Connacht vs Munster, Sat 16th April 19.15, Sportsground. Sky Sports 5/TG4

former total

Was there any confirmation of Bealham's broken jaw?

The better team won, no doubt, but it wasn't all one way traffic. Munster were 14-6 up after 20 minutes, playing most of the rugby, and a better team might not have let Connacht back into it quote so easily. Had Cronin not been (rightly) carded, it could have been very different.

But credit to Connacht, they punished Munster pretty ruthlessly and even when Munster were back to 15 they didn't look like they had any real ideas.

Foley's comments about the ref are absolutely shameful. He's doing himself no favours at all and it just draws more attention to the fact that he doesn't seem to have any ideas about how to turn things around.

If Aki is out for a few weeks, then that's going to be a massive blow. What a signing.

errlloyd

I actually think good recruitment does it a disservice. Guys like aki and heenan are good recruits. But Niyi, Carty and Dillane were scouted and nurtured. Their ability to get young guys up to standard quickly is impressive

jm08

former total wrote: »

Foley's comments about the ref are absolutely shameful. He's doing himself no favours at all and it just draws more attention to the fact that he doesn't seem to have any ideas about how to turn things around.

This is what Foley said about the ref:

“It was a key area of interpretation,” said Foley. “We obviously have the value of a replay, but it just seems that it’s two games away from home that Jamesie has been yellow-carded by Ben, so maybe that’s something to look at in the future.”

Asked to clarify that he felt the yellow card was harsh, Foley said:

“It was ridiculously so, it should have been our penalty. It’s not a case of being harsh, you could go through it all, but that’s life.”

I can't see anything to be ashamed about in that.

jm08

errlloyd wrote: »

I actually think good recruitment does it a disservice. Guys like aki and heenan are good recruits. But Niyi, Carty and Dillane were scouted and nurtured. Their ability to get young guys up to standard quickly is impressive

Dillane was offered a place in Munster's sub academy (having played Munster underage), so its not like he was an unknown.

The offer he got from Connacht was better than the offer Munster could give him.

freyners

former total wrote:

Was there any confirmation of Bealham's broken jaw?

Dislocated I believe

Mahatma Geansai

errlloyd wrote: »

I actually think good recruitment does it a disservice. Guys like aki and heenan are good recruits. But Niyi, Carty and Dillane were scouted and nurtured. Their ability to get young guys up to standard quickly is impressive

Dillane was poached by offering a college place for himself and his brother to get them to relocate. There are no two ways about that.

Connacht's recruitment has been very impressive though. Aki, especially, has been a fantastic buy. Connacht took a big risk by significantly out-bidding Munster and Leinster for his services, but it has payed off hugely. Lam is a much better coach than anyone at any of the other provinces too.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

This is what Foley said about the ref:



Asked to clarify that he felt the yellow card was harsh, Foley said:




I can't see anything to be ashamed about in that.

The problem is that when asked what went wrong he said

"“It’s hard to figure out what was going on, one thing led to another. A yellow card led to another yellow card, which led to a penalty try."

He just immediately jumps to that and sounds totally unaware of what else was going wrong, despite the fact Munster had the same number of people on the pitch for the majority of the game and were still outplayed.

Munster would be much better suited if their coaching staff worried about the things that were under their control.

ionadnapokot

freyners wrote: »

Dislocated I believe

Yikes. Is that official?
he looked to be smiling at the end of the game tho

irishbucsfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Yikes. Is that official?
he looked to be smiling at the end of the game tho

It's all he can do now, poor fellah

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The problem is that when asked what went wrong he said

He just immediately jumps to that and sounds totally unaware of what else was going wrong, despite the fact Munster had the same number of people on the pitch for the majority of the game and were still outplayed.

Munster would be much better suited if their coaching staff worried about the things that were under their control.

I was responding to these comments:

Foley's comments about the ref are absolutely shameful.

I don't see anything shameful in those comments.


Here is the full quote:

“It’s hard to figure out what was going on,” said Foley post-match in Galway. “One thing led to another. A yellow card led to another yellow card, which led to a penalty try.

I’m surprised there wasn’t another yellow card, but that 10 minutes before half time and the 10 minutes after half time where we couldn’t peg them back were probably the crucial moments of the game.”

kuang1

jm08 wrote: »

I was responding to these comments:



I don't see anything shameful in those comments.


Here is the full quote:

I'm a munster fan.
I cringe every time Foley opens his gob. And have done since he's taken charge. The number of times this season where his post-match interviews have referred to refereeing decisions is farcical.

Zzippy put it perfectly when saying that "Munster with all their talents add up to less than the sum of the parts".

Dark days ahead for us I fear.

