains but you would be able to turn the train around quickly at Portlaiose and when it gets back to Heuston you have about 40 min which in that time you could run a service to Hazelhatch and back.
Also irish rail have changed the 07:10 Newbridge to Grand canal dock to a 5 car ICR so does anyone know if some peak time service has been reduced to a 4 car ICR.

Portlaiose is used to swap trains in and out of service as well. Turn around times facilitate other operations such as cleaning, driver breaks, train rosters, splitting, passenger tranfers ect. You also need to allow paths for other services to run as well.

L1011

If you start caning stock on tight turns it needs heavier and more frequent maintenance

dowlingm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

the R.E.M. project in Montreal proposes to remove the 25kV AC regional heavy rail service in favour of urban rail at... 1500V DC! So not a dead technology choice by any means. Chicago electric suburban rail is 1500V DC too (e.g. South Shore Line not the third rail urban lines)

Ireland trains

So how much icr's would the 2700 free up

kc56

Ireland trains wrote: »

So how much icr's would the 2700 free up

If the 2700's take over, either directly or by cascading, the PPT services, that will release 4 ICR units which are a mix of 3 and 4 car sets.

Jamie2k9

kc56 wrote: »

If the 2700's take over, either directly or by cascading, the PPT services, that will release 4 ICR units which are a mix of 3 and 4 car sets.

Can't see PPT changing from an ICR, if anythig prehaps 6/7 ICR ex Newbridge in future. M3 Parkway/Maynooth will likely be the lines to benefit.

IE 222

Can't see them going anywhere near Hueston services. I reckon they'll all go to M3 and make all Maynooth trains 8 car 2900s. Freed ICR's will go to Drogheada/Dundalk and maybe an extra PPT.

Has the PPT seen numbers fall on Portlaise- Hueston service or is it still busy. Is future demand on the Kildare commuter routes just for PPT or demand for more Hueston services grown as well.

man98

IE 222 wrote: »

Can't see them going anywhere near Hueston services. I reckon they'll all go to M3 and make all Maynooth trains 8 car 2900s. Freed ICR's will go to Drogheada/Dundalk and maybe an extra PPT.

Has the PPT seen numbers fall on Portlaise- Hueston service or is it still busy. Is future demand on the Kildare commuter routes just for PPT or demand for more Hueston services grown as well.

Surely any spare ICRs will go towards making Rosslare/ Wexford - Dublin fully ICR? Or at least reducing it to one 29k per day?

Ireland trains

man98 wrote: »

IE 222 wrote: »

Surely any spare ICRs will go towards making Rosslare/ Wexford - Dublin fully ICR? Or at least reducing it to one 29k per day?

Yes that is the sensible thing to do as intercity train on intercity route and commuter train on commuter route.
They could do it tommorrow by just switching trains around