Tesla Model 3

bk

So the Tesla Model 3 has finally been announced, looks like an incredible car.

215 miles range (US which is much more strict and closer to reality then Europe) and starting $35,000.



http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/31/11335272/tesla-model-3-announced-price-release-date-specs-preorder

Video of it driving:

https://www.periscope.tv/TeslaMotors/1dRKZyRkpgNxB

hoodie6029

Product launch video here: https://www.teslamotors.com/model3

Sabre Man

A 5 minute summary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVleMIl12s0

So 35 K USD, + 23 % VAT and 14% VRT = 43,015 (EURO's) the VAT added after the VRT and VRT charged at 14%.

- 5 k grant and 5K vrt relief = 33,015 Euro's + conversion to right hand drive ? no idea of cost there.

That's cheaper than a GTD Golf TDI DSG. which costs 41,000 Euro's without a lot of extras too !

The Model 3 gets Autopilot.

Lets hope the Government don't screw things up like removing VRT relief and grant.

Probably won't be available in Ireland until 2018.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

The Model 3 gets Autopilot.

It seems that while the Model 3 has the Autopilot hardware, the base model only has the Autopilot safety features by default (i.e. auto braking). Self driving, summon, etc. will be costly extras.

Which is totally fair IMO, what this car is coming with even in the base model is a helluva lot of car.

I expect, AWD, insane/ludicrous mode, bigger battery/range and full autopilot to be costly extras. I'd expect it to reach 60k with all extras. Really no different then a BMW 3, etc. but much more interesting IMO.

bk

Oh and I love the all glass roof. Didn't expect that, nice extra, I thought they were just going to go for a very plain car. With cost/range being the primary goal and selling point.

An all glass roof like that is probably perfect for the Irish market. Leaves a lot of nice light in, great for the kids in the back, but much more practical then a convertible in Ireland.

Not sure how well it will work in summer in Texas though. Might require lots of AC (and thus battery) to keep cool.

Sadly I bet it won't take many BMW / Audi or even Golf drivers.

I'd say at best you're probably looking at and I'm being generous here, 5% the total VW Group sales in Ireland.

KCross

Where would an Irish number plate go on the front?
Its OK in the US as you dont have to have a front facing number plate but a front facing number plate on that centre "grill" area would look horrible.

Nice car though!

I would just refuse to put one on and suffer the Court appearances LOL.

We don't need a front reg, it's ridiculous.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

Sadly I bet it won't take many BMW / Audi or even Golf drivers.

I'd say at best you're probably looking at and I'm being generous here, 5% the total VW Group sales in Ireland.

I have to disagree, if priced right I think this could demolish BMW/VW in Ireland IMO.

For many years the BMW 3 series was the topping selling car in Ireland. But mostly the entry level, base model with the most economical (i.e. slow) diesel engine. Clearly Irish people wanted to have the BMW badge, but didn't actually care about performance and wanted the best fuel economy possible.

The Model 3's fuel economy will be vastly superior obviously and I think that will greatly appeal to many Irish people.

Walking to work today, it struck me the very large number of 15x and 16x Prius, Auris Hybrids, Leafs, etc. I see around. At least 50% of new cars I see seem to be some sort of EV. I think their is a real thirst amongst Irish people for fuel efficient cars, either for environmental reasons or the price of fuel.

VW has nothing to compete with this. If this is priced the same as a golf, then it will destroy VW. A golf is a compact car while this is a midsized (sporty looking) sedan, a much larger car. If they are the same price, then you would be mad to get a golf over this.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

So 35 K USD, + 23 % VAT and 14% VRT = 43,015 (EURO's) the VAT added after the VRT and VRT charged at 14%.

- 5 k grant and 5K vrt relief = 33,015 Euro's + conversion to right hand drive ? no idea of cost there.

That's cheaper than a GTD Golf TDI DSG. which costs 41,000 Euro's without a lot of extras too !

The Model 3 gets Autopilot.

Lets hope the Government don't screw things up like removing VRT relief and grant.

Probably won't be available in Ireland until 2018.

I really cant see that sort of pricing for the RHD model , I suspect it will be a premium price

slicedpanman

KCross wrote: »

Where would an Irish number plate go on the front?
Its OK in the US as you dont have to have a front facing number plate but a front facing number plate on that centre "grill" area would look horrible.

