Pro12 Final Build up thread: uppity westerners v their ladyboy brothers

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

Leinster came within a point in the Sportsground in awful conditions and in awful form while they nilled Connacht in the RDS in even worse conditions.

I think those are the head to heads that matter most. Although the starting teams for Leinster will be significantly different. I think it still demonstrates they have the measure of each other and it will be a close game. Leinster are favourites on experience both individually and collectively and that's probably right. Though I'm expecting it to be a nail biting game for both sets of fans.

Mrreliable

Adbrowne wrote: »

Why would connacht have an advantage in coaching over a team which finished above them in the regular season.

Lam has way more experience as a head coach and in relation to connacht this is his third(?) season out West. He has had a full pre season with almost his entire squad.

Cullen is in year one and it couldnt have been any more awkward with the RWC and 6n taking about 20 players away for huge chunks of time. He has also managed to take leinster to top the regular season table despite having to use 56 players which is a record, especially when you consider the players at the rwc only came back to leinster at the end of october. That says a lot about Cullens ability IMO.

I think there is no real advantage either way there. Both have done very good jobs in different circumstances and ways.

Despite 'Ireland Duty' Cullen using 56 Players only shows he has no continuity. He did use more or less same teams for last 2 matches and it has paid off. All coaches have to deal with players going on national duty. Only an excuse. Personally I would have major reservations about Cullens ability as a coach ! I think Leinster have been very erratic this season and that is down to coaching. We know the players have the ability. They have proven that.

sydthebeat

Mrreliable wrote: »

Despite 'Ireland Duty' Cullen using 56 Players only shows he has no continuity. He did use more or less same teams for last 2 matches and it has paid off. All coaches have to deal with players going on national duty. Only an excuse. Personally I would have major reservations about Cullens ability as a coach ! I think Leinster have been very erratic this season and that is down to coaching. We know the players have the ability. They have proven that.

leinsters performances, continuity issues accepted, have been immeasurably better than last year.

our defense has been excellent (apart from a couple of aberrations) and out attack has been a marked improvement on both of MOCs seasons... especially with jonny back at the helm.

while cullen hasnt been excellent, he certainly has been good enough to put the season down as an 'very good' already, and a Pro12 victory will have it marked as "excellent"

Adbrowne

Mrreliable wrote: »

Despite 'Ireland Duty' Cullen using 56 Players only shows he has no continuity. He did use more or less same teams for last 2 matches and it has paid off. All coaches have to deal with players going on national duty. Only an excuse. Personally I would have major reservations about Cullens ability as a coach ! I think Leinster have been very erratic this season and that is down to coaching. We know the players have the ability. They have proven that.

Im no expert, but I would imagine pre season is vitally important in team sports to get a huge chunk of work done without matches, recovery, travel and weekly gameplan work to limit the time. Leinster were without circa 20 players from the start of July until the end of october so when they came back the whole thing had to put together in a week leading to a game. Despite the lack of any continuity over the season Cullen led Leinster to top spot. That in itself is a decent achievement in my book and a lot of that is down to good coaching/management.

molloyjh

Mrreliable wrote: »

Despite 'Ireland Duty' Cullen using 56 Players only shows he has no continuity. He did use more or less same teams for last 2 matches and it has paid off. All coaches have to deal with players going on national duty. Only an excuse. Personally I would have major reservations about Cullens ability as a coach ! I think Leinster have been very erratic this season and that is down to coaching. We know the players have the ability. They have proven that.

Every team has to deal with players going on international duty. Very, very few teams have to deal with so many players going on national duty.

It isn't an excuse, it's a reality. Irish internationals got feck all time with the new coaching set-up in pre-season because of the RWC so settling into Leinster was always going to be difficult. Look at Glasgow who really struggled until they got players back in and some continuity together. And they had their internationals coming back into a familiar environment. Leinsters environment was new, totally new to Sexton in particular.

While it doesn't excuse all the bad we've seen this season, at the same time you can't ignore the impact it did have.

former total

Fair enough, the performances haven't been scintillating viewing, but this is a results-driven game. What results have we seen?

Top of the league, in the final after an emphatic semi-final win. A coach in his first season in the hot seat coping with huge numbers of absences and significant injuries. He's done a great job IMO.

More suited for the Leinster thread, obviously, but some people seem to need to have the bleedin' obvious pointed out.

d-gal

It's an interesting one. Yes Leinster are favorites but Connacht have been superb and have constantly come with big scalps taken this season.

Connacht have the biggest advantage in the second row and centres. Toner and Kearney have played ok this season but Muldowney and Dillane have been sensational - the two form locks of the pro12.
While Henshaw has only played ok this season Aki has been the player of the tournament. He's leinsters biggest fear. Teo is playing well and ringrose has showed sparks but has hardly set the world a light. Henshaw has the best experience of the 4 and Aki just shines in big matches.

