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you should just "GET OVER" ever owning a home says PP boss

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    This x100. There is close to zero legal security when you are renting in Ireland. It’s all down to how your landlord treats you.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    That is completely false , tenant protection in Ireland is extremely robust



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    the more we play this train wreck of a property market, the more both landlords and tenants will be exposed!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    financialisation of the whole process has completely failed, it has caused the price of property to sky rocket



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    In my 20s I built my own home entirely fro the ground up. I did all the work except the wiring so it was almost entirely materials that my mortgage is for.


    I couldn't do this now, I simply couldn't afford even the cost of materials


    Ultimately, my point is the cost of building a house is too high. If you build a house now, you are immediately in negative equity.

    Cost of site, materials and labour is greater than the value of the property.


    So providing "affordable" or council houses are to be delivered at an un sustainable cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    we ve become overly reliant on credit to achieve all of this, this approach has failed, we have to become more open to public methods of financing, in order to get the job done, but this wont be easy, but its the only way to do this



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    That's fine and we'll, but public has to be paid for ultimately. If its to become increasingly prohibitive for the private individual to build a house, it is worse for the state.


    The state can't build houses efficiently. The state can't manage most projects efficiently so I doubt something as large as a state run housing for all project will be any solution to the increasing costs



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    This is exactly why we need to hurry on with the next election and get Sinn Féin into power, I know a lot of people don't realise it yet and are stuck in their ways of believing that FF/FG are the only ones who will ever be capable of running Ireland but Sinn Féin are the best thing for this country.

    FF/FG belong to the same elitist attitudes and the same type of people as the PP boss in question, they all have this sort of feeling of royalty and a strongly capitalist attitude designed to make the top few percent of people richer and make the bottom 50% of people work even harder to make that happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    oh ffs, this bullsh1t!

    yes, public debt will have to be serviced by the public, which includes private sector entities such as private sector businesses, including corporations!

    private sector creditors, i.e. banks, must create profits from their credit creation methods, the state does not, it just needs to make sure the debts are serviced and serviceable in their entirety, i.e. no profits, just pay the damn debt! oh and the state has the ability to roll these debts over continuously, until fully serviced, sometimes this can be in excess of many decades, the same is not always true for private sector debts!

    the state builds houses just fine, many public houses are of high standard, but the state alone cannot build all thats required, and will require the private sector to do so!





  • Whether efficent or not...someone is gonna need to grasp the nettle and get on with a state building project.....waiting it out for private sector to do it has simply failed,and at this stage is never going to work



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    Bullshi1t to you, but reality to most.


    You're talking about state loans. Great. I've no problem, great idea. But that doesn't address the cost of building the house.


    You're trying to blame bank interest.


    You say the state can build houses just fine. Sure they can, but not at the same cost the private sector can. The state have not done such a cost effective number in the national children's hospital what makes you think they can do it with a housing scheme on the scale required


    If the state provide zero interest loans, they still have to be paid back, but 300 or 400k for someone on minimum wage isn't affordable



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    That's great rhetoric. But doesn't solve the problem of cost.





  • The problem of cost,is always decreasing....ie: its only dear,the day you spend it


    Your euro is worth alot less today,than it was last xmas,will be worth even less again next xmas....realistically its headed for spiralling inflation and almost zero germans/ecb can do to prevent it...the fact peoples (including me) pensions/savings are on brink of being wiped out....waiting worrying about efficentcy of the state vs private sector is going to moot in 3 to 5 years anyway


    (Possibility of europe entering sprialling food costs as russia puts squeeze on gas costs for fertilizer production is going to result in states needing to also provide additional food security/subsidies for their citizens)



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    Wrong , wreck a rental in the likes of Germany or attempt to disobey an eviction order for two years while withholding rent and you don't get to walk away with no consequences



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    the state may have a larger bargaining power than single entity developers, the state maybe able to negotiate for lower prices on materials than these developers, but again, it will need these developers to actually do the building

    the state also has the ability to borrow limited amounts from itself, but these financial institutions would need to be created in order to do so....

    rates is only one method of how private sector creditors profiteer, providing as much credit as possible to markets is their main method of gaining, we must remove some of this power from these sectors, and the only way to do that, is to become more reliant on public methods of funding.

    the nch is being conducted by private sector contractors! you d be naïve to think no one knew that it was originally under priced, but in order to undertake whats now required, the whole process will need to be as transparent as possible, before building commences, and strong conditions are gonna also have to be included such as 'no excess profits'! that wont be an easy one to get over the line!

    again, we ve no choice but to do this now, yes its very risky for the state, but thats where we re at, its become too dangerous now not to, its now having serious negative effects both economically and socially, again state loans can be rolled over indefinitely, until fully serviced!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭ Amadan Dubh


    Funny that the OP was in 2016; PayPal hasn't really aged well the last five years. Perhaps the "more of the same" attitude of the ceo ultimately caused PayPal to stagnate and lose ground in its market.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ lalababa


    I know lots of people in the countryside down through the years, that got the site from family members (small farmers usually). Built away themselves with the odd local blocklayer/carpenter working the odd day. The houses were built for what now seems like peanuts. Anyhow , my point is that houses need not cost what they are being built for or paid for nowadays.

    How to do this? Community partnerships/ building associations. Credit unions and building societies need to get together and form plans to deliver affordable (cheaper) houses to their members.

    Use as many clients/members in the process. Get an engineer/architect to come up with a low cost/easy build design. (Like the 25k house in irishverncular.com)

    Pool monies together to buy a site. (Eg. 2acre site for 100k for 25 houses near or next to village/town services) . That's 4k per site.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    What you say regarding bargaining power is true in theory but not in practice.. not by a long shot.


    State bodies pay well over the going rate for materials and services. I personally know this first hand and not anecdotally



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    That's true, but, if a house costs 400k to build and is only worth 325k no bank are going to touch you unless you have equity.


    Under the state loans idea, it still doesn't make sence to me.

    Labour costs were a massive elephant in to room nobody would touch- the state preferred to TRY tackle the easier target of site cost but its gone beyond that now, materials are simply unaffordable



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ AckwelFoley


    You're ideas aren't bad, but not in line with the Green agenda. The Green agenda don't want people living in one off low density dwellings.

    But certainly there is merit to what your saying. Not the entire solution, but one part perhaps

    You won't buy a 2 acre site that is zoned residential for 100k, but none the less, even if the site was free, the cost of the building itself is needing to be addressed



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    That’s nothing to do with protection for renters, that’s a lack of protection for landlords.


    The rental sector is poorly regulated for both sides. I’ve been on both sides of it in Ireland

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    The above situation exists as a result of lobbying by left wing activists who oppose eviction under any circumstance



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    No it doesn’t. It exists because it’s always been that way. Almost 100 years of Irish governments did nothing to regulate the rental sector. We’ve never had a left wing government.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    I said lobbying by left wing activists , the stripe of the cabinet ministers is irrelevant



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 19,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    I’m still not having it. We’ve had a mix of conservative and neo liberalist governments and you want to blame a lack of regulation on some generic left wing groups.


    Lack of regulation is part of the conservative and neo liberal economic plan, let the free market reign. If we ever had a left wing government Ireland might have the same protections for tenants and landlords you see in the rear of Europe.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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