2700s return

IE 222

How sets does Cork require for daily operations. Would there any scope in swapping 2600 sets for 5 3ICR sets rotating with Dublin and Tralee services.

Jamie2k9

IE 222 wrote: »

How sets does Cork require for daily operations. Would there any scope in swapping 2600 sets for 5 3ICR sets rotating with Dublin and Tralee services.

No ICRs not suitable for Cork commuter because they are limited to 3 car (?), to big in terms of capacity and 3 car sets are limited and in high demand especially because all routes can't take 7 car formations.

They need 5-6 2600 from a quick look at a timetable.

goingnowhere

Peak need

2*2 for Cobh
2*2 for Midleton
4*2 for Tralee

4+4+8=12
Fleet = 16

So 2 spare and 2 under heavy maintenance

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

Peak need

2*2 for Cobh
2*2 for Midleton
4*2 for Tralee

4+4+8=12
Fleet = 16

So 2 spare and 2 under heavy maintenance

8 sets of 2600 (?)

Isn't the 2600 only on Tralee weekends, not weekdays mainly?

The_Wanderer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

8 sets of 2600 (?)

Isn't the 2600 only on Tralee weekends, not weekdays mainly?

2600 to Tralee is only booked Saturday, Sunday and Monday morning (0445 ex Tralee).

Sat
0625 CK -TL
2055 CK - TL

Sun
0710 TL - CK
1435 CK - TL (4pce)
1845 CK - TL
1710 TL - CK (4pce)
2110 TL - MW Ety.

Mon
0445 TL - CK

Peak requirement is for 5 sets in service.

2 for Cobh.
2 for Midleton.
1 for Mallow.

3 sets for maintenance
1 x B Exam Limerick
1 X Heavy Mtce Limerick or wheel turning at Inchicore.
1 x standby Cork or wheel turning at Inchicore.

Ireland trains

Im not sure but It looks like irish rail might actually have started to refurbish the trains as on their tweets it used to say 'sorry we are utilising all fleet capacity at peak times and we hope to add more in the future' but now they are saying 2019

Colonel Claptrap

Seen this on Facebook today...

2 Page article in this months Modern Railways magazine entitled “Electrification in Ireland’s 10 year Rail plans”. Magazine out today. Some salient points as quoted by David Franks:

300 new vehicles by 2022- 100 for extra capacity and 200 to replace the oldest DART vehicles

Option under investigation of using 8 of the 10 stored Class 8200 vehicles as a crowd buster set with loco haulage. Government has also asked what stock maybe available from overseas.

28 stored railcars to be reintroduced from 2019/2020 following refurbishment (Class 2700), Class 2750 and car 2716 with Class 2600 vehicle 2609 as a 2 car set

Retractioning of remaining active 201 locos now at procurement exercise

Lots of other bits & pieces. All pretty positive

Ireland trains

Great news about all that stuff.
I have a subscription but it won't arrive till next week.
The 200 trains to replace the DART coaches but there is 148 DART coaches and that includes the newer DARTs. Are you sure its not the 100 trains to replace the DARTs because otherwise 100 additional capacity coaches is 25 4 car trains which won't be enough to operate all the future DART services

end of the road

the 8100s would be the only ones replaced in the near future as they are coming upon 40 years old in the next 5 years or so. even then, i should think that will depend on their condition, cost to maintain and availability of parts. if all 3 are good then they may stay longer. it's very unlikely the 8500 class will be replaced they are still very young and will be when any new stock would arrive.
25 4 car trains should be fine to replace the 8100s and run further dart services depending on how much is electrified if anything at all.

Jamie2k9

Option under investigation of using 8 of the 10 stored Class 8200 vehicles as a crowd buster set with loco haulage. Government has also asked what stock maybe available from overseas.

Oversea's won't happen nor will a loco hauling 8200. If you want to do anything with the 8200 then strip them down and convert to DMU,

IE 222

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Oversea's won't happen nor will a loco hauling 8200. If you want to do anything with the 8200 then strip them down and convert to DMU,

Would a 2700 either end of an 8200 have enough power and breaking to run with a striped down lighter unit in between.

I know 2900s can hual a Dart. Not sure about the older DMUs

flyingsnail

IE 222 wrote: »

Would a 2700 either end of an 8200 have enough power and breaking to run with a striped down lighter unit in between.

I know 2900s can hual a Dart. Not sure about the older DMUs

They could definitely pull them, the problem would be in having enough acceleration and speed while doing so to keep to timetables.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

IE 222

flyingsnail wrote: »

They could definitely pull them, the problem would be in having enough acceleration and speed while doing so to keep to timetables.

Thats what I thought. I guess it would be the same for the 26 & 28 class.

