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Connacht vs Munster, Sat 16th April 19.15, Sportsground. Sky Sports 5/TG4

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    #482
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    The only one digging is you. It would have cost Munster to withdraw the 3rd year option. If its not relevant, why state that the contract is 2 years plus option on 3rd in the first place.

    Its a fact that Leinster (which would be regarded as a more attractive option than Munster), did not receive any applicants to replace MOC and Leinster were lucky they had Leo & Girvan to fall back on.

    They didn't receive ANY applicants? Nope.
    jm08 wrote: »
    You missed the bit in bold.

    No. It was a mutual option. It's a pretty common structure.


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    #483
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,459 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Why would ANY club give a rookie coach a contract in which he has sole control in whether he stays for a third year?

    That actually makes no sense whatsoever. None. It would be the dumbest clause ever concocted.

    Foley is staying for a third year because Munster agreed to it. Not in 2014, but this season.


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    #484
    Journeyman_1
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Journeyman_1


    The point of an option is to have the ability to extend without having to renegotiate terms.


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    #485
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    awec wrote: »
    Why would ANY club give a rookie coach a contract in which he has sole control in whether he stays for a third year?

    That actually makes no sense whatsoever. None. It would be the dumbest clause ever concocted.

    Foley is staying for a third year because Munster agreed to it. Not in 2014, but this season.

    The mental gymnastics necessary to believe such a scenario is true, is remarkable.


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    #486
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭kuang1


    awec wrote: »
    Foley is staying for a third year because Munster agreed to it. Not in 2014, but this season.

    Yes this is true.
    Purely from memory, the club made the offer last November (ish) and Foley delayed signing it up until last month.

    (Which is laughable as he had stated around Christmas time that he was delaying signing it until he himself was sure that he was the right man for the job or some such drivel.)


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    #487
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    awec wrote: »
    Why would ANY club give a rookie coach a contract in which he has sole control in whether he stays for a third year?

    That actually makes no sense whatsoever. None. It would be the dumbest clause ever concocted.

    Foley is staying for a third year because Munster agreed to it. Not in 2014, but this season.

    Anthony had an option on his contract and has been offered an option,” Fitzgerald said on January 12. “He specifically asked that it be parked, as he wanted to concentrate on team performance and he’s not in any rush at the present moment to do that. We’re quite happy at the moment to let it be as it is. The most important thing is team performance.

    That reads to me like he had an option already.

    Foley isn't a rookie coach. My understanding is that if Munster did not offer him the 3rd year, he would be entitled to compensation.

    Anyway, I don't know why you are arguing this point considering that Munster would not be the most attractive job for anyone good to risk their reputations on.


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    #488
    kearnsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3 ✭kearnsy


    Journeyman_1 wrote: »
    The point of an option is to have the ability to extend without having to renegotiate terms.

    or to terminate a contract without having to buy it out?


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    #489
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    awec wrote: »
    It is costing Munster right now, you are awful.

    Leinster got rid of MOC late which didn't help with applicants, Munster should have told Foley there was no extension and been looking for replacements 3 or 4 months ago. It's not as if the poor showings are a recent thing.

    And who would want the job? A team in transition who are still expected to be contesting finals having lost a couple of world class players with huge IRFU restrictions on who they can recruit?

    I think life might be a bit easier in Japan!


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    #490
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    And who would want the job? A team in transition who are still expected to be contesting finals having lost a couple of world class players with huge IRFU restrictions on who they can recruit?

    I think life might be a bit easier in Japan!

    There's alway R.J.R O'Gara!


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    #491
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    There's alway R.J.R O'Gara!

    Yes, I wonder ... a choice between Dan Carter's coach or Ian Keatley/Johnny Holland.

    ROG is far too smart to come back to Ireland where he would be on a hiding to nothing.


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    #492
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Yes, I wonder ... a choice between Dan Carter's coach or Ian Keatley/Johnny Holland.

    ROG is far too smart to come back to Ireland where he would be on a hiding to nothing.

    I would hope he's a little bit more optimistic about the potential of Munster rugby than you are...


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    #493
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jm08 wrote: »
    Yes, I wonder ... a choice between Dan Carter's coach or Ian Keatley/Johnny Holland.

    ROG is far too smart to come back to Ireland where he would be on a hiding to nothing.

    Is ROG not more than just a kicking coach at Racing? I see the point your making but I think he does more than just work with 10's.


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    #494
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I would hope he's a little bit more optimistic about the potential of Munster rugby than you are...

    I am optimistic, but I don't expect instant success. Pat Lam has been given support to develop Connacht with little or no pressure on them to actually succeed. Ulster gets away with under achievement, but Leinster or Munster do not.


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    #495
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Is ROG not more than just a kicking coach at Racing? I see the point your making but I think he does more than just work with 10's.

    He is defence and skills. And my point is the standard of player he is working with.


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    #496
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,459 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jm08 wrote: »
    I am optimistic, but I don't expect instant success. Pat Lam has been given support to develop Connacht with little or no pressure on them to actually succeed. Ulster gets away with under achievement, but Leinster or Munster do not.

    Ha, I think you're being a bit quick to try and throw your lot in with Leinster here.

    Munster do clearly get away with under achievement, you just extended the contract of the coach who is presiding over what must be the worst season in pro rugby for your club.

    There is a million miles between Leinster and Munster right now in virtually every facet of the sport.


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    #497
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    jm08 wrote: »
    Well feic me, you've just had a crushing loss and you are asked questions when you say what you think. Would you prefer if they said nothing?

    Oh don't get me wrong, I love it when a coach speaks his mind, just my own selfish reasons though.

    As a fan I'd be pissed because he's making excuses and accusing refs of being biased towards players and using the media to suggest refs.


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    #498
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jm08 wrote: »
    He is defence and skills. And my point is the standard of player he is working with.

