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Nice - Bastille day **mod warning post 1**

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    #1292
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,070 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    dav3 wrote: »
    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Damascus? Save yourself a lot of money: London, Brussels, Paris. Maybe even Nice. If you're going to make internet boasts about what you would do at least you might consider if by making such an offer you are just bull****ting as bad as others.

    No, I'm actually serious. I can't pay for all the racists, bigots and xenophobes that pollute threads like this after an attack, but I'll get as many over there as I can.

    Let me guess, you believe there's a war going on in those countries right now. I don't know how you manage to get out of bed every morning, you must be gripped with fear with all these wars raging around you.
    Was there once for a short stint, im curious as to what you saw when there?


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    #1293
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,070 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    dav3 wrote: »
    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Damascus? Save yourself a lot of money: London, Brussels, Paris. Maybe even Nice. If you're going to make internet boasts about what you would do at least you might consider if by making such an offer you are just bull****ting as bad as others.

    No, I'm actually serious. I can't pay for all the racists, bigots and xenophobes that pollute threads like this after an attack, but I'll get as many over there as I can.

    Let me guess, you believe there's a war going on in those countries right now. I don't know how you manage to get out of bed every morning, you must be gripped with fear with all these wars raging around you.
    Was there once for a short stint, im curious as to what you saw when there?


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    #1294
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    weisses wrote: »
    Equally overlooked ?? Don't think so ... To many "all Muslims are bad" comments here

    So IS is not a thread to Europe ?



    What war is going on here then?

    The wars between Islamic sects are being fought in areas under their control. Europe isn't.


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    #1295
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Isn't it one of those 'irrelevant' wars that formed the basis for IS?

    The wars between Islamic sects have been fought since after the death of Mohammed.

    What is happening in Europe isn't rooted in Mislems killing Moslems over who would succeed Mohammed and what is the correct interpretation of the Hadith.


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    #1296
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    The wars between Islamic sects have been fought since after the death of Mohammed.

    What is happening in Europe isn't rooted in Mislems killing Moslems over who would succeed Mohammed and what is the correct interpretation of the Hadith.
    You're quite correct, but I didn't say it was.


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    #1297
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    You're quite correct, but I didn't say it was.

    I didn't say that you said it was.
    :D


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    #1298
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,451 ✭✭✭weisses


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    The wars between Islamic sects are being fought in areas under their control. Europe isn't.

    What is the goal of Al Queada and IS in regards to Europe?


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    #1299
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    weisses wrote: »
    What is the goal of Al Queada and IS in regards to Europe?

    I'm sure you know already. You could fly there and ask them. There's a poster promising flights to Damascus for one group of posters. He might fit you in.


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    #1300
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    5 people arrested in connection to the incident and IS claiming responsibility.

    Guess that's the "lone nutter" theory out the window.


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    #1301
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,070 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    5 people arrested in connection to the incident and IS claiming responsibility.

    Guess that's the "lone nutter" theory out the window.

    Do they eat Pork though? Cause that's the most important question ;)


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    #1302
    selastich2
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭selastich2


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Do they eat Pork though? Cause that's the most important question ;)

    How's their relationships? Any tiffs with the wives recently over the washing up?


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    #1303
    selastich2
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭selastich2


    it's now being reported he sent eighty four thousand pound to his family in tunisia a few days before the rampage


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    #1304
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    weisses wrote: »
    What is the goal of Al Queada and IS in regards to Europe?

    A Caliphate. That's what they say anyway.


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    #1305
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Well if wanting to look after and put my own people first makes me racist and bigoted then i guess i am......

    it's the reason one may want to look after some over others that might be racist and bigoted. it isn't always the act or opinion that is racist and or bigoted, but the undertones behind it. your own people are looked after first, but no matter how good the services are they're will always be some who slip through the cracks. it doesn't mean we don't strive to improve them, but we improve them by funding them properly.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1306
    Mint Aero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭Mint Aero


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, simply wanting to look after people isn't racist. however, the reason one may want to look after some over others might be. it isn't always the act or opinion that is racist, but the undertones behind it. your own people are looked after first, but no matter how good the services are they're will always be some who slip through the cracks. it doesn't mean we don't strive to improve them, but we improve them by funding rather then punishing others or leaving others out.

