Breaking - explosions at Brussels Airport **Mod warning in post 1**

CelticRambler

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

What I would like to know is how are so many of the people involved in terror attacks 'on watchlists' or 'known to the authorities'

stop 'watching', start tackling!

I think ye lot over in Ireland getting your English-language newsfeeds from the UK, America, Australia, and wherever else you've got cousins, have a rose-tinted view of what's actually going on in countries - like France (and probably Belgium too). Here, we are still technically in a State of Emergency which you might not notice on your trips to Disneyland, but it's obvious enough if you're living an ordinary life - soliders on patrol on towns the size of Macroom or Kilkee, having to pass through metal detectors and show ID when you renew your driver's license, having your bags searched on your way in to a small music festival ... and hearing about houses and flats being raided every week - several thousand since the attacks in November.

Add to that the continuing effort to contain the problem in and around Calais (don't suppose many of you have had to dodge dark-skinned, dark-clothed migrants on the unlit A16 :rolleyes: ) and the fact that one of the four police officers shot while capturing yer man in Brussels the other day was part of the French force working directly with the Belgians.

So whatever notions anyone's got about the forces of law and order "talking" too much, you're wrong; at the moment, they're working so hard at "tackling" instead of "talking" - bearing in mind that every time they break down someone's door, they're half-expecting it to be another shoot-out - they're starting to have problems with fatigue, injury and stress-related sick-leave.

Thanks for listening; I'll let you get back to your armchair haven.

(PS I'd have no qualms about taking half a dozen immigrants home with me, as long as they were prepared to help me fix my roof. I'm as much an immigrant in this country as any Arab, even if my skin's a different colour.)

lawlolawl

dissed doc wrote: »

The fact is, that there is very little chance if any of a 2nd or 3rd generation Muslim of immigrant background of ever integrating.

We know there is high marginalisation, high unemployment, little or no identification with the country of birth. The solution is early identification in schools, prevention of segregated schools and segregated communities. Basically, once there are 1% of the population Muslim, no more can live there. The idea is to prevent the numbers required to ghettoise and radicalise. That requires high concentrations of extremists that can blend into larger communities with ease.

Poor lambs.

How about if you feel you can't integrate with whatever European society you and your people have been in for 2 or 3 generations then we offer to pay for a one way ticket for you to piss off back to whatever nation you think you can integrate with?

Are our two options either to change the entire way we live to suit a handful of religious headcases or tolerate dead civilians every few months?

Why should the western world change for these lunatics? Give them ample land, resources, means of transport and leave them to have their Islamic State and it'll fail horribly inside 2 years because of infighting over what colour Mohammads beard was.

This has become a conflict in which one side or the other has to be completely irradicated for it to end. There won't be a Good Friday agreement here. The western world has the resources and means to obliterate these people now so we should just get on with it.

CelticRambler

lawlolawl wrote: »

The western world has the resources and means to obliterate these people now so we should just get on with it.

Ummm, I think you'll find the western world needs the resources that are found in the countries where "these people" have lived for centuries, and to date, hasn't been particularly generous in paying for them.

dublinman1990

It's just heartbreaking to hear that these people who died were going about their daily lives while bringing a role of duty & care to other people who needed it most. These people were just going about their daily life either by going to work, having major appointments in their day or they were trying to return home after a hard days work. They probably were never aware they that were going to be the next target to be killed by these terrorists. That is the sad story of it all.

RIP to all those died in Brussels yesterday.

There is an online book of condolence available from Foreign Ministry in Belgium for those who want to send their sympathies on their website.

http://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/condolences.jsp

dav3

dav3 wrote: »

There are nearly 4 million of them out there. If we get our act together we could get the pick of the bunch.

If we put them through rigorous screening, take the ones that won't be a drain on society or follow Islam, it should add up to a good few thousand.

We may not have any legal obligation to take them, yet. But it's the right thing to do. How many would you take in?

Honestly, I don't want the pick of the bunch.
I don't want any of them.

Its not racist, its not xenophobic. It is a desire to preserve our identity.
If I thought they would assimilate, integrate well and contribute to society I would have no qualms...
But I am just not convinced they will and I personally don't think we should take a punt on them.

