Tesla Model 3

Zenith74

USSCork wrote: »

Now, minus from the above the SEAI grant @ €5,000 and the VRT rebate @ €5,000 and that brings the cost to €46,034.

I truly hope that either I'm wrong

Model S in the UK costs €84500, it costs €87750 here, so ~4% more expensive here.

Model 3 in the UK costs €45350, add 4% gets you €47000 here.

So I'd say your €46k is pretty close...

USSCork

eagerv wrote: »

Is VRT not added to the final all inclusive figure? if so you can add a few more K.:mad:

Hi eagerv,

I'm not sure if VAT is paid on the VRT, but I don't think VAT is included on the VRT calculation, so it might be a little cheaper...

...
...
Then add Irish VAT @ 23% of €39,961 = €9,191, bringing the price to €49,152
Then add Irish VRT @ 14% of €39,961 = €5,595, bringing the total to €54,747 for the Entry level Model 3 in Ireland!

Now, minus from the above the SEAI grant @ €5,000 and the VRT rebate @ €5,000 and that brings the cost to €44,747.


I'm not in this industry, so the above is my best educated guess.

Thanks,

eagerv

USSCork wrote: »

Hi eagerv,

I'm not sure if VAT is paid on the VRT, but I don't think VAT is included on the VRT calculation, so it might be a little cheaper...

...
...
Then add Irish VAT @ 23% of €39,961 = €9,191, bringing the price to €49,152
Then add Irish VRT @ 14% of €39,961 = €5,595, bringing the total to €54,747 for the Entry level Model 3 in Ireland!

Now, minus from the above the SEAI grant @ €5,000 and the VRT rebate @ €5,000 and that brings the cost to €44,747.


I'm not in this industry, so the above is my best educated guess.

Thanks,

Hi, I'm not in the industry either so hope i am wrong. I remember when VRT first came out people giving out that it was a tax upon a tax.

Villain

Revenue say:

4.2.Value-Added Tax (VAT) charges on new vehicles bought and sold by an authorised motor dealerIn general, VAT is due (at the standard rate) on the full purchase price received by a dealer for any vehicle. However, in the sale of an unregistered vehicle by an authorised dealer, Revenue will accept that the portion of the purchase price that represents the VRT liability is paid by the dealer in the name and on the account of the purchaser; i.e., the customer pays the VRT, and the dealer simply administers the payment from the money handed to him or her.Accordingly, the VAT liability on the sale of a new vehicle by an authorised motor dealer is generally calculated on the VRT-exclusive amount received from the customer. (This also applies in the case of a second-hand or used vehicle brought into the State by an authorised dealer, and sold by him or her prior to being registered in Ireland). In the case of the sale of a registered vehicle, a VAT liabilityarises on the full VRT-inclusive amount received, and no adjustment is allowed

Out of interest does anyone know if Model 3s can be used as a taxi in Ireland? I vaguely remember something about minimum dimensions etc. for PSVs.

unkel

The regulator is kind to EVs. Even cars that don't even come close to the dimensions have been approved as taxis like the Renault Zoe

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

The regulator is kind to EVs. Even cars that don't even come close to the dimensions have been approved as taxis like the Renault Zoe

+1

This is how the Gen 1 Leaf qualified.
It didn't strictly meet the internal passenger and luggage measurements but because its an EV, they will overlook this.

pdpmur

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of interest does anyone know if Model 3s can be used as a taxi in Ireland? I vaguely remember something about minimum dimensions etc. for PSVs.

Does Tesla still have the right to void a warrranty if it discovers that one of its cars is being used for commercial purposes?

USSCork

pdpmur wrote: »

Does Tesla still have the right to void a warrranty if it discovers that one of its cars is being used for commercial purposes?

I think that was all just to do with Free Super Charging... ie. a commercial entity using a Tesla with Free Super Charging for commercial purposes.

Loads of Tesla's worldwide are used commercially. Nearly all the Taxis around Schipol Airport in the Netherlands, are Tesla Model Ss for example.

grogi

eagerv wrote: »

Is VRT not added to the final all inclusive figure? if so you can add a few more K.:mad:

Yes it is.

jusmeig

I was in Sandyford today. Lovely machine! Build quality was excellent, and the sales guy noted it was an early VIN so apparently quality has improved since.

Doors close with a solid clunk. Booth is huge, at least as big if not bigger than an A4 or 3 series. The touch screen is really sharp and responsive.

No price and he was vague about when ordering opens for IRL...soon.

AidenL

Im disappointed that the Model 3 only has adaptive lights and not Matrix, adaptive is a bit old school these days.

