you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss

Harryd225

There are two classes in society, the working class, who make up the majority of the population within society and must work to survive, and the capitalist class, a small minority who derives profit from employing the working class through private ownership of the means of production.

The PP boss is part of the capitalist class who own everything and want to exploit the people as much as they possibly can without making it too obvious.

super_furry

It's very simple really. In Dublin at least, it's cheaper to pay a mortgage than to pay rent on a similar property and at with a mortgage you are paying towards a very valuable asset.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422281#Comment_118422281

Not all parents hate their children.

Your a very negative person.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422390#Comment_118422390

That analysis isn't ancient or lacking in nuance at all

Harryd225

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118423075#Comment_118423075

Are you being serious?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118423219#Comment_118423219

I'm serious about mocking you're Das Kapital style slogan

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419871#Comment_118419871

Very different. Higgins didn't campaign for election on the basis of a pro-Castro platform. Whereas the Leavers did campaign on the basis of stoking fears about immigration.

Pussyhands

Sad to think the original post is 6 years old this year and things are worse than ever.

I was thinking of buying in 2017 (not a long term buy as I will move location) and thought things were overpriced then. That decision has probably cost me around 200k.

riclad

The problem is house prices keep rising , rents can go up in a few years, let's say google or some tech company opens offices in a city or area, most techies are on high wages. They will drive up the rent of most rental units in the area for everyone In 20 years when you retire who knows what rent will be probably alot higher than it is now. You could buy a 2 bed apartment get a room mate earn a bit from the rent to help pay off the mortgage . Landlords sell up or maybe get in bad health, and no longer wish to manage a rental unit. I don't think a mortgage ties you down as you could always rent out the property. You may wake up in 4 years and discover you can't even afford to buy a 1 bed apartment in the area where you work The reason most people try to buy property is they do not wish to be at the mercy of landlords for life

A woman rang up the Joe Duffy show 2 months ago. she says she has kids she can't even get on a list to view a rental property she has 5 weeks to move out she spends about 2k on rent every month she can't get a mortgage after paying rent esb bills etc she's in a catch 22 she can't save up for a Deposit to buy a house Unless you have a council flat there's no security of tenure in this country the problem is there's simply not enough housing being built to even catch with demand from 5 years ago. Alot of the rental property out there is mediocre Government policy seems to be designed to drive small landlords out of the market and make it easy for vulture funds to buy any property on the market

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118424745#Comment_118424745

They were actually fearful of immigration. Which hasn’t been great for unskilled workers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118423219#Comment_118423219

She’s a proletarian by 19C Marxist standards, except for the income she gets from her shares - and even then she’s a worker being exploited by herself.

im not saying she isn’t elite though, but 19C Marxism isn’t very useful.

Sunny Disposition

No one likes to link any problem to immigration these days, you'll get criticised for racism or told that you're like people who support Trump or Brexit. It's bizarre, but that happens regularly.

But anyway, mass immigration to Ireland since the Maastricht Treaty has been a major factor in the housing crisis. It'd be nice if it wasn't, but it is.

Immigrants are people, your economy might want workers at certain times, but you get people, who need to be housed, educated and need healthcare. And it is only right to point out that the vast, vast majority of the people who have come to Ireland are excellent people who make a positive contribution to society.

However it is still true that mass immigration has been a huge factor in the housing crisis. Anyone who says it isn't is not telling the truth. Ireland, relative to its population, has had hundreds of thousands of people arrive since 2004 and a long standing policy on immigration has resulted in a housing crisis. There are other factors for sure, but none as significant.

Unfortunately in Irish politics there isn't even the will to acknowledge that truth let alone suggest an alternative humane and functional immigration policy.

Stovepipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422565#Comment_118422565

Not in the slightest but parents DO like to get their space back and they resent becoming involuntary childminders/taxi drivers/food suppliers for the offspring that should be self sufficient. We have two daughters of college going age and they are home at present but they fully understand that they must move on and sort themselves out. We will help them in any way we can and will always be here as a back up. It has nothing to do with negativity or hate,just reality.

