Tesla Model 3

Gumbo

ForestFire wrote: »

EV's are mostly a viable option for the reasonably wealthy at the moment and you admit you are already getting a grant towards the cost for you...The Rich persons grant for new toys, I'll call it.

The average person cannot afford these types of cars, even considering the Leafs, which are above the average family's budget and the second hand market is non-existent.

On top of this, as one of your options, you now want to remove VRT only for EV's only (Remember the rich peoples toys) and keep screwing the average person....How many discounts do you want!!

Also, if VRT was removed the government would still need to raise the VRT shortfall in some other way (General taxation) and the car companies would most likely increase their base prices due to the opportunity to hide any VRT decrease and keep their prices in line with other countries.

(Sarcasm warning and some poetic licence for dramatic effect)
If you want a luxury EV (model 3 Thread) with high performance, made with heavily mined rare and dangerous metals for unsustainable batteries, charged with electricity produce by burning the emblems of compressed dinosaurs..... pay for it yourself....:o

Leaf, Zoe both available from 7k.

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

Leaf, Zoe both available from 7k.

That doesnt suit his "woe is me" begrudgery though

ForestFire

kceire wrote: »

Leaf, Zoe both available from 7k.

There are 75 leaf's in total on carzone and 47 zoe's

Only one of the leafs e is anywhere near 7k
The next car is at almost 9k

My point was there is not enough available to the mass market for the average buyer.

120 second hand ev's is not a market.


(I know there will be more cars than this on other sites but it is still enough to supply any decent % of market)

p.s. My post was in reply to some one who said, Paraphrasing "I want grants and even more tax savings, for my performance EV car over what everyone else gets".

Also the fact that I warned of strong Sarcasm in my post, so try not to take every point in it too seriously and enjoy your cars you worked hard for.

I know.... I will enjoy my new petrol car when it arrives next week, and maybe even an EV when its time to change again in 3/5 years, when they make a proper family car estate option. (No doubt all the grants will be gone by then as they will start to hit the affordable mark for the "Average" buyer and the government will not be able to afford to give everyone a perk to change)

username?!

Mike9832 wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 P is more like a 335i

Model 3 LR = 330d/330i/330e

Model 3 SR = 325i/325d

BMW M3 is a different monster to M3P

Years of research gone into get every bit of performance out of it

M3P is just a Model 3 with more power in comparison, its like the difference between a 335i and 325i

M3P can't go round the ring without overheating, a proper EV sports car from Porsche etc will have no such problem

Agreed.

Owned both a P100D and M5 and they are nowhere near comparable.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

Fatal flaw in that logic is that it takes alot less energy to heat with a HP than with oil.

Back in 2011 when I was building the building regulations classified electricity as a 'dirty ' source of energy for home heating due to the CO2 emissions from electricity generation and the significant transmission losses of the electricity network. I installed a HP but I remember it would have been more beneficial at the time to install gas heating or even an oil boiler.

If I have the time I must dig out the various calculations made for the BER assessment.

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 P is more like a 335i

Model 3 LR = 330d/330i/330e

Model 3 SR = 325i/325d

BMW M3 is a different monster to M3P

Years of research gone into get every bit of performance out of it

M3P is just a Model 3 with more power in comparison, its like the difference between a 335i and 325i

M3P can't go round the ring without overheating, a proper EV sports car from Porsche etc will have no such problem

OK, I try to keep up, but what is m3p?

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

OK, I try to keep up, but what is m3p?

He meant MP3.....

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He meant MP3.....

?I still don't

Mike9832

Deleted User wrote: »

?I still don't

Model 3 Performance

M3P

Mike9832

username?! wrote: »

Agreed.

Owned both a P100D and M5 and they are nowhere near comparable.

Nice to be you

catharsis

ELM327 wrote: »

X5 m50d and m550d would disagree.

those aren't M cars, they are 'more' than 'M-Lite' but not a full 'M5X'

TCP/IP

catharsis wrote: »

those aren't M cars, they are 'more' than 'M-Lite' but not a full 'M5X'

You are correct they are not M cars.

Gumbo

They are beefed up MSport versions only.
M Performance is what BMW call them.

On the other hand I believe the M Division (totally separate from m Performance) do get their anchors into the X5M and the M550i. Just not the diesel versions?

SaintsYB

kceire wrote: »

They are beefed up MSport versions only.
M Performance is what BMW call them.

On the other hand I believe the M Division (totally separate from m Performance) do get their anchors into the X5M and the M550i. Just not the diesel versions?

I'm pretty sure the M Division doesn't to any tinkering to the M550i. It only works on full M models.

Gumbo

SaintsYB wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the M Division doesn't to any tinkering to the M550i. It only works on full M models.

Quite possible.
I remember reading it a while ago but I can’t find anything now. It appears the M550i, M340i etc are part of the M Performance bracket.

SE
MSport
M Performance
M

Is pretty much the order nowadays.
Then they confuse you again and release little sub models in between . We have an MSport Plus F10 which is pretty much a normal MSport with a few additional factory fitted option.

I remember my days of M3 ownership, E36 and E46. I don’t know which M car I’d pick from the line up nowadays though. M6 Grand Coupe appears to be top of my list currently.

digiman

kceire wrote: »

Quite possible.
I remember reading it a while ago but I can’t find anything now. It appears the M550i, M340i etc are part of the M Performance bracket.

SE
MSport
M Performance
M

Is pretty much the order nowadays.
Then they confuse you again and release little sub models in between . We have an MSport Plus F10 which is pretty much a normal MSport with a few additional factory fitted option.