Nice car though!

yeah... that thought struck me too... hopefully it will not spoil the front too much
still, I think its time to start saving up

serfboard

bk wrote: »

If this is priced the same as a golf, then it will destroy VW.

And they deserve to be destroyed IMO based on the way they've carried on with their "engines emitt[ing] nitrogen oxide pollutants up to 40 times above what is allowed". I hope the US regulators fine them out of existence - because we certainly can't rely on European regulators to do anything about them.

In the meantime fair play to Tesla - eliminating vehicle emissions and our dependence on Middle East dictatorships.

BoatMad

serfboard wrote: »

And they deserve to be destroyed IMO based on the way they've carried on with their "engines emitt[ing] nitrogen oxide pollutants up to 40 times above what is allowed". I hope the US regulators fine them out of existence - because we certainly can't rely on European regulators to do anything about them.

In the meantime fair play to Tesla - eliminating vehicle emissions and our dependence on Middle East dictatorships.

dont pussyfoot around , tell us how you really feel

ongarite

First drive video of the Model 3, showing off interior & new landscape interface tablet UI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N47Rn2vrc0

Sabre Man

ongarite wrote: »

First drive video of the Model 3, showing off interior & new landscape interface tablet UI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N47Rn2vrc0

I don't think the interior is finished.

nokia69

Sabre Man wrote: »

I don't think the interior is finished.

Its not, but thats a good idea of how it will look

We got very few details, battery size, supercharger cost ect

Still it looks good to me

stesaurus

Yeah no way that will be the final interior. That's why they're not showing any official photographs of it. The screen is way to big and distracting for my liking too. I'd drop it right down and include a smaller LCD above the steering wheel for basic info and have it split and show up any turns required when in navigation mode.

My PCP deal will be up at end of 2018 so hoping there's no delays on this and I can switch over or hopefully see what BMW etc. have by then.

It's possible to pre-order one in Ireland on tesla.com. Do we know if they will be opening stores here or selling them through their UK network?

nokia69

cisk wrote: »

It's possible to pre-order one in Ireland on tesla.com. Do we know if they will be opening stores here or selling them through their UK network?

There is at least one store on the way, Dublin would be my guess

Indricotherium

serfboard wrote: »

.

In the meantime fair play to Tesla - eliminating vehicle emissions and our dependence on Middle East dictatorships.

How much net emissions does it eliminate though?

The electricity has to come from somewhere, and in most of Europe and all of Ireland this means fossil fuels, coal, oil, natural gas and so on.

I appreciate that eliminating exhaust fumes from the roads is probably a good thing, but I wonder if it just increases the load on power stations and just moves the carbon around rather than meaningfully reducing it.

Obviously if all the carbon is being released in one place it is much easier to mitigate it's effects or even stop it being released but in real terms will this happen.

On another note. This is a guaranteed future classic, as is the Nissan leaf. Wouldn't be surprised to see them going for massive money in 30/40/50 years. .... The car that made EV normal.

Mc-BigE

just looking at that dashboard on the video, and i'd reckon it would be pretty easy for Tesla to convert to RHD, as there are no clocks above the steering wheel and the dashboard looks flat on both sides

boardzz

Indricotherium wrote: »

How much net emissions does it eliminate though?

The electricity has to come from somewhere, and in most of Europe and all of Ireland this means fossil fuels, coal, oil, natural gas and so on.

I appreciate that eliminating exhaust fumes from the roads is probably a good thing, but I wonder if it just increases the load on power stations and just moves the carbon around rather than meaningfully reducing it.

Obviously if all the carbon is being released in one place it is much easier to mitigate it's effects or even stop it being released but in real terms will this happen.

On another note. This is a guaranteed future classic, as is the Nissan leaf. Wouldn't be surprised to see them going for massive money in 30/40/50 years. .... The car that made EV normal.

This argument really annoys me.

1. I as a citizen can not make a decision to change how the power in this country is made. I can only do my part by buying a zero emission car.
Government can change how the power is produced.

2. You can currently choose an energy provider that offers 100% renewable energy to your house.

umbauk

So has anyone else put a deposit down? I'm assuming 2018 at least before deliveries start here given RHD seems to be behind Asia on the delivery list! But at least by then I'll be able to afford one

bk

Indricotherium wrote: »

How much net emissions does it eliminate though?