    Surely the test of a good coach is how much he can achieve with "less talent".

    Look at Pat Lam and Connacht. ROG could be Munster's Pat Lam.


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    #499
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Surely the test of a good coach is how much he can achieve with "less talent".

    Look at Pat Lam and Connacht. ROG could be Munster's Pat Lam.

    Having spent 15 years or so under massive pressure, I'd imagine ROG is enjoying what he is doing now. He probably also wants to make his mistakes outside the Irish fishbowl. Anyway, ROG has less experience now than Foley had when he was appointed Munster head coach.

    Pat Lam failed with the Blues, he has no pressure on him for Connacht to perform. If Munster lost that game v. Grenoble last week in the manner that Connacht lost it, Foley would have got huge criticism. Everyone will think Connacht is great if they make the final of the PRO12. Everyone has forgotten that Munster made them last year.


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    #500
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    .ak wrote: »
    Oh don't get me wrong, I love it when a coach speaks his mind, just my own selfish reasons though.

    As a fan I'd be pissed because he's making excuses and accusing refs of being biased towards players and using the media to suggest refs.

    Well, its what he thinks. Pretty much everyone is critical of the inconsistencies of the refereeing. Rob Penney gave them both barrels on a few occasions. Cheika usually lay into them as well.


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    #501
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    jm08 wrote: »
    Well, its what he thinks. Pretty much everyone is critical of the inconsistencies of the refereeing. Rob Penney gave them both barrels on a few occasions. Cheika usually lay into them as well.

    Doesn't make it right.

    Accusing a ref of biased against a particular player won't do foley any favours, and frankly it's probably deserving of a fine.


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    #502
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    .ak wrote: »
    Doesn't make it right.

    Accusing a ref of biased against a particular player won't do foley any favours, and frankly it's probably deserving of a fine.

    Any favours with who? Munster have complained about refs before.

    Anthony Foley: Ref watchdog supported Munster complaints ‘100%’


    Indeed, after yesterday’s squad session at UL, he focused his attentions on an increasing level of frustration with refereeing standards in the Pro12.

    He has made his views known about Welsh officials Leighton Hodges and Ben Whitehouse to the competition’s refereeing commissioner Ed Morrison and received a positive response.


    “We did get answers back on Leighton Hodges after the Ospreys game,” said Foley. “Yes, they were in our favour 100%. Every point we made, Ed Morrison agreed with. I don’t know if there are implications for him [Hodges]. That’s something you’d have to ask somebody else. The answers we get back are no good to us because the game is over and the points are gone elsewhere.


    “I think it was 15 issues we raised after the Ospreys game although there were three from another.


    “I want a bit of consistency about what’s happening to us around certain areas and they agree. It is frustrating and there were things from the weekend as well that we question. It’s hard when you watch a game from some of the angles. I do appreciate that the refs have one go at it but you’d like some of the 70/30s. We’ll just see what’s going to be done and how it will be handled.”


    Doubtless, some will regard Foley’s words as sour grapes but he is clearly willing and strong enough to take that on the chin and get on with the job.
    “If we were playing poorly, I would say yes, we are in crisis but that is not the case,” he insisted.


    “We’re creating a lot of opportunities. You go back to the Ospreys game when we didn’t get a penalty shot at goal and against Glasgow when we had one. In terms of where we are to get points at the moment, it has to be through tries.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/anthony-foley-ref-watchdog-supported-munster-complaints-100-383725.html


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    #503
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    .ak wrote: »
    Doesn't make it right.

    Accusing a ref of biased against a particular player won't do foley any favours, and frankly it's probably deserving of a fine.

    Christ, this post stinks worse than last nights game


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    #504
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    Christ, this post stinks worse than last nights game

    Care to elaborate?

    Haven't seen the game but I heard it was a great game, no?


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    #505
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Actually you are dead right jm08, Foley is a wonderful coach being ruthlessly targeted by a large scale refereeing conspiracy.

    Is that what you want to hear?


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    #506
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    jm08 wrote: »
    Any favours with who? Munster have complained about refs before.

    Anthony Foley: Ref watchdog supported Munster complaints ‘100%’





    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/anthony-foley-ref-watchdog-supported-munster-complaints-100-383725.html

    Complaining about an incident is one thing. Foley is suggesting bias against a particular player, that's calling the ref's professionalism into it, he isn't saying he's made a mistake, he's clearly calling him a cheat, but doing so by paraphrasing to protest himself. It's not great tbh.


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    #507
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    .ak wrote: »
    Care to elaborate?

    Haven't seen the game but I heard it was a great game, no?

    I don't think anybody called it a great game
    A great Connacht performance, yes, but not a great game, no sir, nor even close


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    #508
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    .ak wrote: »
    Complaining about an incident is one thing. Foley is suggesting bias against a particular player, that's calling the ref's professionalism into it, he isn't saying he's made a mistake, he's clearly calling him a cheat, but doing so by paraphrasing to protest himself. It's not great tbh.

    Now you're just putting words in his mouth, give it up,


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    #509
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    I don't think anybody called it a great game
    A great Connacht performance, yes, but not a great game, no sir, nor even close

    I thought it was really good, as much as I didn't enjoy the result. Great tries from both sides. Great atmosphere coming across on TV. What more do you want?


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    #510
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    I don't think anybody called it a great game
    A great Connacht performance, yes, but not a great game, no sir, nor even close

    I've heard plenty of people call it a great game. Some of the guys I chat to about games said its defo worth a watch, one of the best pro12 games in a while... Certainly not a stinker anyway.


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    #511
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    Now you're just putting words in his mouth, give it up,

    Well no, I'm not. If you want to debate the point, fine, go for it, but the one liners and accusations isn't really a discussion, is it?


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