Rugby at the olympics. The draw is as follows ....

thebaz

brilliant game - delighted for Japan , they bring so much to world rugby

Kiwi_knock

Brazil beating Fiji, blow it up Ref

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

SBW has a partial Achilles rupture. Out of Rio, probably out of the Rugby Championship too.

What a shame for him.

The Lost Sheep

Just saw this on twitter....

NZ have lost two players in injury in the sevens but can replace only one so will be one short in the squad for the rest of Rio.

South Africans well on top against the French...

irishbucsfan

https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/763065545445040128

Spot on from McGeezer

swiwi_

I think bigbok might be right 😬

Gold for SA or Fiji

Kiwi_knock

Tough loss for Japan, missed a conversion at the end to get a draw that would have put them through to the QF.

swiwi_

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Tough loss for Japan, missed a conversion at the end to get a draw that would have put them through to the QF.

I find it slightly weird that at least 3 of the Japanese starting team looked Fijian/Tongan/Samoan. I suppose that's modern international rugby with the 3-year rule.

Japan looked good.

ThisRegard

Isles is a bit fast isn't he.

Kiwi_knock

BBC commentator loves Isles.

Hazys

swiwi_ wrote: »

I find it slightly weird that at least 3 of the Japanese starting team looked Fijian/Tongan/Samoan. I suppose that's modern international rugby with the 3-year rule.

Japan looked good.

Bit unfair to pick on Japanese for that, only 2 of their players are non-Japanese born and both have lived in Japan for much longer than 3 years.

France have a Fiji born player and i'm sure there are more nations with much larger player pools picking non-national born players

ThisRegard

What was the penalty against Argentina for that lead to the Fijian try?

Yeah_Right

ThisRegard wrote: »

What was the penalty against Argentina for that lead to the Fijian try?

I think it was for not releasing the ball. If so, the ref made a mistake as the Argie player wasn't held.

It may have been for something else.

Pudsy33

ThisRegard wrote: »

What was the penalty against Argentina for that lead to the Fijian try?

I thought it was a double movement myself, although that also seemed like it was the wrong call

ThisRegard

Yeah, I thought the same, I didn't think he was held so wondering if another player coming in did something that I missed.

Edit, yip, didn't look like a double movement either.

Ref probably called one of those but was wrong.

thebaz

swiwi_ wrote: »

I find it slightly weird that at least 3 of the Japanese starting team looked Fijian/Tongan/Samoan. I suppose that's modern international rugby with the 3-year rule..

don't know how you find it weird ,given you could say the same about most NZ teams which are usually loaded with Samoas best

Yeah_Right

thebaz wrote: »

don't know how you find it weird ,given you could say the same about most NZ teams which are usually loaded with Samoas best

Not sure if this is a joke, a troll or ignorance.

swiwi_

thebaz wrote: »

don't know how you find it weird ,given you could say the same about most NZ teams which are usually loaded with Samoas best

You know how a shìtload of Irish have jumped ship to other countries over the years, potato famine, economic stagnation, Celtic Tiger failure etc?

Then people breed. And then those kids grow up, and they breed too.

And eventually the offspring consider themselves Americans (for example) with Irish roots. Of course, some people just see freckles and ginger, and think he's Irish, couldn't possibly be American.

Just like when I see brown skin, I know they can't possibly be born in NZ, except for the Maoris of course, but otherwise it's just white fullas what make up NZ.

Anyway, this must be about the 10th iteration of this discussion, but history tells me the ignorant will remain ignorant.

(although I preach a little to myself, here, I see that those Pacific lads according to Hazys are not 3-year converts)

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

Anyway, this must be about the 10th iteration of this discussion

That's being conservative! But the horse has bolted there. It's a general perception that you can't get rid of now regardless of what facts you might have to do so.

thebaz

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Not sure if this is a joke, a troll or ignorance.

no its a snipe back at an ignorant comment made about the Japanese - so less less of the ignorance

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

no its a snipe back at an ignorant comment made about the Japanese - so less less of the ignorance

Of the 32 players in NZ's squad for the 2016 Rugby Championship, 27 were born in New Zealand.

Of the 5 not born in New Zealand;
Jerome Kaino (American Samoa) - moved to New Zealand aged 4
Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Australia) - moved to New Zealand aged 13
Ofa Tu'ungafasi (Tonga) - moved to New Zealand aged 14
Waisake Naholo (Fiji) - Moved to NZ aged 17.
Malakai Fekitoa (Tonga) - Gained a rugby scholarship aged 17 in NZ


Only Fekitoa has any dubiosity whatsoever about him imo.

I'd say that this comment is deeply unfair to the point of being totally wrong.

thebaz wrote: »

don't know how you find it weird ,given you could say the same about most NZ teams which are usually loaded with Samoas best

swiwi_

thebaz wrote: »

no its a snipe back at an ignorant comment made about the Japanese - so less less of the ignorance

There is no large Polynesian population born & bred in Japan (Japanese society is one of the most monocultural in the world), which is not the case for NZ where there are large NZ-born Polynesian communities (as we say in NZ, Auckland is the capital of Samoa), so the comment is not ignorant but based on demographics.

I'm somewhat bored with the whole thing but I hate the inherent racism.

Brown skin = considers themselves first & foremost Samoan/Tongan/Fijian (even if they are 3rd generation NZers), NZ is an afterthought and they are poached.