So are we guessing the Performance model will be between 66 and 69 k ? If so, its a bargain compared to an M3 which it bested on the Top Gear test. I know the M3 might have a drivers car edge, but its hard ti exploit that extra on Irish roads.

The all wheel drive and that acceleration will be useful in the real world.

Villain

grogi wrote: »

Yes it is.

VAT is calculated on the VRT-exclusive amount as per Revenue.ie:

4.2.Value-Added Tax (VAT) charges on new vehicles bought and sold by an authorised motor dealerIn general, VAT is due (at the standard rate) on the full purchase price received by a dealer for any vehicle. However, in the sale of an unregistered vehicle by an authorised dealer, Revenue will accept that the portion of the purchase price that represents the VRT liability is paid by the dealer in the name and on the account of the purchaser; i.e., the customer pays the VRT, and the dealer simply administers the payment from the money handed to him or her.Accordingly, the VAT liability on the sale of a new vehicle by an authorised motor dealer is generally calculated on the VRT-exclusive amount received from the customer. (This also applies in the case of a second-hand or used vehicle brought into the State by an authorised dealer, and sold by him or her prior to being registered in Ireland). In the case of the sale of a registered vehicle, a VAT liabilityarises on the full VRT-inclusive amount received, and no adjustment is allowed

TCP/IP

AidenL wrote: »

Im disappointed that the Model 3 only has adaptive lights and not Matrix, adaptive is a bit old school these days.

So are we guessing the Performance model will be between 66 and 69 k ? If so, its a bargain compared to an M3 which it bested on the Top Gear test. I know the M3 might have a drivers car edge, but its hard ti exploit that extra on Irish roads.

The all wheel drive and that acceleration will be useful in the real world.

It beat the M3 in a staged race watch it its so fake. It’s Top Gear always an agenda be it online views or magazine sales. If a proper driver raced the two cars the M3 would blitz the model 3.

Gumbo

TCP/IP wrote: »

It beat the M3 in a staged race watch it its so fake. It’s Top Gear always an agenda be it online views or magazine sales. If a proper driver raced the two cars the M3 would blitz the model 3.

We will have to wait for independent reviews I suppose.
Going by that logic, we can root out every single TG review of the BMW M3 and assume it was also staged and TG had an agenda to allow it to come out on top.

Soarer

TCP/IP wrote: »

It beat the M3 in a staged race watch it its so fake. It’s Top Gear always an agenda be it online views or magazine sales. If a proper driver raced the two cars the M3 would blitz the model 3.

Yeah, 'cause everyone that buys cars is a "proper" driver!

In the real world, most people want to be able to plant their foot and go. In that scenario, the Tesla wins all day.

josip

I'm surprised that given the threat that Tesla poses to the M3 market, there aren't more videos from BMW supporters of Teslas overheating around the Nurburgring and the like.
Are they keeping their powder dry until the new M3 later this year?
Or is it that Tesla has already closed the gap between it and the current M3 even with 'proper drivers'?

AidenL

Soarer wrote: »

Yeah, 'cause everyone that buys cars is a "proper" driver!

In the real world, most people want to be able to plant their foot and go. In that scenario, the Tesla wins all day.

I agree. I have owned some very fast rwd cars - they aren’t much fun on a bumpy back road on a wet, windy or frosty night when 300 bhp plus gets applied. As I get older, I’m placing more value on usability and safety.

I love the BMW M cars, but things are changing.

samih

Yes. I still think that it's mad that we are comparing a four door family car (ok a hot version of it) to a BMW M3 as a track weapon. Things are changing and this is just the step one while waiting for batteries that don't need complex cooling and heating systems. But these comparisons show that the BEVs are almost there even for the edge cases.

dingledosser

Villain wrote: »

VAT is calculated on the VRT-exclusive amount as per Revenue.ie:

This is correct. Just spoke to my uncle, he owns a Nissan dealership. The phrase he used was 'VRT is calculated on the bare metal price', before VAT.

TCP/IP

josip wrote: »

I'm surprised that given the threat that Tesla poses to the M3 market, there aren't more videos from BMW supporters of Teslas overheating around the Nurburgring and the like.
Are they keeping their powder dry until the new M3 later this year?
Or is it that Tesla has already closed the gap between it and the current M3 even with 'proper drivers'?

The Tesla is not a competitor for M owners as it’s a completely different market. Tesla is at the cheap end of the market even at 70k I mean people that buy M cars and I don’t mean second hand don’t care about cost, tax, running costs etc it’s about a driver focused car and engineering excellence. I know 99% of people here won’t get that but again your not the target market for a new BMW M or Merc AMG.

