Breaking - explosions at Brussels Airport **Mod warning in post 1**

Baggy Trousers

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Lets try the "5 Whys" technique to identify root cause here.

http://www.isixsigma.com/tools-templates/cause-effect/determine-root-cause-5-whys/



A lot of informed and opinionated people on this forum. Who wants to try the "5 Whys"?

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.

Why #1:

Nobody willing to try it?

Stop?Look?Listen? is the only one to provide a root cause;

"Because Mohammed did"

Not much to work with...

timmyntc

My name is URL wrote: »

Why would anyone view posts on Twitter or Facebook about an incident as 'normalising' it?

The only thing it normalises is the fact that people use Twitter and Facebook

You wouldn't say that a book of condolences normalises events. People show up, write some fawning message about how they feel and then get on with their lives. Just like they do on Twitter.

I think he means that we should not stand by and let things like this become a regular or normal occurrence in the future.

TheHillOfDoom

I'll answer your Why#1.

Because they hate us and think we are evil.

Baggy Trousers

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

I'll answer your Why#1.

Because they hate us and think we are evil.

I think that's 2 answers but you need to go to 5.

Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?

Bob24

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Simple solution, electronic tagging/gps tracking and/or house arrest. Let Technology do the work. It mightn't prevent everything, but it would help the intelligence agencies focus their work better and mean having to concentrate less on every potential jihadist.

And if the PC brigade complain they can bugger off. These jihadists are exploiting liberal European values to the max. Yes the rest of us should benefit from liberal values, but not potential terrorists. Unfortunately the Euro liberals refuse to distinguish between normal law abiding citizens and jihadists intent on mass murder. To the Euro Liberals, we are all the same.

I don't think it's very practical. Firstly, it is probably not allowed by any European country's legislation to impose this on someone just based on suspicious activities and not on actual charges (and changing these would have large implications). Secondly, telling someone they are being watched and only knowing their location might actually reduce the amount of intelligence being gathered: they will be more careful with what they do and will just delegate to someone they know isn't on the watch list.

dashdoll

I'm just astounded that the world is reacting so calmly to all of this.

Political correctness will probably be our downfall.

Just after reading that hours of video footage of surveillance on a manager of a Belgian nuclear station and of his home/routine etc was discovered in the apartment where the suicide bombers lived.

If an attack on a nuclear station were the occur in Belgium or the UK god forbid it would mean a serious loss of life here also and people living with deformities and cancers for generations to come. The implications would simply be catastrophic and it appears that very little is being done by European authorities to counter this.

Infuriating and terrifying.

conorhal

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Nobody willing to try it?

Stop?Look?Listen? is the only one to provide a root cause;



Not much to work with...

Fine, here you go, what they want, why they did it and what motivates them, all in their own words released as an official statement in the wake of the Paris attacks:

In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

Allah (ta'ala) said, They thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah but Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts so they destroyed their houses by their own hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision [Al-Hashr:2].

In a blessed battle whose causes of success were enabled by Allah, a group of believers from the soldiers of the Caliphate (may Allah strengthen and support it) set out targeting the capital of prostitution and vice, the lead carrier of the cross in Europe — Paris. This group of believers were youth who divorced the worldly life and advanced towards their enemy hoping to be killed for Allah's sake, doing so in support of His religion, His Prophet (blessing and peace be upon him), and His allies. They did so in spite of His enemies. Thus, they were truthful with Allah — we consider them so — and Allah granted victory upon their hands and cast terror into the hearts of the crusaders in their very own homeland.

And so eight brothers equipped with explosive belts and assault rifles attacked precisely chosen targets in the center of the capital of France. These targets included the Stade de France stadium during a soccer match — between the teams of Germany and France, both of which are crusader nations — attended by the imbecile of France (Francois Hollande). The targets included the Bataclan theatre for exhibitions, where hundreds of pagans gathered for a concert of prostitution and vice. There were also simultaneous attacks on other targets in the tenth, eleventh, and eighteenth districts, and elsewhere. Paris was thereby shaken beneath the crusaders' feet, who were constricted by its streets. The result of the attacks was the deaths of no less than two hundred crusaders and the wounding of even more. All praise, grace, and favor belong to Allah.