In a hypothetical situation, we have Seamus & Siobhan Murphy who move to America in their 20s. They consider themselves Irish, and will probaby always do so. Their kids Niamh and Ronan are born in Chicago, and while aware of their Irish roots, tend to consider themselves American. A few years later, Niamh's kids Steve and Grace consider themselves 100% American. thebaz jnr II considers them American, and is happy the USA hasn't poached them.

Meanwhile, the same scenario plays out when Kevesi and La’ei Lopamaua move from Samoa to New Zealand. 2 generations later, and their grandson Saepele plays rugby for NZ. thebaz jnr II sees the brown skin, and more vowels than consonants in the name, and assumes they are Samoan. They have clearly been poached by NZ.

And so on. For a country that has exported its citizens far and wide around the world, a certain segment of the Irish population remains grossly ignorant about emigration IMHO.

Anyway, that's it, I won't derail the Olympic rugby thread (if I haven't already).

Fair play to Japan, they were very good in both games yesterday.

nehe milner skudder

swiwi_ wrote: »

There is no large Polynesian population born & bred in Japan (Japanese society is one of the most monocultural in the world), which is not the case for NZ where there are large NZ-born Polynesian communities (as we say in NZ, Auckland is the capital of Samoa), so the comment is not ignorant but based on demographics.

I'm somewhat bored with the whole thing but I hate the inherent racism.

Brown skin = considers themselves first & foremost Samoan/Tongan/Fijian (even if they are 3rd generation NZers), NZ is an afterthought and they are poached.

In a hypothetical situation, we have Seamus & Siobhan Murphy who move to America in their 20s. They consider themselves Irish, and will probaby always do so. Their kids Niamh and Ronan are born in Chicago, and while aware of their Irish roots, tend to consider themselves American. A few years later, Niamh's kids Steve and Grace consider themselves 100% American. thebaz jnr II considers them American, and is happy the USA hasn't poached them.

Meanwhile, the same scenario plays out when Kevesi and La’ei Lopamaua move from Samoa to New Zealand. 2 generations later, and their grandson Saepele plays rugby for NZ. thebaz jnr II sees the brown skin, and more vowels than consonants in the name, and assumes they are Samoan. They have clearly been poached by NZ.

And so on. For a country that has exported its citizens far and wide around the world, a certain segment of the Irish population remains grossly ignorant about emigration IMHO.

Anyway, that's it, I won't derail the Olympic rugby thread (if I haven't already).

Fair play to Japan, they were very good in both games yesterday.

Very well put. The best post I've seen on the issue.

manu tuilagi - born in england. not poached
heaslip and o gara , born abroad but always lived in ireland. not poached.

stander and payne- blatant poaches of fully fledged professional players.


but any way. should have a thread of its own. id be interested to see where people think the line should be drawn.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

but any way. should have a thread of its own. id be interested to see where people think the line should be drawn.

God no. It gets thrown into every bloody thread on rugby as it is.

Hazys

Not to keep dragging this out* but I'm only guessing Rugby 7s in the Olympics would follow the IOC's eligibility rules over the IRB's eligibility rules.

So for the players to compete in the Olympics they would need a passport for that country not just to have lived in the country for 3 years. So it's a much higher standard than normal rugby.




*then don't post, idiot

Teferi

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

heaslip and o gara , born abroad but always lived in ireland. not poached.

I'm always mildly amused when these pair are brought up as 'non-foreign foreigners' when it comes to birth place. Basically both were 'unlucky' that their Irish parents happened to be in not-Ireland at the time of their birth but they're fully Irish.

thebaz

swiwi_ wrote: »

I'm somewhat bored with the whole thing but I hate the inherent racism.


Fair play to Japan, they were very good in both games yesterday.

and I hate racism period - anyway was just backing the underdog - we'll move on

love to see Japan pick up a medal rather than the usual suspects

Yeah_Right

Hazys wrote: »

Not to keep dragging this out* but I'm only guessing Rugby 7s in the Olympics would follow the IOC's eligibility rules over the IRB's eligibility rules.

So for the players to compete in the Olympics they would need a passport for that country not just to have lived in the country for 3 years. So it's a much higher standard than normal rugby.




*then don't post, idiot

That makes things interesting. Merlene Ottey ran for Jamaica for million years, winning multiple medals. She finally failed to make the team, moved to some European country, got a passport and competed for them. Hope rugby doesn't go down this route where UAE become the dominant super power by handing out passports.

Also, NMS, Manu Tuilagi wasn't born in England.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That makes things interesting. Merlene Ottey ran for Jamaica for million years, winning multiple medals. She finally failed to make the team, moved to some European country, got a passport and competed for them. Hope rugby doesn't go down this route where UAE become the dominant super power by handing out passports.

Also, NMS, Manu Tuilagi wasn't born in England.

There was a thing recently where an Irish athlete finished 4th in the Europeans in a race that was won by a Kenyan. She was raging afterwards.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/athletics/theres-absolutely-no-reason-people-would-want-to-emigrate-to-turkey-furious-fionnuala-mccormack-blasts-country-hoppers-34863138.html

It's a fair point, I mean if a country is very strong in a particular event there will be really good athletes who don't make the team. Sure Ireland have a guy in the diving in Rio who won a medal for England at the Commonwealth games in 2014, and a US swimmer who was "forced" to live in Ireland for a year so he could represent us in Rio. Everyone's at it.

nehe milner skudder

Teferi wrote: »

I'm always mildly amused when these pair are brought up as 'non-foreign foreigners' when it comes to birth place. Basically both were 'unlucky' that their Irish parents happened to be in not-Ireland at the time of their birth but they're fully Irish.

agreed.