The electricity has to come from somewhere, and in most of Europe and all of Ireland this means fossil fuels, coal, oil, natural gas and so on.

As a general rule of thumb, EV's produce about 1/3rd of the CO2 per KM travelled, as petrol/diesel cars do in Ireland.

There are a few reasons for this. Typically ICE are far less efficient then power stations.

Also the make up of the Irish power grid is actually quite clean. About 25% wind and hydro, about 50% gas (which is much cleaner then oil) and about 25% dirty coal/peat (but still better then oil in a car).

Finally EV's tend to be mostly charged at night when the wind typically blows the hardest and lots of electricity is being generated by the wind turbines, but currently goes to waste as their simply isn't the power requirements at night.

Indricotherium wrote: »

I appreciate that eliminating exhaust fumes from the roads is probably a good thing, but I wonder if it just increases the load on power stations and just moves the carbon around rather than meaningfully reducing it.

And this is a very important point. Not only do EV's greatly reduce the amount of CO2 being released, but they also release ZERO NOx.

NOx is one of the terrible substances that comes out of the back of Diesel cars and causes cancer, asthma, etc.

If EV's eliminated just NOx, that would make them worth doing on their own.

But to answer your question, if all cars were EV's, then we would be producing 2/3rds less CO2 and vastly less NOx.

Indricotherium wrote: »

Obviously if all the carbon is being released in one place it is much easier to mitigate it's effects or even stop it being released but in real terms will this happen.

Exactly, our power generation grid has gotten much "cleaner" over the last 30 years and it is likely to continue to do so.

Wind is increasing all the time. The government is being forced to close the awful, dirty peat plants and it is only a matter of time until Moneypoint is converted from coal to biomass and more cleaner gas power.

So if you buy an EV today, it will be relatively "Clean" and it will only get cleaner over it's lifetime. An ICE car will just be as dirty (likely even dirtier due to failing filters, etc.) 20 years from now then it is today.

Indricotherium

bk wrote: »

So if you buy an EV today, it will be relatively "Clean" and it will only get cleaner over it's lifetime. An ICE car will just be as dirty (likely even dirtier due to failing filters, etc.) 20 years from now then it is today.

good point!

Jayop

Something like 130000 ordered already lol.

Looks like I'll have to wait for my one.

Scottie99

umbauk wrote: »

So has anyone else put a deposit down? I'm assuming 2018 at least before deliveries start here given RHD seems to be behind Asia on the delivery list! But at least by then I'll be able to afford one

My PCP finishes in 2019. I'm gonna wait until I see what's in the whole package first. Is the deposit returnable?

umbauk

Yes, you can get a refund at any time (assuming Tesla doesn't go bankrupt...)

DrPhilG

My plan was to continue driving my 141 Leaf for 4 years (currently 9 months). By then I'll have roughly €7-8k saved up to put towards my next car alongside trading/selling my Leaf.

The original plan was to buy a second hand 60kw "Leaf II" but depending on the price and second hand market on the Model 3, I might be tempted to splash out a little more.

Saw my first Model S in the flesh yesterday, stunning car.

Also to add to the emissions, how much energy do people think it takes to firstly, search for the oil, build an oil rig, drill for the oil, extract it, load it on tankers , transport it to refineries, refine it and transport it to the petrol stations ? it's a vast amount of energy that's for sure.

Indricotherium

Deleted User wrote: »

Also to add to the emissions, how much energy do people think it takes to firstly, search for the oil, build an oil rig, drill for the oil, extract it, load it on tankers , transport it to refineries, refine it and transport it to the petrol stations ? it's a vast amount of energy that's for sure.

A plug in Electric vehicle is only cutting out the last step there though. Fossil fuels are still needed to generate a lot of the electricity in the grid.

Although as has been pointed out, a significant amount of electricity in Ireland is renewable and that share is only likely to increase.

mad m

Just back from Texas, to fill my brother in laws 2litre Audi it was $25 when it hit red on fuel display. It will take a lot to convert the average American to convert to electricity plus the motor industry over there ain't going to like it. A friend of his was looking to buy a Tesla but with not many charging points he was a bit put off. Think there was 4 charging ports in Waco.