Stovepipe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118428359#Comment_118428359

the housing problem has driven out productive foreigners,many of whom have gone home with their skills and savings to live in affordable housing at home.they want to stay here but are priced out.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118428426#Comment_118428426

All thats left is Irish cute hoors who want to be paid loads for doing nothing / bossing foreigners around? This in turn means if you want someone to actually do something for you there's only a small pool of eejits left who are still doing actual work. Fierce amount of rent-seeking going on these days

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118428359#Comment_118428359

all they did was replace the hundreds of thousands who left in the previous 50 years

vriesmays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410926#Comment_118410926

Will you tell this to half of Dublin's South Circular Road.

dublinman1990

When I heard about the new report released about the cost of housing from the PBO on the news today. It has made me think that the housing situation in this country has made a extremely grim outlook look even worse for society than ever.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0113/1273467-parliamentary-budget-office-on-housing/

Both renters and potential home owners who live here are now faced with a potentially huge catastrophe when they are faced with buying or renting any form of accommodation to look after themselves and their families.

And the sort of of statistics that we are talking about here reported in the link above are going to disproportionately hit the young age groups a lot more when they get the opportunity try to save up money to buy a new home for themselves in the future.

It is going to become impossible for someone within this age group to actually get the chance to buy or rent a suitable form of accommodation here while these sort of statistics are written in front of their faces.

This new reality will enable young people with the increasing inevitably that they will have to emigrate to other countries to get a new place to live for themselves. If that cannot happen; they would have to continue live at home with their parents in the long term if they want to continue to work here if they cannot afford to rent a property in the long term or if they are in a job which cannot allow them to be able to leave their workplace.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118428359#Comment_118428359

It is indeed unfortunate that all existing contributory factors to the housing shortage can't be highlighted but that's the law of WOKE culture

You can't acknowledge certain truth or facts , hence why leading commentators on the housing situation like Marxist academic Rory Hearne never once mentions the increase in population since 2011 by way of significant inward immigration

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118428359#Comment_118428359

Emigration was at a higher rate than immigration between 2011 and 2014.

We've only actually seen immigration take over from 2015 and it's already peaked and looking to potentially be going back the other way.

Hardly the cause of a housing crisis when the numbers leaving and the numbers entering almost cancel each other out.

More reading on the stats for you here:

https://emn.ie/immigration-decreases-by-nearly-24-in-year-to-april-2021/

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473591#Comment_118473591

A lot of the people who left in the 2011-2014 period probably lived with family, so where they lived would still be occupied. Most people coming into the country wouldn't have that family support to rely on (although a few might) so it's not the same thing.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118476498#Comment_118476498

It still cancels out, those people 'living at home' would have been looking to move out - hence moving away. The homes they didn't move to here could be taken by those immigrating to Ireland instead.

From what I've seen with a lot of sub standard rentals for new immigrants, a lot are packed tightly into spaces with bunkbeds. You could argue that unit for unit, an Irish person would probably take up more space moving out than a new immigrant would moving in.

It's all speculation anyway and the only thing you can rely on are the actual numbers, which I've posted above. I really don't think this is another thing people can blame on immigration, as much as The Nationalist Party would like us to.

Amik

Some stats on renting vs buying. Looks like we pay almost the same for both.

https://www.comparethemarket.com.au/home-contents-insurance/renting-vs-buying-2021/

Billgirlylegs

Folks

FYI.

I retired recently. Income halved (or worse)

My rent is zero. Mortgage repaid since 2016.

Rental around me is €2000.00 ish per month.

Not much difference right enough.

dublinman1990

I heard some significant news from Focus Ireland today about the worsening rental crisis in this country. It appears the issue with paying the higher rents is set to continue as the charity is becoming alarmed that more tenants are now going to become homeless from their rental properties. The charity has said to the media today that more landlords are going into retirement or having significant tax issues while tenants are still trying to pay their rents to keep them on their lease agreements.