If Buckley and White were fit I'd nearly give advantage Connacht in the pack but now without them Leinster have the advantage, their front row is far superior. Connacht advantage in the second row while it's fairly even in the backrow. Heaslip has the big match experience but Muldoon is huge for Connacht, he will want this more than anyone else on the pitch - this is his World Cup final.

Backline the form goes to Connacht but Sexton is the big turning point. If he's on form then advantage Leinster.
The worry is the Kearney brothers. One of the worst seasons for them and Rob has been especially average.

Can't wait for the match. Reckon Leinster to pip it due to their organsiation and ability to shut down attacking teams at crucial stages. But if they let the Connacht backline any bit of momentum then they are in serious trouble. Let's hope for clear skies and fast entertaining rugby. Both teams well deserved to be in the final.

Utopia Parkway

I think Leinster will try and win this in the set-piece (especially in the scrum) and up front where they might fancy their chances of strangling Connacht much like they did Ulster. Buckley is a huge loss for Connacht up front. White to a lesser extent but both being out means that Rodney Ah You will eventually get on the pitch which is not good news for Connacht. Loughney is also vulnerable I feel and he has to start the game now. Last thing Leinster will want to do is for the game to become loose and open. Connacht have been playing that game all season and do it better than Leinster at this stage.

Johnny Farango

former total wrote: »

Fair enough, the performances haven't been scintillating viewing, but this is a results-driven game. What results have we seen?

Top of the league, in the final after an emphatic semi-final win. A coach in his first season in the hot seat coping with huge numbers of absences and significant injuries. He's done a great job IMO.

More suited for the Leinster thread, obviously, but some people seem to need to have the bleedin' obvious pointed out.

Did Leinster play in Europe this season? They mustn't have, Leinster fans seem to not mention it

Johnny Farango

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Did Leinster play in Europe this season? They mustn't have, Leinster fans seem to not mention it

I tried remembering what happened in the RDS against Wasps but I seem to have blacked-out

former total

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Did Leinster play in Europe this season? They mustn't have, Leinster fans seem to not mention it

There's no need. You give it 30 seconds and some miserable auld begrudger will come along to bring it up, saves me the hassle. Cheers Johnny.

b.gud

Deleted User wrote: »

I tried remembering what happened in the RDS against Wasps but I seem to have blacked-out

If you can't remember it, then it never happened. Like when I try to remember what happened in the Aviva in November 2013.

molloyjh

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Did Leinster play in Europe this season? They mustn't have, Leinster fans seem to not mention it

Europe was the big black mark for Leinster this season, but in truth they were never getting out of their pool. Toulon, Wasps and Bath were always going to be hard work no matter what. But Leinsters internationals were only back a week before the pool stages kicked off and they simply hadn't any time to integrate into the new set-up. The 2 games against Wasps were the low points, but if not for the scrum issues they would have beaten Bath away and they did beat them at home with the young lads. Against Toulon away they lost, but what else would you expect really. At home they were competitive until the benches came into it. Wasps away was pretty unforgivable IMO, despite the fact that it was a dead rubber, but again we were competitive until Sexton went off and Marsh had to step in.

All in all they should have one better in Europe in some ways, but they were never getting out of their pool. They couldn't have done much better in the league (topped it and are in the final). Given the context FT mentioned I think that has to be viewed positively. It wasn't all perfect and there were issues, but all in all Leo has done more than enough to warrant a second season.

Johnny Farango

former total wrote: »

There's no need. You give it 30 seconds and some miserable auld begrudger will come along to bring it up, saves me the hassle. Cheers Johnny.

Not miserable about it at all! :D

Billysays no

thomond2006 wrote: »

Exactly. Who would want to support evil Dublin 4 people like Jamie Heaslip? :pac:

or maybe, just maybe its not a d4 thing but instead folks living a dream. and as I look at this season I think what we have done has been simply immense. Win or lose against Leinster it doesn't matter much. At some point a team will lose. It will not take away from what has been achieved. This is not to say I expect Connacht to lose, I simply don't. But if they did, it can't take away from an incredible season. The talk of all the celebrations meaning we will be on a downer the following week. Get a grip. We've been celebrating nearly every game this year. One piece of history has been followed by another piece of history and then another. And now we have another piece of history in front of us. Win it or not we will celebrate our team and our team will celebrate with us. So we won't lose this weekend but we may add that other piece of history. Silverware is a piece of silverware. What Connacht has achieved this season will live a lot longer in the hearts than a piece of silverware.

swiwi_

My 2c.

Leinster will win. And relatively comfortably.

Sexton's kicking out of hand was sublime vs Ulster. And Leinster's defence is the best in the league.

So Connacht will need to run the ball out of their own half all day against the best defence in the league, and with turnovers resulting in them being pinned back again by Sexton's kicking.

In saying that, I've been wrong about Connacht a fair bit this season, and you can argue all you want about other aspects of back 3 play, but for being easy on the eye the Connacht back 3 is more exciting to watch then the Leinster back 3.