I'm taking this stance for my kids, so they can grow up and enjoy the European way of life as it is now in Ireland.

Is that selfish? Of course it is. But self preservation is a very basic human instinct.

GT_TDI_150

CelticRambler wrote: »

I think ye lot over in Ireland getting your English-language newsfeeds from the UK, America, Australia, and wherever else you've got cousins, have a rose-tinted view of what's actually going on in countries - like France (and probably Belgium too). Here, we are still technically in a State of Emergency which you might not notice on your trips to Disneyland, but it's obvious enough if you're living an ordinary life - soliders on patrol on towns the size of Macroom or Kilkee, having to pass through metal detectors and show ID when you renew your driver's license, having your bags searched on your way in to a small music festival ... and hearing about houses and flats being raided every week - several thousand since the attacks in November.

Add to that the continuing effort to contain the problem in and around Calais (don't suppose many of you have had to dodge dark-skinned, dark-clothed migrants on the unlit A16 :rolleyes: ) and the fact that one of the four police officers shot while capturing yer man in Brussels the other day was part of the French force working directly with the Belgians.

So whatever notions anyone's got about the forces of law and order "talking" too much, you're wrong; at the moment, they're working so hard at "tackling" instead of "talking" - bearing in mind that every time they break down someone's door, they're half-expecting it to be another shoot-out - they're starting to have problems with fatigue, injury and stress-related sick-leave.

Thanks for listening; I'll let you get back to your armchair haven.

(PS I'd have no qualms about taking half a dozen immigrants home with me, as long as they were prepared to help me fix my roof. I'm as much an immigrant in this country as any Arab, even if my skin's a different colour.)

Mate,

I might be living in Ireland but get 90% of my news from Belgian media when it comes to European affairs (as it is really noticeable on more trivial things that Irish media can sometimes be a day or more behind) ... I also have family in the Gendarmes in Belgium when reading between the lines get fairly accurate info of whet they are at .... (thankfully not the same person that shared the teacher story )

stoplooklisten

No trains to and from maastricht, cancelled for the moment

FalconGirl

bilston wrote: »

Panorama is proving a real eye opener here. It's pretty clear the actual attacks that have occurred are the tip of the iceberg. In the last 12 months alone a number of attacks have been foiled or have gone wrong in France and the U.K.

Merkels immigration policy is the perfect trojan horse for terrorists. I'd say ISIS can't believe their luck at the ease of entering the European system.

GT_TDI_150

stoplooklisten wrote: »

No trains to and from maastricht, cancelled for the moment

Anything more on this?

stoplooklisten

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Anything more on this?

UnConfirmed - Reportedly man shouting, em "AA" with suitcase in station

cops gone in with heavy guns. Whole place sealed off




http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/station-maastricht-ontruimd-treinverkeer-ligt-stil~a4268970/
Station evacuated Maastricht, rail traffic is stopped

By order of the police all the train and bus traffic and stopped to Maastricht. It's Wednesday night at the station held a man standing with a suspicious suitcase. That case is now being investigated by specialists, said a police spokeswoman.

inforfun

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Anything more on this?

Guy with a "suspicious" suitcase currently being investigated.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1012/Nederland/article/detail/4268993/2016/03/23/Geen-treinverkeer-rond-Maastricht-om-koffer.dhtml

eug87

pretty good point from the guardian comments section.

"Lets all stop talking about hashtags, flowers and gestures; they're lovely, but these attacks are becoming so common, that there's not a Twitter 'thing' that you do, and Facebook has safety checks and the flag for profile pictures.

This situation is not something that should be normalised.

How many more attacks will it take for everyone to actually do something tangible about it?"

The normalisation of these attacks is very worrying , what happened yesterday or 6 months ago is not just as worrying as what will happen in 5 , 10 or 20 years from now.
Maybe wishful thinking on my part to see a balance in for all our kids in a multicultural society but I see a polar swift to right as the leaders today seem to be toothless regarding how Islam is integrated into western world , is it possible to integrate Islam into western society without offence to each other ways , will it work and what will it take to stop all this finger pointing from all sides.