I remember my days of M3 ownership, E36 and E46. I don’t know which M car I’d pick from the line up nowadays though. M6 Grand Coupe appears to be top of my list currently.

The new 8 Grand Coupe could be amazing. I love the 6 but there is just something about the shape of the front lights that dampens it a bit for me

jarrieta

Will try to steer this back on topic. I was seeing the M3 in sandyford yesterday. I really liked it, interior was nice, I would have loved having a wipers control and a HUD, but overall very nice and excellent materials, much nicer feeling than my F11.

He said we might have the configurator open in a couple of weeks, but I guess that was pure speculation. We will have to wait and see...

Red looks amazing

Shefwedfan

Looks like Tesla might have a few issues with the Model 3 sales

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4259777-teslas-86-percent-model-3-april-sales-decline-norway-volkswagens-e-golf-now-outsells?fbclid=IwAR3jmTR5FnOX008Nnm44Y-XHTH6sEJw7oAPIeDFsMpxs3619tm3QlMhTBZI

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Looks like Tesla might have a few issues with the Model 3 sales

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4259777-teslas-86-percent-model-3-april-sales-decline-norway-volkswagens-e-golf-now-outsells?fbclid=IwAR3jmTR5FnOX008Nnm44Y-XHTH6sEJw7oAPIeDFsMpxs3619tm3QlMhTBZI

They delivered 3 years worth of orders in 1 quarter and cleared out the back log. How many egolfs were delivered last quarter ? We’re Tesla shipping to Norway last month or did they divert cars elsewhere and will deliver next month.

Time will tell

Shefwedfan

ted1 wrote: »

They delivered 3 years worth of orders in 1 quarter and cleared out the back log. How many egolfs were delivered last quarter ? We’re Tesla shipping to Norway last month or did they divert cars elsewhere and will deliver next month.

Time will tell

:p:p:p

Old diesel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Looks like Tesla might have a few issues with the Model 3 sales

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4259777-teslas-86-percent-model-3-april-sales-decline-norway-volkswagens-e-golf-now-outsells?fbclid=IwAR3jmTR5FnOX008Nnm44Y-XHTH6sEJw7oAPIeDFsMpxs3619tm3QlMhTBZI

In that case so do Hyundai, Nissan and basically anyone who isn't VW.

(Tesla outsold every body bar the eGolf).

There are some questions that might be raised......

1) what is the order book like for Model 3 in Norway - are there still people waiting for cars that havent arrived yet

2) how much inventory of undelivered/unsold Model 3s are sitting around in Norway.

Those are important

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Looks like Tesla might have a few issues with the Model 3 sales

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4259777-teslas-86-percent-model-3-april-sales-decline-norway-volkswagens-e-golf-now-outsells?fbclid=IwAR3jmTR5FnOX008Nnm44Y-XHTH6sEJw7oAPIeDFsMpxs3619tm3QlMhTBZI

Didn't know VW could even produce that many eGolfs - probably all sold at a loss?

Can't wait for the ID range. When is the first ID expected to be with a customer?

Shefwedfan

So many questions.....very easy to set off the Tesla fans. You all get so defensive....

The number I actually looked at was number 6, that was the most impressive.....

From eGolf point of view, still strong sales....what will happen when ID comes out

ted1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So many questions.....very easy to set off the Tesla fans. You all get so defensive....

The number I actually looked at was number 6, that was the most impressive.....

Not really I think we all took an impartial view. You’ve just been sucking to many be tailpipes to notice.

Old diesel

Look less then two years ago people were actually questioning Teslas ability to BUILD a car due to Model 3 production hell.

My favourite was the one about welding the bodywork. MASSIVE issues I was reading at the time.

Now Tesla can't sell a car.......

My beef with Tesla bashing is that no one really bothers to reflect on what Tesla achieved from zero in a decade.

Old diesel

Look less then two years ago people were actually questioning Teslas ability to BUILD a car due to Model 3 production hell.

My favourite was the one about welding the bodywork. MASSIVE issues I was reading at the time.

Now Tesla can't sell a car.......

My beef with Tesla bashing is that no one really bothers to reflect on what Tesla achieved from zero in a decade.

josip

Since it's usually pointed out how electrek et al are shills for Tesla, it's also worth noting that this author has skin in the game.

Disclosure: I am/we are short TSLA. I wrote this article myself, and it expresses my own opinions. I am not receiving compensation for it (other than from Seeking Alpha). I have no business relationship with any company whose stock is mentioned in this article.

AidenL

Well I paid for a reservation on a Model 3 today.

Now for the order books to open.

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Looks like Tesla might have a few issues with the Model 3 sales

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4259777-teslas-86-percent-model-3-april-sales-decline-norway-volkswagens-e-golf-now-outsells?fbclid=IwAR3jmTR5FnOX008Nnm44Y-XHTH6sEJw7oAPIeDFsMpxs3619tm3QlMhTBZI

They will all have trouble selling in numbers, including VW

Electric demand is overblown

Majority of people don't mind filling up 30e petrol a week, especially older generation with the money who buy new cars

Everyone is laughing at Toyota with self charging, but they'll have the last laugh yet

I love EVs, but Toyota are right to wait till tech is ready for mass market with 5/5/5/5 they refer to ( 500km/5 min charge time/€50kW/500w/kg)

Governments shouldnt force people into EVs till that tech is ready

Batteries still too crap and expensive for mass introduction without incentives

Gumbo

Never heard of this 5/5/5/5 slogan ???