Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Nice - Bastille day **mod warning post 1**

Options
1…4445464850

Comments

  • Options
    #1412
    selastich2
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭selastich2


    He wasn't isis, he was just another lad struggling with his sexuality


    It's amazing the LGBT comunity are going to let themselves take the blame for this one, and the one in orlando


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694928/How-Nice-killer-regularly-used-dating-sites-pick-male-female-lovers-Mobile-phone-examination-reveals-31-year-old-drank-alcohol-smoked-drugs.html


  • Options
    #1413
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Lad From the Bog wrote: »
    No I said if my relatives had been killed in the Nice attack and a Muslim told me my country had brought it on herself...well let's just say I wouldn't be in the mood for turning the other cheek.

    Yeah, that's what you said...... You do realise that when you write something it's quite easy for people to read it. It's just one page back.
    Lad From the Bog wrote: »
    I'd be kicking his head in, not mouthing off at him. If was French and a Muslim told me we brought it on ourselves, well all bets are off.


  • Options
    #1414
    Renegade Mechanic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    Grayson wrote: »
    Yeah, that's what you said...... You do realise that when you write something it's quite easy for people to read it. It's just one page back.

    Indeed...


  • Options
    #1415
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Renegade Mechanic wrote: »
    Indeed...

    He also said that if he was french he'd attack the guy. I'm not misrepresenting what he said. I quoted that post in it's entirety.


  • Options
    #1416
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Grayson wrote: »
    There's a billion Muslims in the world. Most are not terrorists. In Iraq and Syria most people have fled. The majority of people are not involved in the conflicts, they actually flee the conflicts.

    In the western world there are many who talk about turning the middle east to glass. It's not unusual to see commentators on US news shows make comments like this. There's talk about how they should have reduced civil rights, how they should be monitored or be forced to register. It's part of the political discourse and is talked about the way the french talk about cheese and wine.

    It's double standards to say that a christian extremist is not representative of Christians but a Muslim extremist is representative of islam. Neither are representative the vast majority of both religious congregations who are peaceful people.

    I say this as an atheist. I believe all religions are stupid and I hold all religions to the same rational standards. I also hold their adherents to moral and ethical standards. I was raised a catholic in Ireland and the middle east so I know a lot, more than most people, about the religion and politics of both europe and the middle east. If there's one truth I've learned it's that people are the same everywhere.

    This goes the same with reactionaries and extremists. Each side has their nutjobs. We see bomb attacks across europe but for decades it wasn't muslims doing it, it was europeans. We seem to forget that for years Irish terrorists led bombing attacks across the UK. From the Balcombe gang who threw nail bombs into packed restaurants to the omagh bombing with targeted civilians, we've had our share of crazies who blew people up in the name of religion/nationalism. It's wrong to say that all catholics or nationalists or Irish people are terrorists and want to kill english people based on the actions of a few.
    How is the above a reply to my post?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1417
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    selastich2 wrote: »
    He wasn't isis, he was just another lad struggling with his sexuality


    It's amazing the LGBT comunity are going to let themselves take the blame for this one, and the one in orlando


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694928/How-Nice-killer-regularly-used-dating-sites-pick-male-female-lovers-Mobile-phone-examination-reveals-31-year-old-drank-alcohol-smoked-drugs.html

    All these stories prove is that the stereotype of the IS mass murderer isn't accurate. Religions offer a way back for the sinner: look at those born again prisoners who found Jesus. IS wants to kill Westerners in large numbers. They have discovered that they don't have to launch amphibious assaults onto the seafront: they create a sense of solidarity via religion, offer redemption via religion, exploit a local population via religion, seek those with access to weapons or proclivity to violence in the criminal world and off they go. Self radicalizing via the net, self profiling via their religion and very effective in bypassing surveillance and technology. Asymmetrical warfare.

    Anyone who focuses on sexuality as the root of this is missing the point: a conflicted sexuality where ones experience of oneself is at odds with what the religious culture tells you you should be is someone ripe for a message of redemption or self destruction or both.


