Rugby at the olympics. The draw is as follows ....

Adbrowne

Group A: Fiji, United States, Argentina, Brazil.

Group B: South Africa, Australia, France, Spain.

Group C: New Zealand, Britain, Kenya, Japan.

pickarooney

Hard to believe Spain are better than Samoa

Felix Jones is God

Ireland and Italy are the only 2 major nations not there ....not sure I'm too bothered in truth

JaCrispy

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Ireland and Italy are the only 2 major nations not there ....not sure I'm too bothered in truth

Wales and Scotland?

Adbrowne

JaCrispy wrote: »

Wales and Scotland?

britain

ThisRegard

JaCrispy wrote: »

Wales and Scotland?

Covered by Britain. (Until the next referendum)

What sort of panel line up for those teams?

moleyv

Actually is the Irish team ROI, or all island. Since its normally GB & NI in the Olympics.

Glenbhoy

moleyv wrote: »

Actually is the Irish team ROI, or all island. Since its normally GB & NI in the Olympics.

It's not really, it depends on the individual, I'd say the vast majority of northerners who have competed at Olympic games have done so for Ireland (45% of the population would choose to do so regardless, persons from the other 55% often see their representative chances increase by declaring for Ireland).

In Irish rugby's case as it's an All Ireland sport, then presumably the rugby sevens were based on the players under the IRFU jurisdiction.

The Lost Sheep

Adbrowne wrote: »

Group A: Fiji, United States, Argentina, Brazil.

Group B: South Africa, Australia, France, Spain.

Group C: New Zealand, Britain, Kenya, Japan.

Suppose we may as well have separate thread for the tournament...
Below are teams in Womens tournament
Brazil, Oz, Canada, GB, NZ, Columbia, US, France, Kenya, Fiji, Japan, Spain

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Ireland and Italy are the only 2 major nations not there ....not sure I'm too bothered in truth

Think we're missing out and we should considering how much others are using 7s...

ThisRegard wrote: »

Covered by Britain. (Until the next referendum)

What sort of panel line up for those teams?

Squads? Will be mainly specialists but there is some 15s who've crossed over.

moleyv wrote: »

Actually is the Irish team ROI, or all island. Since its normally GB & NI in the Olympics.

All island. No NI would make GB side anyway...

moleyv

Glenbhoy wrote:

In Irish rugby's case as it's an All Ireland sport, then presumably the rugby sevens were based on the players under the IRFU jurisdiction.

Yes I understand a person from the north would be able to choose their preference, but the teams would be called ROI and GB & NI?

The normal sevens team would be just Ireland? So would they have to change entity for the Olympics (if they were in it).

These are questions by the way, not me stating facts, its just questions that came to me as I don't really follow sevens.

The Lost Sheep

moleyv wrote: »

Yes I understand a person from the north would be able to choose their preference, but the teams would be called ROI and GB & NI?

The normal sevens team would be just Ireland? So would they have to change entity for the Olympics (if they were in it).

These are questions by the way, not me stating facts, its just questions that came to me as I don't really follow sevens.

They wouldn't be able to choose. IRFU said they wouldn't and there would have to have been a legal challenge to that. The IRFU and each of unions in Eng, Scot, Wales essentially made an agreement that NI players would play for Ireland.
The normal 7s team would just be Ireland but the entity wouldn't essentially have to change as the Olympic eligibility is different.

moleyv

Thanks for the clarifications.

Are the games going to be played in a traditional sevens tournament style, or more spread out?

I kind of hope its spread out, I'd be more willing to watch then.

ThisRegard

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Squads? Will be mainly specialists but there is some 15s who've crossed over.
..

As in they're all professionals playing for union or league club teams, with some players not playing high level club rugby but pretty good at sevens, or a little from every column? I've seen the make up of the GB team so wondering how the other countries approach it.

The Lost Sheep

moleyv wrote: »

Thanks for the clarifications.