SF's Eoin O'Broin was talking about a motion to actually extend the grace period of tenancy agreements with landlords that took place during the pandemic to prevent the homeless figures from going 10k people.

O'Broin was suggesting to RTÉ today that the 10k homeless figures could be exceeded within 3 months. But I do have a feeling that more people could add to that figure much quicker if the pace of private landlords going out of the business altogether is going to accelerate much faster than ever before.

If the people who work in the private corporations here are seeing this problem become more apparent as time goes on. What more measures can they do to actually try to alleviate this potentially disastrous situation from getting worse.

riclad

Go to any shop , hotel, cafe, 90 per cent of the staff are non nationals, I.m not racist our economy needs skilled workers from the EU. The problem is we need 1000s of workers to build 30k housing units per year, to catch up or gen z will be stuck living at home or paying high rents for mediocre rental units in dublin only the top 14 per cent in income can buy a house

at least in America they have low cost trailer parks for people on low income to live in. The government needs to change the tax on small landlords eg people who have 2 or 3 tenants. We are facing rising inflation, high oil petrol prices supply chain shortages. I can see no sign of the housing situation improving at all

Every apartment block being built there's people objecting to it.

Anyone in the EU can move here if they want to. But I think we have reached the limit in that our present rental system cannot even provide units for the population we have now someone needs to draw a cartoon. With Ireland as a house with a sign outside saying No vacancys , full up. No more rooms left.

It's like the Christmas hospital trolley story, every 6 months focus says the homeless situation is getting worse .

I believe them, I'm not being sceptical.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473591#Comment_118473591

We're about to take in 200,000 people for an indefinite period of time?

whisky_galore

It's pretty fcuked up when you see young people seriously looking at living in vans and "tiny house" things.

Let's hope these Ukrainian women and children are handy with concrete blocks and plastering.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839292#Comment_118839292

So we need cheap labour so we can undercut people in proper wage paid jobs so we can get housing for more cheap migrant labour? Does anyone think the whole system is a ponzi scheme at this stage.

Meanwhile inflationary costs are rising due to more demand and so the process continues.

Murph85

God help young people. Pints in Dublin are now e7 in many local pubs etc and they are working for what e10.50 an hour ?

The cost of everything here is madness. Better off emigrating

riclad

We need skilled builders if we want to build 30k units per year i did not say they would be low wage workers but we are competing with EU countrys where rents are low cost of living is low compared with Ireland if I was in power I would form a new unit whose single purpose is to provide free land sites to any charity who will allow self build units and give land to habitat for humanity eg you spend 2 to 3 days a week building your own house for working people on say 20 to 30k there's a grand designs program about this houses designed to be made of basic materials easy to build for non experts in middle Eastern country's they can just import 10000 workers from Asia to build skyscrapers we don't have that option

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843966#Comment_118843966

So you want more immigrants to build houses for immigrants?. Isnt this the whole problem?

riclad

The point I'm making is we need 30k housing units built every year to keep up with the demand I doubt if the building industry we have now is ready to take on that task otherwise we face the future of rising rents rising house prices

It has happened in Japan inflation rising house prices equals low birth rate young people are not having children or getting married because housing is very expensive builders move around the EU depending on where the work is and where the wage rates are high

BattleCorp1

Guy on the radio reckons we need to continually hit 50k new builds for about a decade to catch up on demand. We won't even see half of that being built. Building is actually going to slow down due to the astronomical increase in the price of building materials.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/100066755#Comment_100066755

Here is the issue. Irish pensions are based on the assumption that you will no longer have to pay for your accommodation or dependents. Hence, a 1/3 reduction in disposable income is not an issue. However, if you factor in that the person may still have to pay rent when they receive a pension, it is catastrophic. In the absence of rent-controls, there is the untenable situation of people struggling to pay rent and also not having certainty of where they will live. Our inability to buy today contributes to the old age poverty of tomorrow. We are kicking a major problem down the road. We will start to see it germinate in about 20-25 years

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845330#Comment_118845330

Was just chatting about this at the weekend. What the feck is going to happen when all our people can't afford their rent anymore?