L1011

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

1500v DC locos are not really off the shelf products these days so the cost would be even higher than the usual 1600mm premium

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Ireland trains

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Option under investigation of using 8 of the 10 stored Class 8200 vehicles as a crowd buster set with loco haulage.

It would not be able to go south of gcd /pearse (I think) because of the speed restrictions for loco hauled trains. It would be kind of interesting to see it and would it cost Irish rail any money

goingnowhere

Its right up there with the lets double head Dublin Cork trains

The only thing you could do would be to stick a 2700 set either side of a pair to give a 6 coach set but thats a lot of hassle

Simpler just get them to work again, parts are no problem and its not like Alstom haven't got engineers in Dublin who work on the ONIX drive system, after all the Luas is electrically very similar to the Alstom DARTs

andrewfaulk

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Does anyone know why 1500V DC was chosen in the first place?

Probably made sense in the late 70s when the Dart was being planned as just a small network to serve between Howth and Bray..

Always thought the change to AC should be made before the start expanding outwards.. Costs would be high up front but in terms of savings and performance it would be worthwhile..
If a conversion to AC was made the 8200s could be tweaked to operate as AC stock

end of the road

Ireland trains wrote: »

It would not be able to go south of gcd /pearse (I think) because of the speed restrictions for loco hauled trains.

it likely will be able to, the speed restrictions would likely not prohibit it seeing as locomotive hauled trains go south including maintenence and during the summer season, the belmond train. it may not be timetabled to do so in practice however.

Ireland trains wrote: »

It would be kind of interesting to see it and would it cost Irish rail any money

it will cost irish rail money as the sets would have to be refurbished. they have been lying outdoors for what, 10 years now?

L1011

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It was the norm for heavy rail metro operations at the time.

tabbey

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

1500V dc was the norm for main line electrification until after WW2. Even the TransPennine electrification in England 1954 was 1500V dc, although this was planned before the war. Large parts of France south of Paris was and remains 1500V. Netherlands is also 1500V, while Belgium and Italy is little more at 3000Vdc.

The trend to 25kV ac has occurred because a smaller lighter copper wire can be used, and transformer sub-stations can be fewer, covering a longer distance.

This however comes at a price, the higher the voltage, the greater clearance between wires and bridges is needed. For open country long distance electrification, this is not a problem. But in a densely populated area with lots of bridges, it is a considerable additional cost. To change to high tension electric would require raising bridges and for DART especially substantial blasting of granite between DunLaoghaire and Sandycove.

When DART was planned in the late 1970s, there was no intention to extend electric wires to Belfast never mind any other mainline. To have gone for the expensive option at that time would not have been countenanced.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Oversea's won't happen nor will a loco hauling 8200

This is the next possible project, it is still just an idea at the moment, but serious consideration is been given to it, it was actually mooted long ago before the 2700 project got underway.

GM228

IE 222 wrote: »

Would a 2700 either end of an 8200 have enough power and breaking to run with a striped down lighter unit in between.

I know 2900s can hual a Dart. Not sure about the older DMUs

This was considered but the idea dropped pretty quickly as issues regarding wheel slip/slide, keeping air pressure, keeping to time and several other issues were identified.

GM228

Ireland trains wrote: »

It would not be able to go south of gcd /pearse (I think) because of the speed restrictions for loco hauled trains. It would be kind of interesting to see it and would it cost Irish rail any money

This would not be an issue, the limit of 20MPH is only between Pearse and Sandymount and would not have any detrimental effect in running of a loco hauled train.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

This is the next possible project, it is still just an idea at the moment, but serious consideration is been given to it, it was actually mooted long ago before the 2700 project got underway.

Perhaps but I still can't see it. Yes it could in theory work for Rosslare or Sligo but surly not commuter.

Will 225 make it into traffic over the summer, suspect 230 will take a lot longer.

goingnowhere

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It goes back to the DRRTS study of 1973 which proposed an extensive DART network around the city including underground sections

25kV was too heavy
750DC is to fragile in snow and exposed to the sea
1500V requires less clearance than 25kV and no transformer to lug around.

Bear in mind a 25kV train is really a DC train with a transformer so dual voltage is trivial to support since we don't use tap changers anymore and go with VVVF AC drives (which didn't exist in 1973)

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Perhaps but I still can't see it. Yes it could in theory work for Rosslare or Sligo but surly not commuter.

Will 225 make it into traffic over the summer, suspect 230 will take a lot longer.

225 is more or less ready and painted quite some time now (since last year), it just needs some minor work and tweaks so yes it should be, 230 is a different story....

IE 222

GM228 wrote: »

This is the next possible project, it is still just an idea at the moment, but serious consideration is been given to it, it was actually mooted long ago before the 2700 project got underway.

Would the plan be to have them as a push/pull set or keep them dead with loco run arounds.

Push/pull could work Dublin commuter but hualed wouldn't work to well. Maybe they could work Longford services as hauled stock.