Gumbo

TCP/IP wrote: »

The Tesla is not a competitor for M owners as it’s a completely different market. Tesla is at the cheap end of the market even at 70k I mean people that buy M cars and I don’t mean second hand don’t care about cost, tax, running costs etc it’s about a driver focused car and engineering excellence. I know 99% of people here won’t get that but again your not the target market for a new BMW M or Merc AMG.

And 99% of the population / motorists / motors forum as a whole won’t understand a word you just said also.

I think the people that put the M3 and Model 3 pitted against each other don’t understand either. Nobody out looking for an M3 will consider a Model 3 in my opinion either even if the performance is on par in every day life.

Different cars. I think the Model 3 market will be the average run of the mill 320d, Audi A4 drivers. Maybe slightly creep into the 5 series and A6 market. I’ve an F10 there and I know I’d rather a Model 3 over it but my wife wouldn’t.

TCP/IP

kceire wrote: »

And 99% of the population / motorists / motors forum as a whole won’t understand a word you just said also.

I think the people that put the M3 and Model 3 pitted against each other don’t understand either. Nobody out looking for an M3 will consider a Model 3 in my opinion either even if the performance is on par in every day life.

Different cars. I think the Model 3 market will be the average run of the mill 320d, Audi A4 drivers. Maybe slightly creep into the 5 series and A6 market. I’ve an F10 there and I know I’d rather a Model 3 over it but my wife wouldn’t.

Why would they not understand you have lost me.
Though I do agree with your comments on target market.

Nedved85

TCP/IP wrote: »

Tesla is at the cheap end of the market.

You lost me with this one

TCP/IP

Nedved85 wrote: »

You lost me with this one

Compared to an M3 which are are talking about it is.

Soarer

The Model 3 shouldn't be compared to the M3 imo.

The Model 3 is a family saloon that just happens to be ludicrously fast.
The M3 is a performance sports car aimed at a niche market.

NoBread

AidenL wrote: »

I agree. I have owned some very fast rwd cars - they aren’t much fun on a bumpy back road on a wet, windy or frosty night when 300 bhp plus gets applied. As I get older, I’m placing more value on usability and safety.

I love the BMW M cars, but things are changing.

I think the Irish appetite for getting the cheapest crap tyres possible will see some Model 3's in ditches to be honest.
Also the new M3 is likely to be AWD.

samih wrote: »

Yes. I still think that it's mad that we are comparing a four door family car (ok a hot version of it) to a BMW M3 as a track weapon. Things are changing and this is just the step one while waiting for batteries that don't need complex cooling and heating systems. But these comparisons show that the BEVs are almost there even for the edge cases.

It's not mad at all, as what you really are doing is comparing a 4-door family car with another 4-door family car. The M3 isn't a track weapon. It's exceptionally good on a track thanks to years of engineering, but it's still a performance version of a 4-door family car, exactly like the Tesla P versions.
A 911-GT3 is a track weapon. No one buys one of those just to plant the foot and go.

Silent Running

TCP/IP wrote: »

The Tesla is not a competitor for M owners as it’s a completely different market. Tesla is at the cheap end of the market even at 70k I mean people that buy M cars and I don’t mean second hand don’t care about cost, tax, running costs etc it’s about a driver focused car and engineering excellence. I know 99% of people here won’t get that but again your not the target market for a new BMW M or Merc AMG.

This is the bit that makes me smile. Timing chains or EGR coolers anyone? I think a lot of people buy into the marketing blurb to make themselves feel better. People witter on about the silky smooth straight 6 engine, which is as rough as an old dog compared to electric power.

For me, the saddest thing in motoring is hearing a clattery diesel start up on a car with AMG or M on it.

As a former AMG owner, Mercedes aren't immune to glitches either. In my experience, an RS Audi is a much better all round car than either an M BMW or an AMG Merc.

I haven't driven a Tesla yet, I'm open minded and prepared to be impressed... or not.

Gumbo

TCP/IP wrote: »

Why would they not understand you have lost me.
Though I do agree with your comments on target market.

Based on your comment that 99% of users here wouldn’t get that.

You seem To think that EV drivers here are little old men with tartan blankets and driving gloves.

Silly and condescending comment in my opinion.

samih

NoBread wrote: »

It's not mad at all, as what you really are doing is comparing a 4-door family car with another 4-door family car.

Mad as in cool. Cool that a family BEV has such a good performance and handles sufficiently well for the people to start to compare it to sporty cars like M3. Or the acceleration to properly quick cars like Dodge Hellcat and various Supercars.