Sabre Man

mad m wrote: »

Just back from Texas, to fill my brother in laws 2litre Audi it was $25 when it hit red on fuel display. It will take a lot to convert the average American to convert to electricity plus the motor industry over there ain't going to like it. A friend of his was looking to buy a Tesla but with not many charging points he was a bit put off. Think there was 4 charging ports in Waco.

Tesla Model S Outsells Mercedes, BMW, Audi, And Porsche In US
http://gas2.org/2016/02/15/tesla-model-s-outsells-mercedes-bmw-audi-and-porsche-in-us/

mad m

Thanks for the link. But average Americans where I was didn't have Merc's or Porsches. They mostly had pickup's or SUV's. Just wondering also let's say you had a Tesla in Texas, during summer months you have to have air con all the time, I'm assuming this will bring the mileage down on the Tesla range?

Scottie99

An interesting article regarding the Model3

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/31/tesla-s-model-3-could-destroy-elon-musk-s-company.html

Sabre Man

mad m wrote: »

Thanks for the link. But average Americans where I was didn't have Merc's or Porsches. They mostly had pickup's or SUV's. Just wondering also let's say you had a Tesla in Texas, during summer months you have to have air con all the time, I'm assuming this will bring the mileage down on the Tesla range?

Yes, air con or heating will reduce the range but not massively so.

ted1

Just having a thought about the order system, say they take 115,000 orders.
That's some Kickstarter $115,000,000 interest free. For cars that won't be delivered till late 2017 at the earliest, and have yet to have their design finalised, fair play to them it really shows that with a 300+ range people will switch.

If I don't order realistically when would be the earliest I could get one ? 2020?

Scottie99

Another link regarding the Model3 poor boot design..

http://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-tesla-model-3s-biggest-design-fail-1768467573?rev=1459527087441&utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

umbauk

Can't find any pictures of the front boot (do you call it a boot when it's at the front?), but assume it will be easier to access. Not sure how big it will be though.

thierry14

What's the weight and bhp on the basic model

Hoping for Golf Gti/Focus St pace

1400kg/250bhp

nokia69

ted1 wrote: »

Just having a thought about the order system, say they take 115,000 orders.
That's some Kickstarter $115,000,000 interest free. For cars that won't be delivered till late 2017 at the earliest, and have yet to have their design finalised, fair play to them it really shows that with a 300+ range people will switch.

If I don't order realistically when would be the earliest I could get one ? 2020?

I think that all depends on what you order, people who order the top of the range Model 3 will get theirs first, order the base $35k model and you may have to wait

thierry14

ted1 wrote: »

That's some Kickstarter $115,000,000 interest free

Hopefully that wakes up the Japs and Germans, what they offer is pathetic.

ted1

Scottie99 wrote: »

Another link regarding the Model3 poor boot design..

http://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-tesla-model-3s-biggest-design-fail-1768467573?rev=1459527087441&utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Remember it's not the final design , but change the shape of the glass and making it a 2 piece could add to the cost

nokia69

thierry14 wrote: »

Hopefully that wakes up the Japs and Germans, what they offer is pathetic.

A bit unfair both are moving in the right direction, and Toyota will wake up soon

Yeah that boot is atrocious and probably the ultimate reason I wouldn't buy it. And the cost of course but hopefully it's a decent price by the time it makes it over here. Maybe they'll have made it a proper hatch then too. Though my lease is up in 2018 the Leaf II will probably be here by then and I'll most likely change to that or maybe someone else will make a 300 odd KM range EV that has a decent boot !

Scottie99

I also note the GM have dropped the price of the Bolt to $20k in response to the 3 launch. Interesting times ahead..

Scottie99

Scottie99 wrote: »

I also note the GM have dropped the price of the Bolt to $20k in response to the 3 launch. Interesting times ahead..

No way ? this isn't April 1st any more you know ? that's a 10 K drop ? they can't that's a major loss in revenue !

At least the tesla has supercharging the Bolt makes do with 50 Kw max. Though the way they said it appeared like that could change if they wanted.

April fool, according to the article the title is 20 dollars not 20,000 lol

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/general-motors-responds-to-tesla-model-3-slashes-2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-pricing-to-20/

There's no way GM could afford to sell the bolt for 20,000 !

Scottie99

Ok 😂 it came up on my FB page this morning.

LOL yeah good April Fool !