    Haha. Haven't been on AH in a while. Sees end of the road posting in this thread. First thoughts...bet the sap is defending them. Opens thread yep he is still a sap.

    mod: banned


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    #1307
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    Mint Aero wrote: »
    Haha. Haven't been on AH in a while. Sees end of the road posting in this thread. First thoughts...bet the sap is defending them. Opens thread yep he is still a sap.

    And you came back to post that? You sap.


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    #1308
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad



    There is a war going on between the values of the western world and Islamic extremism. It's an intellectual war between those who believe in the primacy of human reason and those who believe in the primacy of "revelation" by "God" to a man called Mohammed. It has become a shooting war on the streets of Western Europe.

    This is a lazy intellectual argument that overlooks what is a multi -varied issue.

    iS ( in Iraq as opposed to IS in Syria ) was essentially formed from elements of Al Qaida in Iraq and used the disastrous post over throw of Sadam , the inept and corrupt US supported ****e Iraqi gov, that began a systematic campaign against the Sunnis, to build a support base and establish a territory.

    In Syria the effect was aided by various extremist Islamic groups and a tie up with al Qaida in Syria

    While it feeds on elements of the Sunmi Shia decide , IS is a combination of bad US management and a proxy Iranian , Saudi war.

    Unlike Al Qaeda , which had as a main tenant , a clear anti western philosophy ( the great Satan etc ) .ISis , despite recent atrocities has far less interest in the West ideologically .

    Isis is attacking the west primarily to try and influence its ( the west ) involvement in destroying the caliphate. It reserves its greatest hate for Shias. It's attacks in the west are similar though considerably more vicious then the IRA " mainland " bombing campaign, that is to bring a " foreign " largely hidden conflict to the public of the west.


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    #1309
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Billy86 wrote: »
    The reality here is that I already replied to the post you linked to, and you never got back to me on it. Ignoring my response does not mean my response didn't happen, so do me a favour and stop ignoring the reality that you failed to respond in the first place.

    Have you ever actually been to Toronto? You should come here and let all the locals know that there is a problem, to be afraid, to get paranoid and to alienate Muslims or whatever it is that you want. See how far it gets you.

    I'm assuming you also think the UK has a white supremacist terrorist problem, by the way?
    You replied to my post but didn't refute anything in it.
    You just went off on several tangents, just as you have done in the post above.
    No doubt you'll pop up in a future thread trying to tell people that Toronto has no issues with extremism again.


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    #1310
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    5 people arrested in connection to the incident and IS claiming responsibility.

    Guess that's the "lone nutter" theory out the window.
    Yeah, trustworthy bunch, ISIS. They have you convinced anyway.


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    #1311
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    ISIS will claim responsibility for anything. Their claim for this is meaningless.

    Anyway, it doesn't matter whether he was a regular member signed up to their newsletter or just an angry man who shared their ideology -- it's the ideology* that's the problem, with ISIS the festering sore it comes from.


    (not Islam per se, but the spin ISIS and their backers put on it)


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    #1312
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,451 ✭✭✭weisses


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    I'm sure you know already.

    No I don't specialy with you arguing War within Islam has somehow nothing to do with Europe.
    they are thankfully irrelevant as those wars are fought elsewhere.
    The wars between Islamic sects are being fought in areas under their control. Europe isn't.

    And then saying
    There is a war going on between the values of the western world and Islamic extremism.


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    #1313
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    weisses wrote: »
    Equally overlooked ?? Don't think so ... To many "all Muslims are bad" comments here

    So IS is not a thread to Europe ?



    What war is going on here then?

    Ask this man,the swiss have had enough.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUDKbuh3kM


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    #1314
    boege
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭boege


    I see no evidence yet that this guy was acting under direct IS influence, as is being suggested from many corners here and across the media.

    Based on reports so far across numerous media sites:

    - He is French Algerian who worked in Nice and lived in the region.
    - He was divorced with three kids and is brother is quoted he was generally unhappy and depressed.
    - Latest report cites his farther as saying he was on antidepressants and in a bad state.
    - Neighbors indicate he was having trouble with his ex-wife - one suggested he beat here up - he was also thrown out of his home last year.
    - He was known to the police due to some low level criminal activity but was not listed as a terrorist treat.
    - Locals say he was not particularly religious and this is currently the only link to the IS involvement.
    - The arrests are his wife and immediate contacts and no charges have yet been made but it is early days.
    - The president of France has even said he is connected to IS 'one way or another' suggesting they have no firm evidence yet.
    - The french gov spokesperson is saying he must have been radicalized 'very quickly' indicating they are still looking for evidence.

