Nice - Bastille day **mod warning post 1**

long range shooter

end of the road wrote: »

no it's called being a thug, a scumbag, an extremist, a violent criminal, and a threat to the state.



we've all ready done that. plenty of anti-terror laws exist and are used. no more you can do. if you bomb countries and or persecute groups of people then that gives the extremists more followers. the security forces do stop 99% of these plots thankfully. of course we would like it to be 100% but sadly it's probably not realistic. things do slip through the cracks diispite the best efforts.

Yes nationalism is a bad thing these days,it hurts multicultural feelings.
Only a few politicians have had enough of tolerance and give them what they want attitude.
National identity is about to be wiped out,and rules are to be changed to the worse.
Lets just give them what they want.

BoatMad

long range shooter wrote: »

Exactly,and since the local muslim communites are known fo hiding their own,it doesnt make t any better,like after the Brussel attacks.

we know from places like northern ireland , that getting people to inform on activities in their midst ia a very difficult cultural taboo to break. The cultural view of the whistle blower or informer is not high as our own experience can testify

Hence I discount it and I fear that in time , the desperation off the authorities to prevent such outrages and the public demands to sort out the problem , will lead to the wholesale targeting of the Muslim European community

There are plenty of historical evidence that this is whats happens in the end

end of the road

BoatMad wrote: »

agreed , the enemy within is a huge problem , that can only be solved by measures that target populations using profiling and then lock up people that fit the profile.

not nice , but effective ( for a while anyway )

it's not effective. infact, it's a huge failure.

BoatMad wrote: »

evidence was that he was radicalised fast , so he developed a religious leaning. Good profiling would start to identify this.

we unfortunately have to begin to consider a form of thought crime approach, because " prosecuting " after the fact is of rather no use.

we absolutely don't have to consider such extremist gibberish. once you go down that road it will be rights next. no i'm afraid i'm not willing to give up rights or freedoms for protection from the government.

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

it's not effective. infact, it's a huge failure.

It was not a failure in ww2 when undertaken by the US government on a massive case and what they did to Hawaii .

we absolutely don't have to consider such extremist gibberish. once you go down that road it will be rights next. no i'm afraid i'm not willing to give up rights or freedoms for protection from the government.

I agree with you , but the evidence is that the general mass of the public want to feel safe above all else and concerns over one groups " rights" rapidly fade in the face of ongoing outrages. ( Northern Irelands, shoot to kill , for example was a classic example of extra judicial action and went on on a fairly wide scale, GUantanimo is another )

end of the road

BoatMad wrote: »

Then you are saying that we have to accept , that every few months 30-100 innocents European citizens will die !!! , potentially for years to come

i dont see the public buying that one

they mightn't have a choice but to buy it. i no more like it then anyone else but even if everyone's freedoms and rights were eroded tomorrow they're would still be frequent attacks. as i said the security forces do stop 99% of planned attacks but the odd one will slip through. nobody likes it but unfortunately it's reality.

BoatMad

Old Guy wrote: »

Poor kid was probably frustrated because German women kept turning down his offers of fiki fiki. Germans, and all Europeans, must become more tolerate and accepting of our new citizens. It's the only way the violence will end.

yes we should let them attempt to sexually harass women , it will make then integrate nicely

JuliusSeizure

Old Guy wrote: »

Poor kid was probably frustrated because German women kept turning down his offers of fiki fiki. Germans, and all Europeans, must become more tolerate and accepting of our new citizens. It's the only way the violence will end.

"The perpetrator attacked the passengers with an ax and a knife. A spokesman for the Bavarian interior ministry said he shouted 'Allahu Akbar' (God is great)."


Source: Bild

selastich2

Another alli akbar lad gone mad with an axe, i wonder what his issue is?

long range shooter

BoatMad wrote: »

we know from places like northern ireland , that getting people to inform on activities in their midst ia a very difficult cultural taboo to break. The cultural view of the whistle blower or informer is not high as our own experience can testify

Hence I discount it and I fear that in time , the desperation off the authorities to prevent such outrages and the public demands to sort out the problem , will lead to the wholesale targeting of the Muslim European community

There are plenty of historical evidence that this is whats happens in the end

Well the problem in Europe starts with identity.
If you are living in a ghetto amongst your own,and not part of your country,how are you going to get the identity and national feeling of belonging somewhere?
If you have mass immigration like Europe have had and still have ,and they end up in the same spot all of them with their own people and not taking part of any cultural and traditional activities of that country.
Not integrated into the society at all
And all your daily news come from your local Imam?
Its doomed from day one.
The culture just doesnt fit in with European values and traditions.