Are the games going to be played in a traditional sevens tournament style, or more spread out?

I kind of hope its spread out, I'd be more willing to watch then.

I understand games will be slightly more spread out. There is only 12 teams and games will be played over 3 days. There is 3 groups of 4 followed by quarters etc.

The Lost Sheep

ThisRegard wrote: »

As in they're all professionals playing for union or league club teams, with some players not playing high level club rugby but pretty good at sevens, or a little from every column? I've seen the make up of the GB team so wondering how the other countries approach it.

The GB team is mainly 7s specialists though is it not? There is some club pros playing. Who are the league guys involved?
Look up, google countries.... . Most countries will overwhelmingly use the players they've used in world series with the odd 15 man game star crossing over for the games

locum-motion

moleyv wrote: »

... Since its normally GB & NI in the Olympics.

No, it's not. It's normally "GB" at the Olympics, NI usually not mentioned.

Of course, most NI competitors choose to compete for IRL as others have said. If they want to compete for GB, they can, but the name of the team doesn't change.

moleyv

locum-motion wrote:

No, it's not. It's normally "GB" at the Olympics, NI usually not mentioned.

I disagree. Team GB, or when they give it its full title, they say Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I lived in the north during the 2012 Olympics so its something that stuck with me.

In the corner of the TV it would just say GB.

ArmaniJeanss

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I understand games will be slightly more spread out. There is only 12 teams and games will be played over 3 days. There is 3 groups of 4 followed by quarters etc.

That's almost too spread out.
3 groups so just 18 group games in total. Then 7 knockout games. Though they'll presumably have plates and shields and stuff for lower placings.
But they are having two different three hour ticketing slots on each of the three days, so difficult to see how theres enough games to spread it out such that's its a worthwhile ticket to buy.
https://smsprio2016-a.akamaihd.net/sport/rtfhAw/rio2016_spectator_guide_og_rugby_en.pdf (page 2)

The Lost Sheep

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

That's almost too spread out.
3 groups so just 18 group games in total. Then 7 knockout games. Though they'll presumably have plates and shields and stuff for lower placings.
But they are having two different three hour ticketing slots on each of the three days, so difficult to see how theres enough games to spread it out such that's its a worthwhile ticket to buy.
https://smsprio2016-a.akamaihd.net/sport/rtfhAw/rio2016_spectator_guide_og_rugby_en.pdf (page 2)

AFAIK it is

Day 1 for round 1 (6 matches) and 1 for round 2 (6 matches).

Day 2 is round 3 (6 matches) then quarter finals + bowl semis.

Day 3 is plate/cup semis + bowl finals and plate finals + cup finals (bronze and gold medals matches).

So essentially its 2 matches a day for each team

RichieRich89

It was pretty impressive how Morris Kirksey won silver in the 100m, and picked up a gold in rugby last time out

The Lost Sheep

NZ squads named.
http://www.worldrugby.org/news/174026
Men's squad: Scott Curry (captain), Sam Dickson, DJ Forbes, Akira Ioane, Rieko Ioane, Gillies Kaka, Tim Mikkelson, Augustine Pulu, Teddy Stanaway, Regan Ware, Joe Webber, Sonny Bill Williams.

Travelling reserves; Sione Molia, Lewis Ormond.

Women's squad: Shakira Baker, Kelly Brazier, Gayle Broughton, Theresa Fitzpatrick, Sarah Goss (captain), Kayla McAlister, Huriana Manuel, Tyla Nathan-Wong, Terina Te Tamaki, Ruby Tui, Niall Williams, Portia Woodman.

Travelling reserves: Michaela Blyde, Shiray Tane

The Lost Sheep

French squads named.
http://www.worldrugby.org/news/175081
Men's squad: Jérémy Aicardi, Steeve Barry, Terry Bouhraoua (captain), Julien Candelon, Damien Cler, Manoël Dall Igna, Vincent Inigo, Pierre-Gilles Lakafia, Jonathan Laugel, Stephen Parez, Virimi Vakatawa, Sacha Valleau.