Allah blessed our brothers and granted them what they desired. They detonated their explosive belts in the masses of the disbelievers after finishing all their ammunition. We ask Allah to accept them amongst the martyrs and to allow us to follow them.

Let France and all nations following its path know that they will continue to be at the top of the target list for the Islamic State and that the scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), and as long as they boast about their war against Islam in France and their strikes against Muslims in the lands of the Caliphate with their jets, which were of no avail to them in the filthy streets and alleys of Paris. Indeed, this is just the beginning. It is also a warning for any who wish to take heed.

Allah is the greatest.

TheHillOfDoom

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I think that's 2 answers but you need to go to 5.

Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?

Because we bombed the **** out of them and the quran tells them we need to die?

testaccount123

Must be very frustrating for ISIS when they openly tell us why they are doing these things but half the population of the west are like 'ah lads its nothing to do with that aul religion at all, sure its actually our fault you are killing us'

Mod: banned for posting in thread on threadban

Baggy Trousers

conorhal wrote: »

Fine, here you go, what they want, why they did it and what motivates them, all in their own words released as an official statement in the wake of the Paris attacks:

No need to get emotional. I've read that before.

I am looking for people's opinions on root cause here.

Jesus lads, this isn't that hard! I am not asking for a kidney.

conorhal

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

No need to get emotional. I've read that before.

I am looking for people's opinions on root cause here.

Jesus lads, this isn't that hard! I am not asking for a kidney.

Who's emotional? I just answered your queston.
Peoples 'opinion' on the root cause is significantly less relevent than their opinion on what motivtes them surely?
They are an apocalyptic (that's right they believe they are heralding in the end times) death cult who think you and your western ways are the filthy whore of Babylon corrupting and standing in the way of their utopian Islamic worldwide caliphate.

Baggy Trousers

We're sucking diesel now! This is just one instance of root cause of course but it's the only one thus far so thanks.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?

Note: I omitted the Quran rulebook bit because it was incidental in context of the 3rd Why but feel free to add back in as it's own answer

TheHillOfDoom

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

We're sucking diesel now! This is just one instance of root cause of course but it's the only one thus far so thanks.

Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?

Note: I omitted the Quran rulebook bit because it was incidental in context of the 3rd Why but feel free to add back in as it's own answer

Ok, to answer the Why to #3. Because we want their oil.

Baggy Trousers

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Ok, to answer the Why to #3. Because we want their oil.

Nearly there.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?
Why #4 Answer = Because we want their oil
Why?

TheHillOfDoom

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Nearly there.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?
Why #4 Answer = Because we want their oil
Why?

Because we don't have enough of our own.

Shurimgreat

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Nearly there.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?
Why #4 Answer = Because we want their oil
Why?

Hand wringing bullsh*t like this is not going to stop these head the balls, it will just encourage them more because they can see people like you have sympathy for them and their cause.

TheHillOfDoom

And to answer the question to the next why - the answer is I DUNNO!

stoplooklisten

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Nearly there.
.........

Nearly where?

To the answers you want but claim not to have

Lol, what crap

Baggy Trousers

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Because we don't have enough of our own.

And done.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?
Why #4 Answer = Because we want their oil
Why?
Why #5 Answer = Because we don't have enough of our own

I like it. That is your perception of root cause. I cant argue with it (resources often cause conflict/war) although I might look for detail on "them/their" (e.g. who, what country).

Thanks Mr Doom.

Anyone else?

Bottom line, if we cannot establish root cause, we will not stop this.

TheHillOfDoom

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Hand wringing bullsh*t like this is not going to stop these head the balls, it will just encourage them because they can see people like you have sympathy for them and their cause.

I'm not handwringing. They certainly are not handwringing. Just chop the heads off and that's grand.