These are the questions that will remain unanswered because there seems to be nobody strong enough to ask them either be it EU or Country.Very hard times ahead.

thattequilagirl

FalconGirl wrote: »

Merkels immigration policy is the perfect trojan horse for terrorists. I'd say ISIS can't believe their luck at the ease of entering the European system.

Once again - since these attacks are happening at the hands of Belgian citizens, there's no reason to believe the refugee crisis has had anything to do with these attacks.

stefanovich

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Once again - since these attacks are happening at the hands of Belgian citizens, there's no reason to believe the refugee crisis has had anything to do with these attacks.

Apart of course from the fact that the same people that created the refugee crisis in the first place are the same people who carried out the attacks.

But apart from that no connection at all. They were a proud flemish family with deep historical ties to Belgium and a feverish sense of national pride.

Collie D

None of the politicians you mentioned could be described as anywhere near "hard left".

Bob24

CelticRambler wrote: »

I think ye lot over in Ireland getting your English-language newsfeeds from the UK, America, Australia, and wherever else you've got cousins, have a rose-tinted view of what's actually going on in countries - like France (and probably Belgium too). Here, we are still technically in a State of Emergency which you might not notice on your trips to Disneyland, but it's obvious enough if you're living an ordinary life - soliders on patrol on towns the size of Macroom or Kilkee, having to pass through metal detectors and show ID when you renew your driver's license, having your bags searched on your way in to a small music festival ... and hearing about houses and flats being raided every week - several thousand since the attacks in November.

Add to that the continuing effort to contain the problem in and around Calais (don't suppose many of you have had to dodge dark-skinned, dark-clothed migrants on the unlit A16 :rolleyes: ) and the fact that one of the four police officers shot while capturing yer man in Brussels the other day was part of the French force working directly with the Belgians.

So whatever notions anyone's got about the forces of law and order "talking" too much, you're wrong; at the moment, they're working so hard at "tackling" instead of "talking" - bearing in mind that every time they break down someone's door, they're half-expecting it to be another shoot-out - they're starting to have problems with fatigue, injury and stress-related sick-leave.

Thanks for listening; I'll let you get back to your armchair haven.

(PS I'd have no qualms about taking half a dozen immigrants home with me, as long as they were prepared to help me fix my roof. I'm as much an immigrant in this country as any Arab, even if my skin's a different colour.)

To go back to the post you quoted:

Originally Posted by GT_TDI_150 View Post
What I would like to know is how are so many of the people involved in terror attacks 'on watchlists' or 'known to the authorities'

stop 'watching', start tackling!

There are 20000 people on the intelligence services watch list in France and representatives of the police have been quoted many times saying it takes 20 full time policemen and analysts to properly monitor one person's activity 24/7 without beeing noticed, meaning it would take 400000 staff to actually monitor everyone on that list. They clearly don't have that so forget about preemptive actions, in many cases they wouldn't even know when and where to act. They have to make calls on a small subset which seems the most dangerous and focus on these individuals, which will always let some bad guys through the net (pretty much all attackers in France in the past few years were on the list but not monitored).

I have no doubt the police and intelligence services are doing all they can, but it's obviously not enough and the threat will keep increasing. Politicians need to recognise it and 1) short term, beef-up the police 2) ask tough questions about what is wrong in European societies/countries and how to stop producing this these people in the long term

inforfun

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Once again - since these attacks are happening at the hands of Belgian citizens, there's no reason to believe the refugee crisis has had anything to do with these attacks.

While it is quite certain they had found other ways to go up and down to ISIS territory, Fraulein Merkels idiocy made it a lot easier for these ***** to come back.
One of the Paris suspects stated that he and 90 others had been coming back to France that way in 1 go.
Over 1 million came into Europe in the last 6 months of last year.
Do you dare to estimate how many of these kind of clown have been hiding and travelling amongst them?

tigger123

Bob24 wrote: »

To go back to the post you quoted:



There are 20000 people on the intelligence services watch list in France and representatives of the police have been quoted many times saying it takes 20 full time policemen and analysts to properly monitor one person's activity 24/7 withings beeing not over, meaning it would take 400000 staff to actually monitor everyone on that list. They clearly don't have that so they are not a ally even watching everyone. They have to make calls on a small subset which seems the most dangerous and focus on these, which will always let some bad guys through the net (pretty much all stackers in Framce in the past few years were on the list but not monitored).