Buckley is a big loss for Connacht, although maybe I'm missing something, because there hasn't been sniff of an Irish call up for him at any point this season.

connemara man

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 136th competition game, 4th Final)
Assistant Referees: Ian Davies, Ben Whitehouse (WRU)
Officials: 4 Lloyd Linton; 5 Bob Nevins; 6 Tom Mc Nicol (all SRU)
Timekeeper; Paul Cyphus (SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Maurizio Vancini (FIR)
TMO: Jon Mason (WRU)

Billysays no

connemara man wrote: »

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 136th competition game, 4th Final)
Assistant Referees: Ian Davies, Ben Whitehouse (WRU)
Officials: 4 Lloyd Linton; 5 Bob Nevins; 6 Tom Mc Nicol (all SRU)
Timekeeper; Paul Cyphus (SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Maurizio Vancini (FIR)
TMO: Jon Mason (WRU)

I like Nigel Owens. No fecking around. Another advantage Connacht. Pretty much clinches it in my book :-). I had forgot to suggest that the ref could be an advantage

connachta

Both teams clear to go (last Connacht injury update)

Will be Huuuuuuuuge. Muldowney, Dillane, Heenan, born-again McKeon, will make damage

freyners

swiwi_ wrote: »

My 2c.

Leinster will win. And relatively comfortably.

Sexton's kicking out of hand was sublime vs Ulster. And Leinster's defence is the best in the league.

So Connacht will need to run the ball out of their own half all day against the best defence in the league, and with turnovers resulting in them being pinned back again by Sexton's kicking.

In saying that, I've been wrong about Connacht a fair bit this season, and you can argue all you want about other aspects of back 3 play, but for being easy on the eye the Connacht back 3 is more exciting to watch then the Leinster back 3.

Buckley is a big loss for Connacht, although maybe I'm missing something, because there hasn't been sniff of an Irish call up for him at any point this season.

Mainly because he has the most ill-timed injuries possible imo. After Munster away, right when the irish squad was being finalised, and now when the tour to Sa is coming up.

RichieRich89

Am I the only one who wasn't particularly impressed with what Leinster did with the ball on Friday? Ringrose's involvement for Heaslip's try was high-class stuff, and Nacewa finished his try well, but there was hardly any inventive, flowing rugby on show from the home side. The overall impression I got was that they just out-muscled Ulster. It was a bit like watching Wales, or Munster c. 2006. It was effective but I didn't see much to admire in it.

The defence was top notch, though. Kurt McQuilkin has been a great re-addition

connachta

Ah You wasn't cited within 48hours, I guess he's good to go? Mixed bad and ok recently, but still the best solution we have.

Yeah_Right

swiwi_ wrote: »

Buckley is a big loss for Connacht, although maybe I'm missing something, because there hasn't been sniff of an Irish call up for him at any point this season.

Hasn't had a sniff because he's not an international prop. Good Pro 12 player but not up to test level.

Billysays no

connachta wrote: »

Ah You wasn't cited within 48hours, I guess he's good to go? Mixed bad and ok recently, but still the best solution we have.

We don't have what Leinster have. But then Leinster don't have what we have. An absolute desire. If we lose we end up hugely proud. If Leinster lose they are disappointed. Its such a different mentality. If we win its just something more special. If Leinster wins its just another piece of silverware. It means nothing. So we can't lose. One thing is we will all be there to back our team and we will love it win or lose

typhoony

attack out wide like Argentina did and expose the Kearnashians, hit ringrose with our big ball carriers, and try to avoid it becoming a set piece game which no doubt sexton will try to ochestrate.

ClanofLams

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Hasn't had a sniff because he's not an international prop. Good Pro 12 player but not up to test level.

On what basis have you reached that conclusion exactly?

Adbrowne

Billysays no wrote: »

We don't have what Leinster have. But then Leinster don't have what we have. An absolute desire.

that is absolute nonsense. Do you really think the leinster players who have been the best defence in the pro12 all season have no desire to win? Like honestly?

typhoony

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Hasn't had a sniff because he's not an international prop. Good Pro 12 player but not up to test level.

Buckley made the Guinnes pro 12 dream team for 2015/16 competing against quite a few international props across all the teams in the pro12.

is he as good as McGrath, probably not, but he's clearly ahead of the rest as 2nd best looshead in the country

MadYaker

Billysays no wrote: »

We don't have what Leinster have. But then Leinster don't have what we have. An absolute desire. If we lose we end up hugely proud. If Leinster lose they are disappointed. Its such a different mentality. If we win its just something more special. If Leinster wins its just another piece of silverware. It means nothing. So we can't lose. One thing is we will all be there to back our team and we will love it win or lose

Jesus, rose tinted glasses or what!?

If we lose I'll be gutted and so will the players.

typhoony

MadYaker wrote: »

Jesus, rose tinted glasses or what!?

If we lose I'll be gutted and so will the players.

you'll have gotten over it by sunday, it will take me all summer to recover