The side argument to this is the quran. It can't be ignored that they want a caliphate and that we are infidels.

JaCrispy

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Nearly there.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?
Why #4 Answer = Because we want their oil
Why?

3 and 4 are rubbish. Most jihadists have never been bombed or even been to oil rich middle east countries.

Shurimgreat

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

And done.

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer = Because they hate us
Why?
Why #2 Answer = Because they think we are evil.
Why?
Why #3 Answer = Because we bombed the shít out of them
Why?
Why #4 Answer = Because we want their oil
Why?
Why #5 Answer = Because we don't have enough of our own

I like it. That is your perception of root cause. I cant argue with it although I might look for detail on "them/their" (e.g. who, what country).

Thanks Mr Doom.

Anyone else?

Bottom line, if we cannot establish root cause, we will not stop this.

Do you remember the reason they gave for the Bataclan massacre? They said it was because the concert was a place of devil worship, or something along those lines. So its not all tied to "oil". Much of it is tied to an absolute hatred of all the west stands for. The perpetrators live in the west and have grown to hate their surroundings. They want to bend us to their will through terror.

Baggy Trousers

JaCrispy wrote: »

3 and 4 are rubbish. Most jihadists have never been bombed or even been to oil rich middle east countries.

Ok fair enough - the them/their is a bit loose - so why don't you have a go at the 5 Whys? Mr Doom was the only one brave enough to try.

stoplooklisten

If I went to Esso and filled up a 5 gallon drum of oil to give them, will they stop bombing us?

Worth a try!

TheHillOfDoom

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Do you remember the reason they gave for the Bataclan massacre? They said it was because the concert was a place of devil worship, or something along those lines. So its not all tied to "oil". Much of it is tied to an absolute hatred of all the west stands for. The perpetrators live in the west and have grown to hate their surroundings.

Well answer your own damned questions 1 to 5 then!

Baggy Trousers

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Well answer your own damned questions 1 to 5 then!

Well said Sir

Baggy Trousers

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Do you remember the reason they gave for the Bataclan massacre? They said it was because the concert was a place of devil worship, or something along those lines. So its not all tied to "oil". Much of it is tied to an absolute hatred of all the west stands for. The perpetrators live in the west and have grown to hate their surroundings. They want to bend us to their will through terror.

Why don't you give us your opinion so?

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer =
Why?
Why #2 Answer =
Why?
Why #3 Answer =
Why?
Why #4 Answer =
Why?
Why #5 Answer =

conorhal

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Why don't you give us your opinion so?

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.
Why #1 Answer =
Why?
Why #2 Answer =
Why?
Why #3 Answer =
Why?
Why #4 Answer =
Why?
Why #5 Answer =

You seem largely resistant to accepting ISIS reasoning for why ISIS do things, perhaps you should ask them to play 20 questions, but I suspect they're less interested in playing parlour games until you get the answers you think people should give then you are.

Baggy Trousers

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Hand wringing bullsh*t like this is not going to stop these head the balls, it will just encourage them more because they can see people like you have sympathy for them and their cause.

Thats nonsense. This is a well known root cause technique. There is no hand wringing.

If you're too afraid to contribute, ignore it.

Bob24

JaCrispy wrote: »

3 and 4 are rubbish. Most jihadists have never been bombed or even been to oil rich middle east countries.

It is all relative to how you define "we" and "them" in "we are bombing them".

A number young Muslims in Europe identify to middle eastern Muslims more than to their fellow citizens. In their mind "we" is the Muslim community and "them" is Western civilisation.

This will be my "why?" answer: by giving up its assimilation model for immigrants and promoting a very individualistic society whereby individualities and groups of common interests are more important than the long national community as a whole, Western civilisation has created people who feel more related to people living thousands of kilometres away than to their neighbours, with that sentiment continuing even after several generations (it is not only Muslims, but it happens that Islam has this Jihadist cancer within it whereas other groups don't currently have something similar).