Resources are a hugely important point for all police services across Europe. The local police chief in Malonbeek said on the news last night that he had 200 empty posts in his area alone. That's 200 officers that could be policing in the community trying to nip these things in the bud and fighting against the signs of radicalization at an early stage.

inforfun

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeSyYHgWsAAccjZ.jpg

Ibi El Bakraoui

October 2010: Sentenced to prison for 9 years (armed robbery, shooting at police with a kalshnikov)

2014: Despite advice against it, released early......

June 2015: Arrested at the Turkish- Syrian border > Turkey sent him on the plane to The Netherlands with a note that he is a ISIS supporter.

Later in 2015: released because Belgium had no proff he did indeed have ties to ISIS (right.. because who doesnt go on a holiday to Syria in 2015???)

March 22 2016: We know what he did.


And the people responsible will look very surprised, very worried and **** all will change.

Bob24

tigger123 wrote: »

Resources are a hugely important point for all police services across Europe. The local police chief in Malonbeek said on the news last night that he had 200 empty posts in his area alone. That's 200 officers that could be policing in the community trying to nip these things in the bud and fighting against the signs of radicalization at an early stage.

For sure - but I really think it should only be seen as a short term solution. No one likes a society where the only way to maintain order and provide safety to citizens is heavy police presence and restrictions on civil liberties.

Europeans need stop saying terrorist are nut cases which have nothing to do with Islam or with the way European societies have evolved (to create individuals who hate their own country and are ready to kill their fellow citizens for that very reason). Reacting like commenter who are completely disconnected and have no responsibility is comfortable, but does not reflect the truth.

Eugene Norman

inforfun wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeSyYHgWsAAccjZ.jpg

Ibi El Bakraoui

October 2010: Sentenced to prison for 9 years (armed robbery, shooting at police with a kalshnikov)

2014: Despite advice against it, released early......

June 2015: Arrested at the Turkish- Syrian border > Turkey sent him on the plane to The Netherlands with a note that he is a ISIS supporter.

Later in 2015: released because Belgium had no proff he did indeed have ties to ISIS (right.. because who doesnt go on a holiday to Syria in 2015???)

March 22 2016: We know what he did.


And the people responsible will look very surprised, very worried and **** all will change.

4 years for armed robbery? The parole board need to be fired.

tigger123

Bob24 wrote: »

For sure - but I really think it should only be seen as a short term solution. No one likes a society where the only way to maintain order and provide safety to citizens is heavy police presence and restrictions on civil liberties.

Europeans need stop saying terrorist are nut cases which have nothing to do with Islam or with the way European societies have evolved (to create individuals who hate their own country and are ready to kill their fellow citizens for that very reason). Reacting like commenter who are completely disconnected and have no responsibility is comfortable, but does not reflect the truth.

I think a balance is required between better funded and equipped intelligence and security services, and community policing, as in police officers who are a part of the community, and trusted and supported by its inhabitants. I'm not talking about Jack Bauer types on every corner.

A positive relationship between the community at large and the police force.

Polo_Mint

Gardaí are to take up an overt armed presence at Dublin Airport and Dublin Port for the first time in the face of growing concern about the threat posed by international terrorist groups.

It is understood the new Regional Support Unit (RSU) for the capital will be tasked with, among other things, providing a visible armed presence at both facilities.

It means Garda members wearing Swat-style uniforms and carrying high-velocity weapons will be on duty in and around the airport and port campuses and inside terminal buildings.

There is currently no armed presence at either the airport or port in Dublin. This has been a cause of growing unease in security and political circles.


The Special Detective Unit and Emergency Response Unit (ERU) have always been the first line of response in the event of any major incident, but neither unit has a presence in the port or airport.

Plans for a Dublin RSU were being drawn up long before this week’s attacks in Brussels.
Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald unveiled plans for the unit during last month’s feuding between gangland factions, but the project’s inception dates back to last year.