  • Options
    #1418
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Again , as I said previously actions nnot other wise considered possible in " civil society " will have to be brought to bear to contain or eliminate these threats . The Civil justice system cannot hope to handle these types of actions or prevent them from occurring in the future. The more we bend our society to accept security impositions on ourselves the more IS wins in , showing us the realities of its conflicts ( i.e. it wants to bring home to western cilivans, its reality )

    Hence we can debate the niceties of this intellectually till the cows come home, but the reality is that without aggressive action m these attacks will continue and some will b e successful resulting in further loss of life

    This is not the time anymore for intellectual debate and political correctness , Civil society must be protected and allowed to remain open and accessible to its citizens. Action must now follow to ensure that


  • Options
    #1419
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Osama Bin Laden's vision is alive and well. His demise has not ended the movement he masterminded and nurtured.


  • Options
    #1420
    JuliusSeizure
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭JuliusSeizure


    Another attack. Some loon attacked and injured with an axe over twenty people on a train in Germany.

    When's this craziness going to stop?


  • Options
    #1421
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,070 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Ah it's nice for it to go around

    Ffs


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1422
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    selastich2 wrote: »
    He wasn't isis, he was just another lad struggling with his sexuality


    It's amazing the LGBT comunity are going to let themselves take the blame for this one, and the one in orlando


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3694928/How-Nice-killer-regularly-used-dating-sites-pick-male-female-lovers-Mobile-phone-examination-reveals-31-year-old-drank-alcohol-smoked-drugs.html

    Unless it was done in the name of Ru Paul I don't think its something LGBT as a community could be blamed for.

    A guy with huge conflict between his sexuality and his religious teaching, is not the fault of the Gay community.


  • Options
    #1423
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    JuliusSeizure wrote: »
    Another attack. Some loon attacked and injured with an axe over twenty people on a train in Germany.

    When's this craziness going to stop?

    Aye just hearing this. Reports say 20 people injured, some seriously and thebattacker has been shot dead by police.

    There could be any motivation behind the attack of course but worrying news.


  • Options
    #1424
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Osama Bin Laden's vision is alive and well. His demise has not ended the movement he masterminded and nurtured.

    IS is very very different to AL Quaeda


  • Options
    #1425
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    JuliusSeizure wrote: »
    Another attack. Some loon attacked and injured with an axe over twenty people on a train in Germany.

    When's this craziness going to stop?

    when we stop being " nice" and get serious


  • Options
    #1426
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    BoatMad wrote: »
    IS is very very different to AL Quaeda

    ISIS is Al Qaeda with a change of name a more authentic manifestation of their ideology come true.


  • Options
    #1427
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    ISIS is Al Qaeda with a change of name a more authentic manifestation of their ideology come true.

    I suggest a few books on the origins of IS ( the Patrick Cockburn one isn't bad as a beginners roundup )

    They are very different organisations with very different goals


  • Options
    #1428
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    JuliusSeizure wrote: »
    Another attack. Some loon attacked and injured with an axe over twenty people on a train in Germany.

    When's this craziness going to stop?

    Now, now....if it is a member of that religion that has committed the attack...It is nothing to do with Islam because Islam is a religion of peace and this guy, obviously, is not a Muslim.


  • Options
    #1429
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I suggest a few books on the origins of IS ( the Patrick Cockburn one isn't bad as a beginners roundup )

    They are very different organisations with very different goals

    Dont think anybody really cares what their goals are.
    Their both terrorist organisations and kill innocent people,what more do you really need to know?


  • Options
    #1430
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    long range shooter wrote: »
    Dont think anybody really cares what their goals are.
    Their both terrorist organisations and kill innocent people,what more do you really need to know?

    of course , but to beat your enemy , you must find know your enemy and I was merely responding to the posters contention that they are the same .

    I of course would point out that the americans during the war of independence were labelled " terrorists " in the vernacular of the day and that today known " terrorists" are quite happily taking tea with the Queen


  • Options
    #1431
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    BoatMad wrote: »
    of course , but to beat your enemy , you must find know your enemy and I was merely responding to the posters contention that they are the same .

