Connacht vs Munster, Sat 16th April 19.15, Sportsground. Sky Sports 5/TG4

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

He gets asked questions, he answers them. All coaches are asked about refeering decisions. Pat Lam has got into plenty of trouble over comments he has made about refs.

The Munster coaches have a huge handicap (which they never complain about or use as an excuse) and that is two training centres which is completely unique in any sport in the world.

Key partnerships train separately - for instance, J Holland is in Cork, Murray is in Limerick. Saili is in Limerick, Scannell is in Cork.

Pure lol.

When Munster were winning in Europe the two training bases was considered part of that reason. Now when you're losing its not.

jm08

Teferi wrote: »

Pure lol.

When Munster were winning in Europe the two training bases was considered part of that reason. Now when you're losing its not.

It wasn't a problem with the calibre of player Munster had back then and you actually had ROG, Stringer/O'Learly, Mafi, Tipoki, Howlett all based in Cork and most of the forwards based in Limerick.

jm08

Interested Observer wrote: »

What is the point of this, who cares? Nothing but whataboutery.

The point is that the standard of refereeing is poor and it won't improve if the coaches/clubs say nothing about it.

Do you want coaches to give bull**** interviews and say the opposite of what they think?

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Foley could just avoid and dodge the question. I'm sick of reading quotes about referees. At this stage I don't care how valid they are.

Well, poor you. Why don't you just turn the volume down or not read the interviews?

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

The point is that the standard of refereeing is poor and it won't improve if the coaches/clubs say nothing about it.

Do you want coaches to give bull**** interviews and say the opposite of what they think?

I don't want the Boy that Cried Wolf routine.

I feel awful for Foley. It draws parallels with Steve Staunton, he was a legend of a player who has universal respect and it upsets me to see how Foley cuts such a frustrated figure as head coach. I haven't lost faith in him, I think an experienced DoR like Erasmus could really help Foley. However, if Munster do fail to qualify for the Champions Cup then I don't think it's acceptable for Foley to remain.

Well, poor you. Why don't you just turn the volume down or not read the interviews?

If you're going to resort to this, I'm out. I'll just put my head in ground and pretend everything's great.

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

It wasn't a problem with the calibre of player Munster had back then and you actually had ROG, Stringer/O'Learly, Mafi, Tipoki, Howlett all based in Cork and most of the forwards based in Limerick.

Haha excellent! I was wondering how you would spin it.

I really hope you work in PR. If not, you should strongly consider a new career.

Interested Observer

jm08 wrote: »

The point is that the standard of refereeing is poor and it won't improve if the coaches/clubs say nothing about it.

Do you want coaches to give bull**** interviews and say the opposite of what they think?

There was nothing wrong with the refereeing last night, you're wrong and so was Foley. If he concentrated on his own role in this mess Munster are in rather than trying to shove the blame onto referees then maybe Munster would improve.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

The point is that the standard of refereeing is poor and it won't improve if the coaches/clubs say nothing about it.

Do you want coaches to give bull**** interviews and say the opposite of what they think?

The standard of Munster's performance is poor and it won't improve if fans and coaches keep focusing on things outside of their control.

jm08

kuang1 wrote: »

Thanks for replying and I agree with what you've said to a point. (I'm always weary when people use isolated examples to bolster an argument)

But straight up...you think Foley is the man to propel Munster rugby forward?
I'm well aware that the guy loves Munster and is committed whole heartedly to the cause, I'm now entirely convinced, 2 seasons in, that he is pure and simply inept.

I've made this comparison before but I'll make it again: it's a replica of when Staunton managed the Irish soccer team. He wasn't capable of doing the job and lacked the wisdom to not put himself forward for the position. Then refused to budge when it became obvious he was in over his depth.

What's Staunton doing these days?

Anyone?

Staunton had no coaching experience. Foley had (started coaching in 2008), so please stop this nonsense of comparing him to Staunton.

From all accounts, Foley is a good coach (this comment was made by some Leinster players when he was coaching Ireland when Gert Smal was ill - they were surprised he was so good). You also have to look at the likes of POM, CJ, TOD who he has been coaching since they were playing underage and Munster A.

awec

Too many excuses being made here. Munster lost because they have too many very average players and too many very average coaches. It's that simple really.

Connacht went up a gear to a level that Munster just can't match. It wasn't the referee, it wasn't two training bases or any other such nonsense, Munster were just well beaten by a better side who are well coached to make them a strong team.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The standard of Munster's performance is poor and it won't improve if fans and coaches keep focusing on things outside of their control.

“It was a key area of interpretation,” said Foley. “We obviously have the value of a replay, but it just seems that it’s two games away from home that Jamesie has been yellow-carded by Ben, so maybe that’s something to look at in the future.”

I interpret that as something Foley says Munster need to sort out (the ref's interpretation of scrum).

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Staunton had no coaching experience. Foley had (started coaching in 2008), so please stop this nonsense of comparing him to Staunton.

I thought he was assistant manager of his club when he was appointed to as head coach?

Foley had more experience than Cullen though. And many others.

"Let's dispel once and for all with the ficiton that Axel Foley doesn't know what he is doing, he knows exactly what he is doing."

Yeah_Right

Two training centres! FFS! It's Cork and Limerick not LA and New York. It's not even a couple of hours drive each way. There are a lot of people who commute for longer to work in jobs a lot less fun than playing professional rugby.

jm08

awec wrote: »

Too many excuses being made here. Munster lost because they have too many very average players and too many very average coaches. It's that simple really.

Connacht went up a gear to a level that Munster just can't match. It wasn't the referee, it wasn't two training bases or any other such nonsense, Munster were just well beaten by a better side who are well coached to make them a strong team.

