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you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air

    Racist? How exactly do you justify that?

    Accusations of racism are often used to justify attacks on perfectly reasonable discussion of immigration policy.

    I have never referred (directly or indirectly) to any race, ethnicity or nationality in this or any other discussion.

    Post edited by air on

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air

    Freedom of movement does not include residency as you state, there are conditions which must be met to avail of residency.

    I would suggest that these existing rules should be enforced in Ireland in much the same way as they are in other EU member states.

    I disagree that we "need" large volumes of non EU workers under a work permit system, we managed perfectly fine without these workers for the majority of hour history, what has changed now?

    LMAO, so we need immigrants to meet demand for housing that is brought about solely by immigration!

    You sound like the kind of person that would add workers to an overloaded ship to help bail out the water rushing in over the side as a result of its having too many people on board.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,747 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    It's bog standard racist dogwhistling and anyone can see it.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    What’s your opinion on the shutdown of travel last year? As a fairly hysterical poster on covid I’m sure you were strongly pro. Given this closure of travel has been set as a precedent I’m sure we could imagine get out clauses within the EU common travel area for other reasons. In fact we have those already.

    anyway this thread is off topic. Will be be a majority renter society in the future or not? Is this a good thing.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp1

    I'm curious what happens in this fictional scenario.

    BattleCorp earns €50k per year. He pays €15k per year in rent which he can easily afford. He does this for 40 years and then he retires.

    Oh oh. BattleCorps pension is way less than he was on before he retired. BattleCorp's pension didn't do too well. He was unlucky that the stockmarket was down at the time he was retiring. His pension isn't too good. He now gets a pension income of €20k.

    Poor BattleCorp, his income is €20k and his rent is €15k.

    BattleCorp is Fcuked.

    Seriously though, renting all your life is ok until you hit retirement age. Unless you were lucky enough to squirrel away a 'hape' of money into your pension and it performed well, you are absolutely screwed because you most likely won't be able to afford your rent. What then?

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx

    "Dogwhistling " is such a dopey term and is applied like snuff at a wake

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?

    No we don’t. Some people on the left do.

    you do some fierce generalising about “the left”.


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?

    Freedom of movement does include freedom of residence actually. What rules are you talking about , you’re low on detail.

    We managed without immigrants for most of history because the economy was in the toilet for most of our history. This is deluded stuff. The type of thinking that ended in Brexit in the UK, which is an unmitigated disaster.

    We need immigrants to fuel the economy. It’s a fact of life


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?

    That poster isn’t talking about illegal immigration. That’s clear. They are talking about curbing all immigration, including from within the EU.

    I’m not sure it’s racist. It’s definitely small minded and possibly bigoted.


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek

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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    The poster wasn't talking about illegal immigration. He was talking about all immigrants

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,560 ✭✭✭ FishOnABike

    The state with a decreasing tax base due to demographic changes will have to pick up the tab, either directly through social housing or indirectly through rent subsidies.

    In short if the state doesn't do something to avoid the situation now it's totally screwed in the not too distant future.

    If they do nothing now and nothing when the chickens come home to roost, increasingly desparate people will do increasingly desparate things. I hope it isn't allowed to come to that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air

    You didn't look very hard, here is a brief summary

    • In order to stay in another EU country for more than three months, EU citizens have to meet certain conditions depending on their status (e.g. worker, student, etc.) and they may also be asked to comply with administrative formalities

    More detail on the EU's website

    There are zero of these "administrative formalities" in place in Ireland.

    I disagree with your assertion that we need immigrants to "fuel the economy".

    Our economic growth has bene relatively constant since the early 1970s and we had minimal inward migration for the vast majority of that period.

    It is well established that generally speaking immigration benefits the immigrants at the expense of worker in the native population.

    Of the professions you mentioned earlier:

    Doctors - A huge proportion of our medical places in both undergraduate and post graduate entry go to non national students.

    The universities are particularly keen on non-EU entrants which attract much higher fee income. We have turned education into just another industry, largely to the detriment of society. These same non EU entrants have much lower academic entry requirements than native students which is detrimental to the quality of doctors that we produce.

    We then go on to import doctors from many 3rd world economies, to the detriment of their own populations as they are left short of doctors. These same countries are likely to have lower standards of training than ourselves (how many of our brightest and best are going to these countries to study for example?) This together with language and communication challenges means these doctors are on balance likely to be less effective than a home trained local doctor.

    Why don't we increase the number of doctors that we train to meet demand? There is no shortage of willing and qualified students that would like to study medicine.

    Nurses - I would put forward the case that when the full life cycle cost of bringing in a non-EU nurse is accounted for, we would likely be better off increasing wages to increase retention of our existing domestic nursing profession. Nursing is not particularly well paid and any incoming nurse is likely to require housing support of some description.