    I of course would point out that the americans during the war of independence were labelled " terrorists " in the vernacular of the day and that today known " terrorists" are quite happily taking tea with the Queen

    Terror is becomming a daily occurrence these days,and its starting to effect our daily lifes soon.
    But thats what the terrorists wants.
    To know your enemy is to become your enemy,sun tzu.
    Problem with these terrorists,it could be your next door neighbour,so its hard to predict your enemies moves.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1432
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    long range shooter wrote: »
    Terror is becomming a daily occurrence these days,and its starting to effect our daily lifes soon.
    But thats what the terrorists wants.
    To know your enemy is to become your enemy,sun tzu.
    Problem with these terrorists,it could be your next door neighbour,so its hard to predict your enemies moves.

    agreed , the enemy within is a huge problem , that can only be solved by measures that target populations using profiling and then lock up people that fit the profile.

    not nice , but effective ( for a while anyway )


  • Options
    #1433
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    BoatMad wrote: »
    agreed , the enemy within is a huge problem , that can only be solved by measures that target populations using profiling and then lock up people that fit the profile.

    not nice , but effective ( for a while anyway )

    The guy in Nice was second generation and not religious at all according to reports. How can you profile for that?


  • Options
    #1434
    JuliusSeizure
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭JuliusSeizure


    20Cent wrote: »
    The guy in Nice was second generation and not religious at all according to reports. How can you profile for that?

    He arrived in 2005 and was arrested And jailed for crimes last year. He was also unskilled and worked menial jobs.

    He shouldn't have even been in France. Why did they allow him in? Why did they not deport him after he served his jail time? Questions that the French will be asking their governments today.


  • Options
    #1435
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    20Cent wrote: »
    The guy in Nice was second generation and not religious at all according to reports. How can you profile for that?

    evidence was that he was radicalised fast , so he developed a religious leaning. Good profiling would start to identify this.

    we unfortunately have to begin to consider a form of thought crime approach, because " prosecuting " after the fact is of rather no use.


  • Options
    #1436
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    BoatMad wrote: »
    agreed , the enemy within is a huge problem , that can only be solved by measures that target populations using profiling and then lock up people that fit the profile.

    not nice , but effective ( for a while anyway )

    True,only problem with the enemy within is to know when and where they will strike.
    And we cant make a criminal profile of 40 million muslims in Europe.
    The muslim society have a responsibility in this too,and i havent seen much reaction from their end as of yet.


  • Options
    #1437
    JuliusSeizure
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 55 ✭✭JuliusSeizure


    The attacker in Germany is a 17 year old Afghan. Bravo Merkel.


  • Options
    #1438
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    long range shooter wrote: »
    True,only problem with the enemy within is to know when and where they will strike.
    And we cant make a criminal profile of 40 million muslims in Europe.
    The muslim society have a responsibility in this too,and i havent seen much reaction fom their part as of yet.

    well unless the peaceful muslim community begin to inform on radical activities in their midst , we will end up targeting 19 million muslims in the EU ( 40 in all of " Europe ")


  • Options
    #1439
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,037 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    long range shooter wrote: »
    No where i come from its called nationalism, and protect what you believe in and people you care about.
    You seem to lack of that.

    no it's called being a thug, a scumbag, an extremist, a violent criminal, and a threat to the state.
    BoatMad wrote: »
    when we stop being " nice" and get serious

    we've all ready done that. plenty of anti-terror laws exist and are used. no more you can do. if you bomb countries and or persecute groups of people then that gives the extremists more followers. the security forces do stop 99% of these plots thankfully. of course we would like it to be 100% but sadly it's not realistic. things do slip through the cracks dispite the best efforts.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #1440
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    we've all ready done that. plenty of anti-terror laws exist and are used. no more you can do. if you bomb countries and or persecute groups of people then that gives the extremists more followers. the security forces do stop 99% of these plots thankfully. of course we would like it to be 100% but sadly it's probably not realistic. things do slip through the cracks diispite the best efforts.

    Then you are saying that we have to accept , that every few months 30-100 innocents European citizens will die !!! , potentially for years to come

    i dont see the public buying that one


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1441
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    BoatMad wrote: »
    well unless the peaceful muslim community begin to inform on radical activities in their midst , we will end up targeting 19 million muslims in the EU ( 40 in all of " Europe ")

    Exactly,and since the local muslim communites are known fo hiding their own,it doesnt make t any better,like after the Brussel attacks.


Advertisement