Women's squad: Audrey Amiel, Pauline Biscarat, Camille Grassineau, Lina Guérin, Elodie Guiglion, Fanny Horta (captain), Shannon Izar, Caroline Ladagnous, Jade le Pesq, Marjorie Mayans, Rose Thomas, Jennifer Troncy.


South Africa squad:
Kyle Brown (c), Tim Agaba, Philip Snyman, Werner Kok, Dylan Sage, Kwagga Smith, Rosko Specman, Cheslin Kolbe, Cecil Afrika, Justin Geduld, Juan de Jongh, Seabelo Senatla
Travelling reserves: Chris Dry, Francois Hougaard

thebaz

looking forward to the 7s in the Olympics - will anyone stop Fiji ? - All blacks I suppose , maybe Britain or US as a long shot - should be fun.

The Lost Sheep

thebaz wrote: »

looking forward to the 7s in the Olympics - will anyone stop Fiji? - All blacks I suppose, maybe Britain or US as a long shot - should be fun.

New Zealand, South Africa will definitely be challenging Fiji. Don't think its simply a case of anyone stopping Fiji by a long shot. Don't see USA or Britain as long shot for gold at all.

The Lost Sheep

Womens tournament starts Saturday..
First game 3pm between France and Spain

thebaz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Womens tournament starts Saturday..
First game 3pm between France and Spain

any idea when the mens starts ?

ps thought the Irish women were close to qualifying , what happened ?

dastardly00

thebaz wrote: »

any idea when the mens starts ?

Starts on Tuesday August 9th (3pm Irish time).
Continues on August 10th and August 11th. The gold medal match is at 11pm Irish time.

The Lost Sheep

thebaz wrote: »

any idea when the mens starts?

ps thought the Irish women were close to qualifying, what happened

Womens team were in the final qualifier and it was held in UCD in June. There was 1 spot up for grabs in that event and we got to the semi finals. Losing to Russia before beating Kazakstan to finish 3rd.
Spain qualified from that tournament.
Mens as others have posted is between August 9th and 11th

thebaz

thanks guys - was hoping for Irish participation , someone told the mens nearly qualified too , but Spain got in over the more fancied Samoa - regardless ,looking forward to it

It is ridiculous that we don't have a strong 7's team in the Olympics.

I can't help but feel that if Ireland invested heavily in the 7's format, it would reap dividends in the senior national team.

When you think about the cultivation of 7's skills, the running, flowing, passing style of play, it would help to generate a flow of players who are able to think on their feet like the Argies or Aussies were in the WC. In other words, it would be a tangible step towards bridging the glaring gap on display in the world cup.

It is criminal that we don't have a decent team in the Olympics when you consider how popular the sport is in this country. Can't believe it's not even really discussed in the media either, George Hook is the only pundit I've ever heard mention it.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

It is ridiculous that we don't have a strong 7's team in the Olympics.

I can't help but feel that if Ireland invested heavily in the 7's format, it would reap dividends in the senior national team.

When you think about the cultivation of 7's skills, the running, flowing, passing style of play, it would help to generate a flow of players who are able to think on their feet like the Argies or Aussies were in the WC. In other words, it would be a tangible step towards bridging the glaring gap on display in the world cup.

It is criminal that we don't have a decent team in the Olympics when you consider how popular the sport is in this country. Can't believe it's not even really discussed in the media either, George Hook is the only pundit I've ever heard mention it.