FalconGirl

Well done Merkel you absolute goon. Expect more of these attacks. She created the perfect trojan horse.

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

they mightn't have a choice but to buy it. i no more like it then anyone else but even if everyone's freedoms and rights were eroded tomorrow they're would still be frequent attacks. as i said the security forces do stop 99% of planned attacks but the odd one will slip through. nobody likes it but unfortunately it's reality.

as those attacks increase in number and ferocity , like over the past year , you will not see a tolerant European public accept the fact that they cannot walk their own streets or have a drink in a bar or board a train without a serious risk of injury

sorry , its not going to happen , their will be a demand to " do something"

the result will not be pretty , hopefully it might be effective however

The target will be placed clearly on the European Muslim populations and unfairly all will be targeted

The alternative will be populations taking the " law" into their own hands and the outcome of that is particulary indiscriminate and most often very bloody

long range shooter

selastich2 wrote: »

Another alli akbar lad gone mad with an axe, i wonder what his issue is?

Probably lonely,claims hes not religious,possibly gay or divorced,criminal record,seen a few isis propaganda movies on youtube,drinks alcohol and eat pork.
You know,the usual.

Renegade Mechanic

Old Guy wrote: »

In Sweden teenage girls are encouraged to enter into relationships with migrant men in order to promote tolerance. This should be the norm all across Europe.

Lol it gets better. I remember an article where in one school (Dunno if Sweden, it might actually have been Germany) girls who weren't dating "minorities" were pulled aside and examined in order to see if they were racially motivated.
Lemme go look...

KingBrian2

Picking up on a point raised early ISIS are not identical to Al Qaeda, they are produced in Mosques that are preaching the Wahhabi sermons. The same sermons that Al Qaeda used. The rhetoric is the same. Sewing division amongst communities. The years of warfare have made them harsher and harsher and they are still are spreading their message across the world. Europeans heading to the Muslim World to engage in Jihad. This is exactly what Osama Bin Laden wanted. The leadership has scattered.

BoatMad

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Lol it gets better. I remember an article where in one school (Dunno if Sweden, it might actually have been Germany) girls who weren't dating "minorities" were pulled aside and examined in order to see if they were racially motivated.
Lemme go look...

I think that may have the status of an urban myth or just something Farage said

Ulysses Gaze

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Picking up on a point raised early ISIS are not identical to Al Qaeda, they are produced in Mosques that are preaching the Wahhabi sermons. The same sermons that Al Qaeda used. The rhetoric is the same. Sewing division amongst communities. The years of warfare have made them harsher and harsher and they are still are spreading their message across the world. Europeans heading to the Muslim World to engage in Jihad. This is exactly what Osama Bin Laden wanted. The leadership has scattered.

A solution to this is turn off the funding tap.

Ban the construction of Wahabbi backed Saudi mosques in Europe. Close those that are open now and demolish them.

The second step is to turn our backs on Saudi Arabia.

Stop buying their Oil. Stop selling them weapons. Place travel bans on their Royal Family. Ban them from investing in the western stock markets/property markets.

Turn Saudi into a Pariah state.

Don't see it happening mind...

BoatMad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Picking up on a point raised early ISIS are not identical to Al Qaeda, they are produced in Mosques that are preaching the Wahhabi sermons. The same sermons that Al Qaeda used. The rhetoric is the same. Sewing division amongst communities. The years of warfare have made them harsher and harsher and they are still are spreading their message across the world. Europeans heading to the Muslim World to engage in Jihad. This is exactly what Osama Bin Laden wanted. The leadership has scattered.

what you are referring to is the strategy of both AL Qaeda and latterly IS, to use the radicalisation of young muslim europeans as a weapon against Europe.