The internal recruitment process within the Garda for places in the unit has just closed.
There are already other RSUs based in the regions.

It is understood the possibility of using the Dublin RSU at the port and airport had been under consideration before Tuesday’s attacks.

But senior sources said the final decision to press ahead with the plan emerged after a meeting yesterday morning at Garda Headquarters in the Phoenix Park in Dublin.

The terrorist strike in Brussels means international airports, rather than just the flights in and out of them, are now seen as targets for further atrocities.

And while the likelihood of an attack in Ireland is no higher than it was before this week, the lack of an armed Garda presence has been brought into focus.

The Dublin RSU will conduct a variety of other tasks such as responding to armed incidents and patrolling in gangland flashpoints.

Irish Times

12Phase

The issue in Belgium tends to be local police are largely locally funded. (There are 196 police forces).

So, you can get into a vicious cycle of lack of local tax causing lack of funding and areas sink into lack of services, including police.

It's a major problem that's relatively specific to Belgium.

KERSPLAT!

Closed for review

Boom_Bap

Thread is being re-opened.
To re-iterate, this is a thread on the incidents in Brussels the other day. It is not a thread on immigration, there have been a few cautions and bans issued on the back of the mod warnings being ignored.

stoplooklisten

2 men believed to be on the run


man in white coat from airport
2nd bomber allegedly seen in company of metro bomber at metro


eh is this ok here


Now British ISIS fighters threaten Heathrow and Downing Street in chilling video celebrating Brussels terror attacks
Masked men recorded laughing about the terror attacks which killed 34
They warn Downing Street, and Gatwick and Heathrow airports will be next
The men, none of whom can be identified, speak with British street accents


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3507569/Now-British-ISIS-fighters-threaten-Heathrow-Downing-Street-chilling-video-celebrating-Brussels-terror-attacks.html

Shurimgreat

Bob24 wrote: »

To go back to the post you quoted:



There are 20000 people on the intelligence services watch list in France and representatives of the police have been quoted many times saying it takes 20 full time policemen and analysts to properly monitor one person's activity 24/7 without beeing noticed, meaning it would take 400000 staff to actually monitor everyone on that list. They clearly don't have that so forget about preemptive actions, in many cases they wouldn't even know when and where to act. They have to make calls on a small subset which seems the most dangerous and focus on these individuals, which will always let some bad guys through the net (pretty much all attackers in France in the past few years were on the list but not monitored).

I have no doubt the police and intelligence services are doing all they can, but it's obviously not enough and the threat will keep increasing. Politicians need to recognise it and 1) short term, beef-up the police 2) ask tough questions about what is wrong in European societies/countries and how to stop producing this these people in the long term

Simple solution, electronic tagging/gps tracking and/or house arrest. Let Technology do the work. It mightn't prevent everything, but it would help the intelligence agencies focus their work better and mean having to concentrate less on every potential jihadist.

And if the PC brigade complain they can bugger off. These jihadists are exploiting liberal European values to the max. Yes the rest of us should benefit from liberal values, but not potential terrorists. Unfortunately the Euro liberals refuse to distinguish between normal law abiding citizens and jihadists intent on mass murder. To the Euro Liberals, we are all the same.

stoplooklisten

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3507638/Turkey-releases-picture-Brussels-airport-terrorist-grinning-mugshot-reveals-sent-Belgium-TWICE.html


Turkey deported this guy twice and warned us

The dutch and the belgians let him go

Why did they let him go?



Twice, this is farcical

Baggy Trousers

Lets try the "5 Whys" technique to identify root cause here.

http://www.isixsigma.com/tools-templates/cause-effect/determine-root-cause-5-whys/

By repeatedly asking the question “Why” (five is a good rule of thumb), you can peel away the layers of symptoms which can lead to the root cause of a problem. Very often the ostensible reason for a problem will lead you to another question. Although this technique is called “5 Whys,” you may find that you will need to ask the question fewer or more times than five before you find the issue related to a problem.

A lot of informed and opinionated people on this forum. Who wants to try the "5 Whys"?

Problem Statement: Islamic jihadists are bombing civilian targets in Europe.

Why #1: