Rugby at the olympics. The draw is as follows ....

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why do you think there is a correlation between success in 7s game and 15s game as there isn't really. 7s has become very much a specialist game and when you say invest heavily in 7s in terms of Ireland and the IRFU? What do you want this money to be spent on and where do you take it from in terms of current benefit.
It isn't due to 7s that the Argies/Aussies etc were playing such free flowing rugby in the last 15s world cup
It isn't criminal at all that we don't have a team in the Olympics. There is only 12 spots. Because we are not competing at the world series level we were competing for only 2 spots and we finished 7th in the final ranking tournament where there was only 1 spot in the Olympics up for grabs

I didn't necessarily say there was a correlation between success at 7s and 15s. I'm saying that the inquest into our world cup failure was all about how we lacked the skills, mobility, ability to offload in the tackle etc that are the bread and butter of the 7s game.

I'm not sure how to address it, but off the top of my head why not take some of the money, e.g. 10% off the funding of the provincial academies, and get Ireland playing on the international 7s circuit. We could use it to blood up and coming players and give them a different experience. Something different to build a type of player with wit and skill and the ability to think on their feet.

The academies seem to be building these physically fit but one dimensional players, completely lacking in the type of skills seen among southern hemisphere players.

I mean who is our most skilful back since O'Driscoll retired? We seem to have a bunch of sticks in the backs. Zero flair, zero imagination.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't necessarily say there was a correlation between success at 7s and 15s. I'm saying that the inquest into our world cup failure was all about how we lacked the skills, mobility, ability to offload in the tackle etc that are the bread and butter of the 7s game.

I'm not sure how to address it, but off the top of my head why not take some of the money, e.g. 10% off the funding of the provincial academies, and get Ireland playing on the international 7s circuit. We could use it to blood up and coming players and give them a different experience. Something different to build a type of player with wit and skill and the ability to think on their feet.

The academies seem to be building these physically fit but one dimensional players, completely lacking in the type of skills seen among southern hemisphere players.

I mean who is our most skilful back since O'Driscoll retired? We seem to have a bunch of sticks in the backs. Zero flair, zero imagination.

But 7s is very different to the 15 man game. Space etc and taking what is a very small budget on the academies to invest in 7s would be idiotic and wouldn't even cover the 7s set up.

irishbucsfan

At the moment we're seeing increased funding to 7s and the best thing to do is wait and see how beneficial it is. It'll be very interesting to see how the likes of Byrne/Daly/Dardis develop with 7s rugby under their belts. If it's successful for the current men and women then we'll likely see an increase in funding.

There's not really a credible argument to say that an increase in funding will lead to an improvement in our back play at senior level, it didn't really follow that way in Wales after they focused on 7s (and indeed won the 7s world cup). I think it's likely we're very close to an optimal setup, with academy players also playing 7s.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But 7s is very different to the 15 man game. Space etc and taking what is a very small budget on the academies to invest in 7s would be idiotic and wouldn't even cover the 7s set up.

Yes but we have tried the academy route and it is producing automatons. I think it is something that might be worth trying.
We can't simply be unable to play skilful running rugby just because we're Irish. It has to be coached and what better way than by playing competitive international 7s rugby against the world's best?

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but we have tried the academy route and it is producing automatons. I think it is something that might be worth trying.
We can't simply be unable to play skilful running rugby just because we're Irish. It has to be coached and what better way than by playing competitive international 7s rugby against the world's best?

That's nonsense. The academy system doesn't produce "automatons" and we are getting involved in the 7s set up
We attempted to qualify and hopefully in next years Hong Kong 7s when the next world series qualifying tournament is held we enter and win but to say playing 7s will suddenly change the philosophy within irish rugby is just nonsense.
We are able to play skilful running rugby and it is coached at many levels but too often especially at some levels where the principal competitions of the year that teams focus on are cup based we see negative cup style rugby but having a 7s team wont change that
We don't need to play 7s rugby to have more sides at the top level in 15s playing "skilful running rugby"

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

At the moment we're seeing increased funding to 7s and the best thing to do is wait and see how beneficial it is. It'll be very interesting to see how the likes of Byrne/Daly/Dardis develop with 7s rugby under their belts. If it's successful for the current men and women then we'll likely see an increase in funding.

But if the players that you mentioned don't become successful at the 15s game, will you attribute that to the 7s experiment or to the academy system?

It would be foolish to scrap the 7s funding without fully giving it a go.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's nonsense. The academy system doesn't produce "automatons"

Dunno. Every time I watch the international team I don't see any backs with real imagination or flair. Since O'Driscoll retired our backs have been stale and dull.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

But if the players that you mentioned don't become successful at the 15s game, will you attribute that to the 7s experiment or to the academy system?

It would be foolish to scrap the 7s funding without fully giving it a go.

What exactly would be "fully giving 7s a go" anyway?
We have entered the tiered competitions we have been eligible for. We have also entered national 7s development teams in UK based tournaments against top invitational 7s sides and other national sides.
We haven't competed in any world series events because we have had no right to. We started off in the bottom tier of European 7s last summer winning divisions C and B before winning division A this summer. We have given it a go and will continue playing next year and beyond. We are "giving it a go". We are qualified for the grand prix series which will give us 3 weekends of games against Europes best next summer

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

But if the players that you mentioned don't become successful at the 15s game, will you attribute that to the 7s experiment or to the academy system?

It would be foolish to scrap the 7s funding without fully giving it a go.

I would attribute it to them just not being good enough as prospects for 15s rugby. They might end up being excellent 7s players and poor 15s players, that happens fairly often.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What exactly would be "fully giving 7s a go" anyway?
We have entered the tiered competitions we have been eligible for. We have also entered national 7s development teams in UK based tournaments against top invitational 7s sides and other national sides.
We haven't competed in any world series events because we have had no right to. We started off in the bottom tier of European 7s last summer winning divisions C and B before winning division A this summer. We have given it a go and will continue playing next year and beyond. We are "giving it a go". We are qualified for the grand prix series which will give us 3 weekends of games against Europes best next summer

To be honest you are more knowledgeable that I am, I didn't realise we had been playing in this European 7s series.
Hopefully we can get ourselves onto the world 7s circuit sooner rather than later. That would be my ideal of "giving it a go", namely to be playing competitively against the world's best 7s teams.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Dunno. Every time I watch the international team I don't see any backs with real imagination or flair. Since O'Driscoll retired our backs have been stale and dull.

But does that have anything to do with 7s?

Looking at someone like Wales or England, they don't seem to be producing more skillful backs than we do despite the fact they have given more resources to the 7s game over a longer period.

The games are so different that the most senior 7s teams don't affect the most senior 15s teams, because the sports diverge so much at the top.

A good example is actually on our women's team where Lucy Mulhall runs the show but actually doesn't even play 15s rugby (or didn't last I checked). I think the women's side will actually see a quicker return from their investment in 7s because there are a few more opportunities there for crossover.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest you are more knowledgeable that I am, I didn't realise we had been playing in this European 7s series.
Hopefully we can get ourselves onto the world 7s circuit sooner rather than later. That would be my ideal of "giving it a go", namely to be playing competitively against the world's best 7s teams.

But we can only compete against the worlds best when we get to that level on merit. We haven't done that yet

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But does that have anything to do with 7s?

Looking at someone like Wales or England, they don't seem to be producing more skillful backs than we do despite the fact they have given more resources to the 7s game over a longer period.

The games are so different that the most senior 7s teams don't affect the most senior 15s teams, because the sports diverge so much at the top.

A good example is actually on our women's team where Lucy Mulhall runs the show but actually doesn't even play 15s rugby (or didn't last I checked). I think the women's side will actually see a quicker return from their investment in 7s because there are a few more opportunities there for crossover.

Yeah Mulhall came through the talent id set up which was also created for the mens game but none came through it possibly because of the greater depth within the mens game.

The Lost Sheep

Day one over
5 of the quarter finalists decided
Australia, New Zealand, France, Canada and GB all through
Fiji or US will definitely be through and then its 2 best 3rd placed teams

The Lost Sheep

Assuming Fiji beat Colombia it'll be in the quarters...
Australia v Spain
NZ v USA
GB v Fiji
Canada v France

dtpc191991

Impressed with the women's team GB. They look very good.

irishbucsfan

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Impressed with the women's team GB. They look very good.

They're good and so are their potential opponents (both NZ and the US team)

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest you are more knowledgeable that I am, I didn't realise we had been playing in this European 7s series.
Hopefully we can get ourselves onto the world 7s circuit sooner rather than later. That would be my ideal of "giving it a go", namely to be playing competitively against the world's best 7s teams.

Wojtek, I agree that Ireland needs to play more at 7s and that it will help the skill level of the senior players. I've had this argument with The Lost Sheep a few times. He seems to be a bit anti-7s

It is a shame that the IRFU are only now getting into 7s. It would have been great to have seen Irish teams at the Olympics but they left it too late. I believe there needs to be more 7s tournaments at school and age group level and all young players should be encouraged to play it. This will help to develop the skills you are talking about. That will then see more skilful players coming through to the senior teams.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I've been enjoying the 7s in Rio.

I think they went a bit too big on the stadium which is a shame. It's out a bit from the city too so the crowds haven't been huge although there's a fair few there. I'd say it will go down better in Tokyo in 2020.

Seems to be a big difference in quality between the likes of Australia/New Zealand and the likes of Spain or even Japan. Hopefully some of the other countries can bring their levels up over the next 4 years.

I was reading about the South African's not sending their women's team because they didn't qualify through the World Series. I can see the logic, I suppose, but I'd say they'd have done better than Kenya who went in their place.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Wojtek, I agree that Ireland needs to play more at 7s and that it will help the skill level of the senior players. I've had this argument with The Lost Sheep a few times. He seems to be a bit anti-7s

It is a shame that the IRFU are only now getting into 7s. It would have been great to have seen Irish teams at the Olympics but they left it too late. I believe there needs to be more 7s tournaments at school and age group level and all young players should be encouraged to play it. This will help to develop the skills you are talking about. That will then see more skilful players coming through to the senior teams.

Yep totally anti 7s...
It is a shame but we're in the set up now and just need to get up to world series.
I totally agree on more competitions at age grade level.
It could also be a way to get kids from schools into clubs and to integrate club and schools players where theyre not already

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I've been enjoying the 7s in Rio.

I think they went a bit too big on the stadium which is a shame. It's out a bit from the city too so the crowds haven't been huge although there's a fair few there. I'd say it will go down better in Tokyo in 2020.

Seems to be a big difference in quality between the likes of Australia/New Zealand and the likes of Spain or even Japan. Hopefully some of the other countries can bring their levels up over the next 4 years.

I was reading about the South African's not sending their women's team because they didn't qualify through the World Series. I can see the logic, I suppose, but I'd say they'd have done better than Kenya who went in their place.

Well its a temporary stadium and rugby was originally meant to be in a bigger stadium so I wouldn't worry too much on it.
Rugby should do much better the next time considering Japan is a stronger rugby nation, more countries may see 7s as an option etc
There is a big difference in quality but its hard to get teams to jump up to level of big 4 in 7s...

swiwi_

GB ladies imploding here. I was nervous enough about this match, but YCs for deliberately holding back (clear as), and then a tackle while the player was airborne have probably handed this game on a platter to NZ.

Pity Luke McAlister was never as good as his sister...

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Well its a temporary stadium and rugby was originally meant to be in a bigger stadium so I wouldn't worry too much on it.
Rugby should do much better the next time considering Japan is a stronger rugby nation, more countries may see 7s as an option etc
There is a big difference in quality but its hard to get teams to jump up to level of big 4 in 7s...

Yeah, I was reading a preview of the women's event on ScrumQueens and they said France only decided to put a team together properly about 2 years ago, they had a bit of hassle with the 15s setup too, I think. Fiji had some issues too, no funding for the women and a resistance to them even playing from some of their families.

All in all I think it should be considered a success as a new Olympic sport.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

swiwi_ wrote: »

Pity Luke McAlister was never as good as his sister...

Herself and Woodman are extremely impressive.

swiwi_

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Herself and Woodman are extremely impressive.

Women's rugby in NZ seems to be really popular among the Maori population. Not too many pasties or Islanders as far as I can tell.

I think it's really great, there are high levels of smoking, diabetes etc among the female Maori population, so positive role models are great.

thebaz

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I've been enjoying the 7s in Rio.

I think they went a bit too big on the stadium which is a shame. It's out a bit from the city too so the crowds haven't been huge although there's a fair few there. I'd say it will go down better in Tokyo in 2020.

I would assume there will a much bigger crowd for mens , women's rugby doesn't really pull in the crowds - two best teams in final , should be good - fancy NZ

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

thebaz wrote: »

I would assume there will a much bigger crowd for mens , women's rugby doesn't really pull in the crowds - two best teams in final , should be good - fancy NZ

Nothing has been pulling in the crowds in Rio.

AbusesToilets

USA creaming France here.

Marcusm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Nothing has been pulling in the crowds in Rio.

Speaking as someone here on the ground attending the second of 11 events, I think this is unfair. The venues are sized for the later stages rather than the preliminaries. The same issues arose for Lindon 2012 (attended about 10 days while living there).

Brazil is a country with a decent sized middle class but the bulk of the population is not familiar with many of the sports and doesn't have the time or money to attend on spec. There is also a culture of buying tickets on the day of the event which has not worked so well when the security quesues are undersized as with the beach volleyball yesterday.

In the end of the day 80% of the tickets have been sold and most of the attendees are Brazilian despite the deep recession and political issues. When the local police and teachers haven't been paid for 3 months, you know that there are problems.

molloyjh

The Canadian women are great to watch. Their breakdown work and skill levels are really, really good.

Yeah_Right

swiwi_ wrote: »

Pity Luke McAlister was never as good as his sister...

They run the ball the same. She's just better at it.

LuckyGent88

Slight knock on for the Australian try I think. Should have reviewed it at least