Why do you think there is a correlation between success in 7s game and 15s game as there isn't really. 7s has become very much a specialist game and when you say invest heavily in 7s in terms of Ireland and the IRFU? What do you want this money to be spent on and where do you take it from in terms of current benefit.
It isn't due to 7s that the Argies/Aussies etc were playing such free flowing rugby in the last 15s world cup
It isn't criminal at all that we don't have a team in the Olympics. There is only 12 spots. Because we are not competing at the world series level we were competing for only 2 spots and we finished 7th in the final ranking tournament where there was only 1 spot in the Olympics up for grabs

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why do you think there is a correlation between success in 7s game and 15s game as there isn't really. 7s has become very much a specialist game and when you say invest heavily in 7s in terms of Ireland and the IRFU? What do you want this money to be spent on and where do you take it from in terms of current benefit.
It isn't due to 7s that the Argies/Aussies etc were playing such free flowing rugby in the last 15s world cup
It isn't criminal at all that we don't have a team in the Olympics. There is only 12 spots. Because we are not competing at the world series level we were competing for only 2 spots and we finished 7th in the final ranking tournament where there was only 1 spot in the Olympics up for grabs

I didn't necessarily say there was a correlation between success at 7s and 15s. I'm saying that the inquest into our world cup failure was all about how we lacked the skills, mobility, ability to offload in the tackle etc that are the bread and butter of the 7s game.

I'm not sure how to address it, but off the top of my head why not take some of the money, e.g. 10% off the funding of the provincial academies, and get Ireland playing on the international 7s circuit. We could use it to blood up and coming players and give them a different experience. Something different to build a type of player with wit and skill and the ability to think on their feet.

The academies seem to be building these physically fit but one dimensional players, completely lacking in the type of skills seen among southern hemisphere players.

I mean who is our most skilful back since O'Driscoll retired? We seem to have a bunch of sticks in the backs. Zero flair, zero imagination.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't necessarily say there was a correlation between success at 7s and 15s. I'm saying that the inquest into our world cup failure was all about how we lacked the skills, mobility, ability to offload in the tackle etc that are the bread and butter of the 7s game.

I'm not sure how to address it, but off the top of my head why not take some of the money, e.g. 10% off the funding of the provincial academies, and get Ireland playing on the international 7s circuit. We could use it to blood up and coming players and give them a different experience. Something different to build a type of player with wit and skill and the ability to think on their feet.

The academies seem to be building these physically fit but one dimensional players, completely lacking in the type of skills seen among southern hemisphere players.

I mean who is our most skilful back since O'Driscoll retired? We seem to have a bunch of sticks in the backs. Zero flair, zero imagination.

But 7s is very different to the 15 man game. Space etc and taking what is a very small budget on the academies to invest in 7s would be idiotic and wouldn't even cover the 7s set up.

irishbucsfan

At the moment we're seeing increased funding to 7s and the best thing to do is wait and see how beneficial it is. It'll be very interesting to see how the likes of Byrne/Daly/Dardis develop with 7s rugby under their belts. If it's successful for the current men and women then we'll likely see an increase in funding.

There's not really a credible argument to say that an increase in funding will lead to an improvement in our back play at senior level, it didn't really follow that way in Wales after they focused on 7s (and indeed won the 7s world cup). I think it's likely we're very close to an optimal setup, with academy players also playing 7s.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But 7s is very different to the 15 man game. Space etc and taking what is a very small budget on the academies to invest in 7s would be idiotic and wouldn't even cover the 7s set up.

Yes but we have tried the academy route and it is producing automatons. I think it is something that might be worth trying.
We can't simply be unable to play skilful running rugby just because we're Irish. It has to be coached and what better way than by playing competitive international 7s rugby against the world's best?

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but we have tried the academy route and it is producing automatons. I think it is something that might be worth trying.
We can't simply be unable to play skilful running rugby just because we're Irish. It has to be coached and what better way than by playing competitive international 7s rugby against the world's best?