    Engineers - Wages have been almost static for the past 15 years or so, which aligns pretty closely with when inward migration really took off. Immigration has simply been used as a tool by which to keep wages depressed, the same as many other sectors of the economy.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Dunno if it is planned. Rich people and corporations run society though. Ireland has no real economic centre left party.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Or… he has an economic objection. The 4 pillars of the European Union are neoliberal concepts.

  • Whats the point of having immigrants here to "fuel the economy",if we/it cant provide living wage jobs and reasonably priced accomandation for them??

    We have 2nd highest rate of low-pay in the oecd,and a housing situation bordering on farcial.....i know several poles etc gone home,here with 10 plus years,married kids etc etc and the rate of pay-rent and cost of living made it better for em to move home

    These are people,who by every right should aspire to prosper here and gain home ownership/security of tenure that council houses would provide.....instead they are leaving,to be replaced by further waves of immigration,who will enjoy lower and lower qualitys of life here.......

    build the houses/jobs before talking about wanting immigramts to ram in 8-10 in a house on min wage to line pockets of landlords in the guise of fueling an economy....its a fundamentally failed idea

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus

    I don't know what they were motivated by; I haven't suggested that I do. Their action in voting for Brexit pandered to white racism; their motives for pandering to white racism are a separate matter.

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    If I had a missus and kids I’d 100% have a mortgage now.

    Im lucky enough to be living with friends in my late 20’s paying 350 for an en-suite room.

    I have no shame moving back to the parents if I need to. I earn 55K salary with extra 15k in bonus and overtime.

    I just don’t think a mortgage is for me as ties me down and wouldn’t like living on my own

    I might move to Europe or work or take a year off who knows

  • Registered Users Posts: 439 ✭✭ divillybit

    I agree with HerrKuehn here, people in their 20's starting into their working career need to be conscious that they will be looking to buy a place once they are in their 30's so they have a good 10 years to build up a substantial chunk of change. Once you get into the habit of saving as much as you can every month and investing it wisely it does grow into a substantial sum. I guess it depends on what people want to sacrifice though, if you decide to go travelling for a year in your 20's its a year of savings lost, which is perfectly acceptable of course.

    personally I didn't do any of that, opting instead to work and progress my career. It worked out well for me and despite being on the average industrial wage I was able to buy my new build house without having to borrow much at all from the bank, and i didn't borrow from any family members either.

    I do genuinely have sympathy for first time buyer's in the present market, particularly single people. I got lucky and bought at the bottom of the market when a recovery was happening in the economy after the 2008 housing crash. In the 6 years I have owned the house, it has effectively doubled (175k to 340k, Midlands town) in value based on what my next door neighbours house, who had bought at the same time as I did and has recently sold her house for.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    Poland is doing very well. I don't see why we should expect people to stay in this country. If they have worked and made their money, and now their home country is doing well, fair play if they want to go back.

    same as many Irish did over the years.

    That's the beauty of immigration, go, stay, whatever.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭ Peregrinus

    I don't see why. If the Brexit campaign urges a vote for Brexit to keep dark-skinned migrants out - and they did, pretty much, urge exactly that - then voting as urged is pandering to their racism. The voter may have done so for other reasons but, as I say, your reasons for pandering to white racism don't change the fact that you are pandering to white racism.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx

    Again, arbitrary interpretation- cherry picking party campaign information to reach a conclusion

    Could just as easy say those who voted for Michael D were pandering to third World dictators ( miggeldy spoke positively of Castro)

  • I think its entirely reasonable to expect people who have set up life here,have kids etc here to aspire to home ownership/get a council house for the lower paid immigrants

    Poland may be doing well,and fair play to em.....but they had families,good ties here and the state/economy here simply wasnt able to provide properly for em,and to my eyes thats utter failure and lads wanting immigrants to come here to live a lower quality of life,than what we aspire for ourselves,to 'fuel the economy' have their prioirties very very misguided imo

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]

    If they want to yes, nothing wrong with them coming here making lots of money and bringing it home, if they want to.

  • Noone said there is any issue with this??.....just they should be expected to have a lower standred of living than what we aspire for ourselves?

    Whats the whole point of this economic success/progress if it isnt improving peoples lives and requiring an influx of immigrants to live on lower quality of life to sustain/"fuel" it??

    We have a situation here,where low paid immigrants,many of whom id regard as mates,cant aspire to put down roots here/or hope to prosper for them and their kids.....its an utter waste of time perpetuating this

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭ Stovepipe

    Don't suppose you asked the parents if they'd be happy to have you back?!