IN that regards IS and Al Qaeda was very different, AL Qaeda fundamentally believed the west to be the central problem in the Middle East. ( the great satan and all that ) It was not particularly concerned with the Sunni Shia divide ( upto a point).

IS actually has little internet interest in the West, IT merely wants to be left alone to build its Caliphate,( and destroy the Shias) a process the west is involved in seriously denying it so.

as a result , IS is striking at Europe more in retaliation to its involvement against IS, then a fundemental relief that the west must be destroyed.

And as IS is being cornered and broken up by a combination of arab powers, the west and russia, it is intensify its actions in the West as it acts like a cornered rat.

of course what radical muslims clerics are telling gullible young disenfranchised 2nd generation muslims , is anyones guess , IS care not

long range shooter

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

A solution to this is turn off the funding tap.

Ban the construction of Wahabbi backed Saudi mosques in Europe. Close those that are open now and demolish them.

The second step is to turn our backs on Saudi Arabia.

Stop buying their Oil. Stop selling them weapons. Place travel bans on their Royal Family. Ban them from investing in the western stock markets/property markets.

Turn Saudi into a Pariah state.

Don't see it happening mind...

I am just afraid the situation might end up even worse then.
Best way is to defeat isis where they are,get Syria back on their feet again and send back all the refugees to build up their country again.
Then the immigration to Europe will end too.

Renegade Mechanic

BoatMad wrote: »

I think that may have the status of an urban myth or just something Farage said

Nah twas on a local news site, like the Tipperary Star kind of thing only in.... whatever country it was. Should have grabbed a shot, it's proving elusive

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

A solution to this is turn off the funding tap.

Ban the construction of Wahabbi backed Saudi mosques in Europe. Close those that are open now and demolish them.

The second step is to turn our backs on Saudi Arabia.

Stop buying their Oil. Stop selling them weapons. Place travel bans on their Royal Family. Ban them from investing in the western stock markets/property markets.

Turn Saudi into a Pariah state.

Don't see it happening mind...

Because it can't. At least from an American point of view. As long as they sell their oil exclusively in dollars, they'll be kept there. Oil will have to run out first

BoatMad

long range shooter wrote: »

I am just afraid the situation might end up even worse then.
Best way is to defeat isis where they are,get Syria back on their feet again and send back all the refugees to build up their country again.
Then the immigration to Europe will end too.

IS as a conquerer of territory is essentially defeated or in the process of being defeated

Unfortunately its way too simplistic to suggest that the terrorist actions can be reduced or eliminated by sending recent immigrants back.

The issue is that the EU has 19 million or so legal Muslims , many 2nd generation European citizens and that is providing fodder for radicalisation

The immigrants are actually not the main problem or source of terrorism

long range shooter

BoatMad wrote: »

IS as a conquerer of territory is essentially defeated or in the process of being defeated

Unfortunately its way too simplistic to suggest that the terrorist actions can be reduced or eliminated by sending recent immigrants back.

The issue is that the EU has 19 million or so legal Muslims , many 2nd generation European citizens and that is providing fodder for radicalisation

The immigrants are actually not the main problem or source of terrorism

Difference between a refugee or asylum seeker.
Most refugees are only here on a temporary basis.
No refugees are not the problem,the problem is that asylumseekers and terrorists are using it as an excuse to get to Europe.

BoatMad

long range shooter wrote: »

Difference between a refugee or asylum seeker.
Most refugees are only here on a temporary basis.
No refugees are not the problem,the problem is that asylumseekers and terrorists are using it as an excuse to get to Europe.

you keep failing to address my point

Sending syrian immigrants home , will in no way lesson the ability of IS and others to radicalise European Muslims , who are typically European citizens . all it will do is make the xenophobics feel better

JP Liz V1

selastich2 wrote: »

He wasn't isis, he was just another lad struggling with his sexuality


It's amazing the LGBT comunity are going to let themselves take the blame for this one, and the one in orlando


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694928/How-Nice-killer-regularly-used-dating-sites-pick-male-female-lovers-Mobile-phone-examination-reveals-31-year-old-drank-alcohol-smoked-drugs.html

Was he not an Islamist?