So you look at what will help Munster improve (and one training base is going to do that for starters) and Munster is getting a new DOR and presumably new coaching staff.

Munster are addressing the situation.

evil_seed

Jesus, Munster lads on here are in total melt down. So much nonsense

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Two training centres! FFS! It's Cork and Limerick not LA and New York. It's not even a couple of hours drive each way. There are a lot of people who commute for longer to work in jobs a lot less fun than playing professional rugby.

Its irrelevant what the distance is if they are not training together every day, which they are not at the moment.

Everyone is saying how helpful it is that the Connacht Academy's trains with the senior squad, so it would suggest that it is a good idea.

kuang1

jm08 wrote: »

So you look at what will help Munster improve (and one training base is going to do that for starters) and Munster is getting a new DOR and presumably new coaching staff.

Munster are addressing the situation.

So is this you waving a white flag and no longer attempting to defend the current set up?

evil_seed

jm08 wrote: »

Its irrelevant what the distance is if they are not training together every day, which they are not at the moment.

Everyone is saying how helpful it is that the Connacht Academy's trains with the senior squad, so it would suggest that it is a good idea.

Let's get all the teams to copy Connacht so. Just cos it works for us doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. Everyone of the squad has bought into Pat's philosophy. They're actively embracing it and reaping the rewards. Penney got ran out of Munster for trying to change things. It's a shame

Robbo

Y'know I was just thinking to myself on the way out of the Sportsground last night that it could have been an entirely different match if there was less traffic through Charleville.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I thought he was assistant manager of his club when he was appointed to as head coach?

Foley had more experience than Cullen though. And many others.

"Let's dispel once and for all with the ficiton that Axel Foley doesn't know what he is doing, he knows exactly what he is doing."

Staunton was Player/Assistant for Walsall in 2005 (for one season) when he was appointed ROI Manager in 2006.

Foley retired in 2008 when he worked his way up from coaching underage Munster teams, Munster A and 3 years as Munster forward's coach where he would have been the senior coach based in Limerick (Penney & Mannix were in Cork). So he had 6 years coaching experience before being appointed Head Coach.

Not remotely comparable to Staunton.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Staunton was Player/Assistant for Walsall in 2005 (for one season) when he was appointed ROI Manager in 2006.

Foley retired in 2008 when he worked his way up from coaching underage Munster teams, Munster A and 3 years as Munster forward's coach where he would have been the senior coach based in Limerick (Penney & Mannix were in Cork). So he had 6 years coaching experience before being appointed Head Coach.

Not remotely comparable to Staunton.

Fine, so you were incorrect, I was just wondering. It's not relevant to rugby at all really, different sports with different requisite skills for coaches.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

I don't know how you get that meaning from that. He says its something Munster have to work on.

He saying he's handed one of his players cards twice. Why say it? Because he's trying to draw attention to it in the public eye. It's nothing to do with it being something they have to work on. He singled out the ref and the player. It's bizarre.

jm08

evil_seed wrote: »

Let's get all the teams to copy Connacht so. Just cos it works for us doesn't mean it'll work for everyone. Everyone of the squad has bought into Pat's philosophy. They're actively embracing it and reaping the rewards. Penney got ran out of Munster for trying to change things. It's a shame

Rob Penney can't get a job in Super Rugby - which is surprising if he is such a great coach.

kuang1

jm08 wrote: »

Staunton was Player/Assistant for Walsall in 2005 (for one season) when he was appointed ROI Manager in 2006.

Foley retired in 2008 when he worked his way up from coaching underage Munster teams, Munster A and 3 years as Munster forward's coach where he would have been the senior coach based in Limerick (Penney & Mannix were in Cork). So he had 6 years coaching experience before being appointed Head Coach.

Not remotely comparable to Staunton.

Ineptitude is entirely comparable.

Mahatma Geansai

I don't think any reasonable person could deny that the dual training bases is a bad thing that impacts the squad. Complaints about it go back as far to Jim William's days.

A single training base and a new coaching staff should go a long way to improving Munster's fortunes. The playing squad is good enough to be competitive in the Pro12 and push for the knock-out stages in the Champions Cup. Better coaching and a happier/more confident environment should make a huge difference.

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Rob Penney can't get a job in Super Rugby - which is surprising if he is such a great coach.

Which position did he apply for?

There's reportedly personal animosity between Penney and Hansen isn't there?

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

Its irrelevant what the distance is if they are not training together every day, which they are not at the moment.

Everyone is saying how helpful it is that the Connacht Academy's trains with the senior squad, so it would suggest that it is a good idea.

That's what I'm saying. Players being based in Limerick and Cork is not an excuse for them not training together every day. The cities are close enough to each other. The fact they aren't training together every day is a **** up by Munster rugby.

Bazzo

evil_seed wrote: »

Jesus, Munster lads on here are in total melt down. So much nonsense

To be fair the majority of Munster supporters I've spoken to and heard from today have been disappointed with their team and gracious losers, just the odd few on here wearing the usual glasses tinted so red they're effectively rendered blind.

And in response to the whataboutery of Lam criticising a ref last year: you're right, he did do that, he got a fine for his troubles and drew a huge amount of public criticism(including from many Connacht supporters) and hasn't done it since. Foley seems to be tripping over himself to draw criticism away from himself, the coaching staff and the players every week rather than buckling down and working on what needs to be workedo n.

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Which position did he apply for?

There's reportedly personal animosity between Penney and Hansen isn't there?

Can't remember his name being linked with any of the clubs. As for any animosity, swiwi would probably know more. He's from the same neck of the woods.

jm08

kuang1 wrote: »

Ineptitude is entirely comparable.

That is not why they are compared though.