Well done Connacht. A joy to watch ye play in fairness.

jm08

kuang1 wrote: »

I'm a munster fan.
I cringe every time Foley opens his gob. And have done since he's taken charge. The number of times this season where his post-match interviews have referred to refereeing decisions is farcical.

Zzippy put it perfectly when saying that "Munster with all their talents add up to less than the sum of the parts".

Dark days ahead for us I fear.

Well done Connacht. A joy to watch ye play in fairness.

He gets asked questions, he answers them. All coaches are asked about refeering decisions. Pat Lam has got into plenty of trouble over comments he has made about refs.

The Munster coaches have a huge handicap (which they never complain about or use as an excuse) and that is two training centres which is completely unique in any sport in the world.

Key partnerships train separately - for instance, J Holland is in Cork, Murray is in Limerick. Saili is in Limerick, Scannell is in Cork.

Neil3030

Connacht brought in a host of kiwi coaches, and it really shows.

Munster take "technical advice" from Mick O'Driscoll, and it really shows.

jm08

Neil3030 wrote: »

Connacht brought in a host of kiwi coaches, and it really shows.

Munster take "technical advice" from Mick O'Driscoll, and it really shows.

Munster have had plenty of kiwi coaches (Jason Holland, Simon Mannix, Rob Penney).

In fairness to Mick O'Driscoll, he was a very good lineout operator.

kuang1

jm08 wrote: »

He gets asked questions, he answers them. All coaches are asked about refeering decisions. Pat Lam has got into plenty of trouble over comments he has made about refs.

The Munster coaches have a huge handicap (which they never complain about or use as an excuse) and that is two training centres which is completely unique in any sport in the world.

Key partnerships train separately - for instance, J Holland is in Cork, Murray is in Limerick. Saili is in Limerick, Scannell is in Cork.

Fook me.

So how come we managed to win 2 Heineken cups then? (Given this tremendous, unique handicap that we have to clamber over and no other team has to)

Seriously jm08, are you happy with our coach? Do you think we're operating at optimum?

On paper, the squad we have isn't bad at all. Not good enough to compete at a European level granted. But 7th in the pro12?
Jesus h fooking Christ.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

This is what Foley said about the ref:



Asked to clarify that he felt the yellow card was harsh, Foley said:



I can't see anything to be ashamed about in that.

He's borderline accusing Ben of being partial to a player. That's fairly damning.

thomond2006

Foley could just avoid and dodge the question. I'm sick of reading quotes about referees. At this stage I don't care how valid they are.

OldRio

Great game of rugby last night. I watch a lot of the Pro12 on the TV. The standard has been remarkably average on the whole. Many of a 'Meh' game.
Yet when I watch Connacht I remind myself how much I love the game.

It gives me no pleasure at all in watching the car crash that is Munster. Such a proud team with a few great players play such poor Rugby.
Serious questions should be asked by all.

jm08

kuang1 wrote: »

Fook me.

So how come we managed to win 2 Heineken cups then? (Given this tremendous, unique handicap that we have to clamber over and no other team has to)

Seriously jm08, are you happy with our coach? Do you think we're operating at optimum?

On paper, the squad we have isn't bad at all. Not good enough to compete at a European level granted. But 7th in the pro12?
Jesus h fooking Christ.

Munster won 2 Heineken Cup (and it took a bit of time) with an international class pack with a couple of world class players (Flannery, POC, Wally) with an international half back pairing running the show. We now have 4 international class players in the entire team.

I don't think Munster are playing well and Munster have had major problems in a couple of positions - I expect moving all training to Limerick will result in a big improvement.

Just for the record, in the 12-13 season, Munster were 6th in the Pro12 with 54 points (Munster is 53 now, with two games to go). Just maybe the league has got a bit more competitive.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

He's borderline accusing Ben of being partial to a player. That's fairly damning.

“It was a key area of interpretation,” said Foley. “We obviously have the value of a replay, but it just seems that it’s two games away from home that Jamesie has been yellow-carded by Ben, so maybe that’s something to look at in the future.”

I don't know how you get that meaning from that. He says its something Munster have to work on.

thomond2006

In 12-13 Munster got to the semi-final of Europe.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Foley could just avoid and dodge the question. I'm sick of reading quotes about referees. At this stage I don't care how valid they are.

How can they avoid direct questions? Personally, I like to hear what they think of some of the decisions.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

How can they avoid direct questions? Personally, I like to hear what they think of some of the decisions.

"It's not for me to say. The referee has a job to do".

Moaning after most games is frustrating to read.

Interested Observer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Foley could just avoid and dodge the question. I'm sick of reading quotes about referees. At this stage I don't care how valid they are.