    There are thousands of young French men of north African descent in French city neighborhoods, many of whom could fit the above profile. It is not so long since some of these people rioted due to feeling increasingly marginalised in French society.

    I'll certainly change my view if more facts come out showing IS links but right now I am inclined to think that this is essential a suicidal or unstable man who wanted to end his life, felt bitter about his lot and wanted take as many people along with him. We have had this before.


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    #1315
    selastich2
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭selastich2


    french-algerian...he was tunsian
    his father and family haven;t seen him in years since he moved to france
    he recently smuggled them 250,000dinar out of the blue


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    #1316
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    boege wrote: »
    I'll certainly change my view if more facts come out showing IS links but right now I am inclined to think that this is essential a suicidal or unstable man who wanted to end his life, felt bitter about his lot and wanted take as many people along with him. We have had this before.

    OK this is a big problem, because sadly and unfortunately, our societies are replete with people who are going to end up feeling unstable, disconnected, disenfranchised or just generally unhappy with the world they life in, I can assure of this from personal experience. The problem we have is that if these feelings can be turned from personal difficulties into international terrorism with the frequency we've seen in recent years, simply by virtue of the depressed/disconnected/unhappy person being a Muslim, then our societies have a very big problem with Islam as a whole.


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    #1317
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    selastich2 wrote: »
    french-algerian...he was tunsian
    his father and family haven;t seen him in years since he moved to france
    he recently smuggled them 250,000dinar out of the blue

    Where is that coming from?


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    #1318
    selastich2
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭selastich2


    RasTa wrote: »
    Where is that coming from?
    Which bit?


    that he was tunsian? Every news source I've seen e.g. cnn http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/15/europe/nice-france-truck/index.html


    sent money home?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693227/Brother-reveals-violent-drug-crazed-ISIS-soldier-Mohamed-Lahouaiej-Bouhlel-smuggled-84-000-family-Tunisia-DAYS-murdering-84-Nice.html

    family haven't seen him since 2012
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/16/nice-attack-bewilders-mohamed-lahouaiej-bouhlel-relatives



    Where's the stories that he was french algerian coming from?


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    #1319
    boege
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭boege


    selastich2 wrote: »
    french-algerian...he was tunsian
    his father and family haven;t seen him in years since he moved to france
    he recently smuggled them 250,000dinar out of the blue

    Apologies, don't know why I typed Algerian, thanks for pointing that out.

    On the savings, its reported he always sent money home. I agree the amount raise questions but sending ones savings home is not inconsistent with a suicidal man. Checking his bank details may clarify the source of money.

    He had not been home since 2012 but there is no indication how often he went home. I doubt people in his circumstances would travel regularly for economic reasons. He also had made little contact with his family, and both family and neighbors indicate he was sullen and disinclined to engage in recent times - I see now that is is being reported that he had a mental breakdown in 2002. For me lack of contact is not telling anything on its own.

    What does give an IS link potentially, is that his home in Tunisia is not far from and IS held region. If they track his movements back to Tunisia and not visit home then this would raise IS link questions.

    My point is to draw out the facts that support a strong IS link rather than jump on one explanation that ignores alternate explanations that are supported by what has been reported. Right now both explanations appear possible and I am still inclined to think this was a very sick man.


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    #1320
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    weisses wrote: »
    What is the goal of Al Queada and IS in regards to Europe?

    Imperialism, colonization, a world where everybody is under sharia law. This is a fight to the death. There won't be a draw, there won't be a stalemate. It's win or die.


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    #1321
    boege
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭boege


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    OK this is a big problem, because sadly and unfortunately, our societies are replete with people who are going to end up feeling unstable, disconnected, disenfranchised or just generally unhappy with the world they life in, I can assure of this from personal experience. The problem we have is that if these feelings can be turned from personal difficulties into international terrorism with the frequency we've seen in recent years, simply by virtue of the depressed/disconnected/unhappy person being a Muslim, then our societies have a very big problem with Islam as a whole.

    There is no evidence reported yet that he was a strong moslem, in fact the opposite has been reported. Why jump from having a disillusioned depressed suicidal man take this action on his own, to include being a muslim as a factor?

    ..and yes I do agree with your last point to an extent. There does appear to be a copycat tenancy now for some to take a decision to end their life and to then 'go out in a blaze' - and that is exactly what I am wondering has happened here.


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