NIMAN

Haven't read the thread, but perhaps someone could give me a quick answer.

I had heard for a few days that an Irish citizen was in a critical condition, confirmed in many websites.

Then someone was telling me that he was supposedly ok.

Confused? How do you go from critically ill to ok?

KingBrian2

BoatMad wrote: »

what you are referring to is the strategy of both AL Qaeda and latterly IS, to use the radicalisation of young muslim europeans as a weapon against Europe.

IN that regards IS and Al Qaeda was very different, AL Qaeda fundamentally believed the west to be the central problem in the Middle East. ( the great satan and all that ) It was not particularly concerned with the Sunni Shia divide ( upto a point).

IS actually has little internet interest in the West, IT merely wants to be left alone to build its Caliphate,( and destroy the Shias) a process the west is involved in seriously denying it so.

as a result , IS is striking at Europe more in retaliation to its involvement against IS, then a fundemental relief that the west must be destroyed.

And as IS is being cornered and broken up by a combination of arab powers, the west and russia, it is intensify its actions in the West as it acts like a cornered rat.

of course what radical muslims clerics are telling gullible young disenfranchised 2nd generation muslims , is anyones guess , IS care not

IS will not stop building their Caliphate in Syria and Iraq. They intend to reconquer the Arab world including Jerusalem, Mecca & Medina. You make a big mistake in believing ISIS are not interested in the whole Arab world. Then when will it end, Andalusia the Balkans who knows even as far as Paris, London and New York all teaming with Islamic followers.

long range shooter

BoatMad wrote: »

you keep failing to address my point

Sending syrian immigrants home , will in no way lesson the ability of IS and others to radicalise European Muslims , who are typically European citizens . all it will do is make the xenophobics feel better

No thats true,but seemingly the more muslims the worse it gets.
France and Germany have the biggest muslim populations in Europe.
And my point is,to get even more into Europe will not make the situation any better,thats more food for radical islamists.
And yes i agree with closing down mosques supported by terrorists,and also send back radical imams.
But to provoke the Saudis could escalate the situation even worse.

BoatMad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

IS will not stop building their Caliphate in Syria and Iraq. They intend to reconquer the Arab world including Jerusalem, Mecca & Medina. You make a big mistake in believing ISIS are not interested in the whole Arab world. Then when will it end, Andalusia the Balkans who knows even as far as Paris, London and New York all teaming with Islamic followers.

while I love your " IS to take over the world " biblical stuff , the reality on the ground is that IS as a cohesive force capable of taking and holding territory is finished. It was never going to succeed, against the might of armies that were ranged against it

The issue now is that IS will splinter and sunder and decend into a revenge group against the west

The failed state of Iraq and Irans intentions in it , will keep the Sunnis on a fearful existence and this will continue to provide a breeding ground for Sunni extremists as will the money flowing from Saudi A.

while the IS conflict in Syria and Iraw will come to an end , I fear that the remnants of IS will become more anti -west in nature as revenge sets in . This could mean an escalation in terror attempts

BoatMad

And yes i agree with closing down mosques supported by terrorists,and also send back radical imams.
But to provoke the Saudis could escalate the situation even worse.

no the Saudis are a key failing of the west, They are the financiers and breeding ground for Sunni extremism and its all tacitly supported by elements of the regime

KingBrian2

BoatMad wrote: »

while I love your " IS to take over the world " biblical stuff , the reality on the ground is that IS as a cohesive force capable of taking and holding territory is finished. It was never going to succeed, against the might of armies that were ranged against it

The issue now is that IS will splinter and sunder and decend into a revenge group against the west

The failed state of Iraq and Irans intentions in it , will keep the Sunnis on a fearful existence and this will continue to provide a breeding ground for Sunni extremists as will the money flowing from Saudi A.

while the IS conflict in Syria and Iraw will come to an end , I fear that the remnants of IS will become more anti -west in nature as revenge sets in . This could mean an escalation in terror attempts

They never liked us anyway. They are murderous megalomaniacs bred out of legitimate grievances but most of these thugs don't even care for the people they claim to represent.

NIMAN

Why not let them have their Caliphate, then once they are settled in it, nuke it.