That's nonsense. The academy system doesn't produce "automatons" and we are getting involved in the 7s set up
We attempted to qualify and hopefully in next years Hong Kong 7s when the next world series qualifying tournament is held we enter and win but to say playing 7s will suddenly change the philosophy within irish rugby is just nonsense.
We are able to play skilful running rugby and it is coached at many levels but too often especially at some levels where the principal competitions of the year that teams focus on are cup based we see negative cup style rugby but having a 7s team wont change that
We don't need to play 7s rugby to have more sides at the top level in 15s playing "skilful running rugby"

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

At the moment we're seeing increased funding to 7s and the best thing to do is wait and see how beneficial it is. It'll be very interesting to see how the likes of Byrne/Daly/Dardis develop with 7s rugby under their belts. If it's successful for the current men and women then we'll likely see an increase in funding.

But if the players that you mentioned don't become successful at the 15s game, will you attribute that to the 7s experiment or to the academy system?

It would be foolish to scrap the 7s funding without fully giving it a go.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's nonsense. The academy system doesn't produce "automatons"

Dunno. Every time I watch the international team I don't see any backs with real imagination or flair. Since O'Driscoll retired our backs have been stale and dull.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

But if the players that you mentioned don't become successful at the 15s game, will you attribute that to the 7s experiment or to the academy system?

It would be foolish to scrap the 7s funding without fully giving it a go.

What exactly would be "fully giving 7s a go" anyway?
We have entered the tiered competitions we have been eligible for. We have also entered national 7s development teams in UK based tournaments against top invitational 7s sides and other national sides.
We haven't competed in any world series events because we have had no right to. We started off in the bottom tier of European 7s last summer winning divisions C and B before winning division A this summer. We have given it a go and will continue playing next year and beyond. We are "giving it a go". We are qualified for the grand prix series which will give us 3 weekends of games against Europes best next summer

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

But if the players that you mentioned don't become successful at the 15s game, will you attribute that to the 7s experiment or to the academy system?

It would be foolish to scrap the 7s funding without fully giving it a go.

I would attribute it to them just not being good enough as prospects for 15s rugby. They might end up being excellent 7s players and poor 15s players, that happens fairly often.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What exactly would be "fully giving 7s a go" anyway?
We have entered the tiered competitions we have been eligible for. We have also entered national 7s development teams in UK based tournaments against top invitational 7s sides and other national sides.
We haven't competed in any world series events because we have had no right to. We started off in the bottom tier of European 7s last summer winning divisions C and B before winning division A this summer. We have given it a go and will continue playing next year and beyond. We are "giving it a go". We are qualified for the grand prix series which will give us 3 weekends of games against Europes best next summer

To be honest you are more knowledgeable that I am, I didn't realise we had been playing in this European 7s series.
Hopefully we can get ourselves onto the world 7s circuit sooner rather than later. That would be my ideal of "giving it a go", namely to be playing competitively against the world's best 7s teams.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Dunno. Every time I watch the international team I don't see any backs with real imagination or flair. Since O'Driscoll retired our backs have been stale and dull.

But does that have anything to do with 7s?

Looking at someone like Wales or England, they don't seem to be producing more skillful backs than we do despite the fact they have given more resources to the 7s game over a longer period.

The games are so different that the most senior 7s teams don't affect the most senior 15s teams, because the sports diverge so much at the top.

A good example is actually on our women's team where Lucy Mulhall runs the show but actually doesn't even play 15s rugby (or didn't last I checked). I think the women's side will actually see a quicker return from their investment in 7s because there are a few more opportunities there for crossover.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest you are more knowledgeable that I am, I didn't realise we had been playing in this European 7s series.
Hopefully we can get ourselves onto the world 7s circuit sooner rather than later. That would be my ideal of "giving it a go", namely to be playing competitively against the world's best 7s teams.

But we can only compete against the worlds best when we get to that level on merit. We haven't done that yet

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But does that have anything to do with 7s?

Looking at someone like Wales or England, they don't seem to be producing more skillful backs than we do despite the fact they have given more resources to the 7s game over a longer period.

The games are so different that the most senior 7s teams don't affect the most senior 15s teams, because the sports diverge so much at the top.