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845374#Comment_118845374

It is a terrifying prospect. Presumably, they will have to offer a rent subsidy. But given the current pension situation, if you take say a person on the median income (40k), when they retire, they will get 1,800 p/m. They will probably have little savings, given the extortionate price of living and their contribution towards rent. With this 1,800, they will have to pay electricity, internet, food, health and rent. If they lived all their lives in Dublin, they will probably no longer be able to afford it. So, in their 70s, they will be forced to move elsewhere. And then, it will probably be untenable to live alone. This brewing problem is going to be our generation’s nightmare!!!

Also, whether or not you agree with the Fair Deal scheme, there will be a lot of people from our generation who won’t have a cent to our name when it comes to nursing home time. What will the state do with us?

Ultimately, it is actually in the state’s benefit for people to own homes.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845374#Comment_118845374

Back in the 90's I was working in construction near San Francisco. One day a cement truck pulled up and an auld lad struggled to get down out of it. I went over to him and helped him down. While the lorry was doing its thing pumping cement, we got to chatting. Turns out he was almost 80 years of age. Me being young and stupid was pretty blunt and asked him what was he doing working at that age? Why wasn't he retired? His answer "If I retire, I can't pay my rent".

That's what is ahead of many of us.

jolivmmx

These figures are from the end of 2021. This is likely to be worse now.

The national average house price was €290,998and prices in the last three months of this year were 7.7% higher than the same period in 2020, according to the website's House Price Report. The average price for a house in Dublin in 2021 increased by 3.4% on last year to €405,259.

The average annual earnings for employees in Ireland is €40,283 per year or €3,356 per month (gross salary).

——————————————————

If you have 2 people (with no dependents) who earn the median salary, they can take out a mortgage of 280,000 max.

So bottom line, 2 ordinary people on the average wage cannot afford the average house in Ireland.

And for somebody alone, buying a houe is just not going to happen

We need to make house prices within the reach of people. Otherwise, who are the houses for?

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845421#Comment_118845421

We need to fight to make sure that this does not become a reality?

If we cannot buy the houses, then who is buying the houses and more importantly, who is benefiting from the extortionate rents?

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845554#Comment_118845554

No easy fix unfortunately.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845804#Comment_118845804

No. But we have to try. It will become an even worse problem if we leave it be.

We need to support further houses to be built. We need to make sure that these go to people who plan to live in them. We need to support people to save. I don’t have the answers. But we need to fix it

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845554#Comment_118845554

Institutional money. Financial corporations. Private equity firms.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845826#Comment_118845826

One part of the solution is to get the councils back building social housing. And do it as cheap as possible. Simple rectangle buildings that are easy to build will help keep the building costs down. This will stop the councils/other state supported housing agencies from outbidding private buyers.

But the above idea isn't paletable to many people as the view is that social housing estates aren't a good idea from an anti-social/stigma point of view.

jolivmmx

I was reading about the court case of the barrister who shot the man. He has 180 acres of land in Tallaght. There is so much land in this country that could be put to good use. We should try to build houses left, right and centre, as cheaply as possible

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845847#Comment_118845847

....again, this all leads back to financialisation of markets, it has catastrophically failed, but we havent truly accepted this yet, and our political institutions are still stuck in these beliefs and ideologies.....

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845892#Comment_118845892

The problem is that there is no incentive to create. The incentive is to buy up what is there, live off the rent generated and retain the capital investment when you sell it

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845891#Comment_118845891

It's not a coincidence that certain people are sitting on the landbanks that surround key areas of the city

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845904#Comment_118845904

this is exactly what this process is about, but our political institutions are stuck into thinking this is the best way of getting the job done, its clearly not, it just ultimately leads to monopolisation of markets, serious supply issues, and hyper inflated prices, this has happened in most parts of the world that have engaged in these approaches

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845924#Comment_118845924

Imagine how many houses could be built on 180 acres of land in Tallaght?