That must be half a dozen times now this season. Trying to shift the blame to refs makes him look increasingly more desperate.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

In 12-13 Munster got to the semi-final of Europe.

Munster still didn't do too well in the league. Getting to a HCup semi had an awful lot to do with ROG & POC still playing and a fit Peter O'Mahony.

kuang1

jm08 wrote: »

Munster won 2 Heineken Cup (and it took a bit of time) with an international class pack with a couple of world class players (Flannery, POC, Wally) with an international half back pairing running the show. We now have 4 international class players in the entire team.

I don't think Munster are playing well and Munster have had major problems in a couple of positions - I expect moving all training to Limerick will result in a big improvement.

Just for the record, in the 12-13 season, Munster were 6th in the Pro12 with 54 points (Munster is 53 now, with two games to go). Just maybe the league has got a bit more competitive.

Thanks for replying and I agree with what you've said to a point. (I'm always weary when people use isolated examples to bolster an argument)

But straight up...you think Foley is the man to propel Munster rugby forward?
I'm well aware that the guy loves Munster and is committed whole heartedly to the cause, I'm now entirely convinced, 2 seasons in, that he is pure and simply inept.

I've made this comparison before but I'll make it again: it's a replica of when Staunton managed the Irish soccer team. He wasn't capable of doing the job and lacked the wisdom to not put himself forward for the position. Then refused to budge when it became obvious he was in over his depth.

What's Staunton doing these days?

Anyone?

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

"It's not for me to say. The referee has a job to do".

Moaning after most games is frustrating to read.

I'd say its not half as bad dealing with poor decisions. Just for the record, this is what Rob Penney had to say about the refs.

Penney criticises Rolland and Northern Hemisphere refereeing

Problem with officiating is so deep rooted it’s having impact on players' livelihoods

Wed, Apr 2, 2014, 01:00
Gavin Cummiskey

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/penney-criticises-rolland-and-northern-hemisphere-refereeing-1.1746179

Borders no.2

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Irfu were in some financial difficulty when they were talking about shutting Conn down back in the day and this seems to have been over looked.



I also have to say in some of the years since some of the Conn teams should have done better than they did but I guess they bought into the victim complex too.

Also while it's easy to bash the IRFU they have been funding I'd imagine a loss making team for years. For example in 05/06, picked at random, Conn had a total home attendance of 18K for the whole of the Celtic League.

Compare that to
Munster ~70K
Ulster ~90K
Leinster ~60K

I know this sort of thing is more for a quiet off season week but when the IRFU were looking to shut Connacht down they were making a loss of somewhere like €8m of which Connacht accounted for €1.6m (open to clarification on those figures but seem to be what I remember from the time). Getting rid of Connacht would have only saved 20% of their losses.

Attendances at Connacht matches were paltry but we were down the bottom of the league with no real quality players, no real structure to the organisation, nowhere for supporters to stand out of the rain on a bad evening, no support from the IRFU and a part-time coach being kept in his job by his contacts. Plus we played matches at 6.30 on a Friday evening so we wouldn't clash with the dogs. Munster had 70k but they were one of the top teams in Europe at the time. Leinster had 60k but when you consider Leinster's population is 5 times that of Connacht it isn't saying much. Consistent support for Leinster in the league only really came when they moved to the RDS.

We did underachieve at times but I think that came from the top down. There was no real targets for Connacht to meet, no real accountability for poor performance etc. I remember the IRFU bringing out a document with their aims for the next 4/5 years around that time and (again open to clarification) but the whole aims for the provinces focused on just the big 3 with the only aim for Connacht being to reach 2 Challenge Cup quarter finals in 4 years or something along those lines.

When Ulster were going badly they weren't going to risk rocking the boat by Connacht improving enough to get ahead of them. Its only when Ulster moved on a couple of levels that the IRFU regarded it as safe to try and improve Connacht without risk to the other 3.

Look I know this is raking over old history and I'm only really interested in the present but while the IRFU deserve credit for finally tapping into Connacht's potential it shouldn't be forgotten that they wasted a number of years where Connacht could have provided Irish rugby with so much more.

OldRio

I've seen the same in many sports. A great player for a team does not make a great manager.

Interested Observer

jm08 wrote: »

I'd say its not half as bad dealing with poor decisions. Just for the record, this is what Rob Penney had to say about the refs.

Penney criticises Rolland and Northern Hemisphere refereeing

Problem with officiating is so deep rooted it’s having impact on players' livelihoods

Wed, Apr 2, 2014, 01:00
Gavin Cummiskey

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/penney-criticises-rolland-and-northern-hemisphere-refereeing-1.1746179

What is the point of this, who cares? Nothing but whataboutery.