A good example is actually on our women's team where Lucy Mulhall runs the show but actually doesn't even play 15s rugby (or didn't last I checked). I think the women's side will actually see a quicker return from their investment in 7s because there are a few more opportunities there for crossover.

Yeah Mulhall came through the talent id set up which was also created for the mens game but none came through it possibly because of the greater depth within the mens game.

The Lost Sheep

Day one over
5 of the quarter finalists decided
Australia, New Zealand, France, Canada and GB all through
Fiji or US will definitely be through and then its 2 best 3rd placed teams

The Lost Sheep

Assuming Fiji beat Colombia it'll be in the quarters...
Australia v Spain
NZ v USA
GB v Fiji
Canada v France

dtpc191991

Impressed with the women's team GB. They look very good.

irishbucsfan

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Impressed with the women's team GB. They look very good.

They're good and so are their potential opponents (both NZ and the US team)

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest you are more knowledgeable that I am, I didn't realise we had been playing in this European 7s series.
Hopefully we can get ourselves onto the world 7s circuit sooner rather than later. That would be my ideal of "giving it a go", namely to be playing competitively against the world's best 7s teams.

Wojtek, I agree that Ireland needs to play more at 7s and that it will help the skill level of the senior players. I've had this argument with The Lost Sheep a few times. He seems to be a bit anti-7s

It is a shame that the IRFU are only now getting into 7s. It would have been great to have seen Irish teams at the Olympics but they left it too late. I believe there needs to be more 7s tournaments at school and age group level and all young players should be encouraged to play it. This will help to develop the skills you are talking about. That will then see more skilful players coming through to the senior teams.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I've been enjoying the 7s in Rio.

I think they went a bit too big on the stadium which is a shame. It's out a bit from the city too so the crowds haven't been huge although there's a fair few there. I'd say it will go down better in Tokyo in 2020.

Seems to be a big difference in quality between the likes of Australia/New Zealand and the likes of Spain or even Japan. Hopefully some of the other countries can bring their levels up over the next 4 years.

I was reading about the South African's not sending their women's team because they didn't qualify through the World Series. I can see the logic, I suppose, but I'd say they'd have done better than Kenya who went in their place.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Wojtek, I agree that Ireland needs to play more at 7s and that it will help the skill level of the senior players. I've had this argument with The Lost Sheep a few times. He seems to be a bit anti-7s

It is a shame that the IRFU are only now getting into 7s. It would have been great to have seen Irish teams at the Olympics but they left it too late. I believe there needs to be more 7s tournaments at school and age group level and all young players should be encouraged to play it. This will help to develop the skills you are talking about. That will then see more skilful players coming through to the senior teams.

Yep totally anti 7s...
It is a shame but we're in the set up now and just need to get up to world series.
I totally agree on more competitions at age grade level.
It could also be a way to get kids from schools into clubs and to integrate club and schools players where theyre not already

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I've been enjoying the 7s in Rio.

I think they went a bit too big on the stadium which is a shame. It's out a bit from the city too so the crowds haven't been huge although there's a fair few there. I'd say it will go down better in Tokyo in 2020.

Seems to be a big difference in quality between the likes of Australia/New Zealand and the likes of Spain or even Japan. Hopefully some of the other countries can bring their levels up over the next 4 years.

I was reading about the South African's not sending their women's team because they didn't qualify through the World Series. I can see the logic, I suppose, but I'd say they'd have done better than Kenya who went in their place.

Well its a temporary stadium and rugby was originally meant to be in a bigger stadium so I wouldn't worry too much on it.
Rugby should do much better the next time considering Japan is a stronger rugby nation, more countries may see 7s as an option etc
There is a big difference in quality but its hard to get teams to jump up to level of big 4 in 7s...

swiwi_

GB ladies imploding here. I was nervous enough about this match, but YCs for deliberately holding back (clear as), and then a tackle while the player was airborne have probably handed this game on a platter to NZ.

Pity Luke McAlister was never as good as his sister...