Car Incident. Need advice

SteelyDanJalapeno

It's not as basic as incorrect lanes thou, if I'm on a roundabout and I know someones in a wrong, does that mean I can turn straight into them to prove a point?

You still need to be careful when switching lanes.

emeldc

mickdw wrote: »

The most critical point here is that you cannot drive right around the outside of a roundabout when taking the exit the op was taking. Doing that guarantees that you will have several near misses.
You couldn't pay me enough to drive around the outside of a roundabout like that. I would be just waiting for the smash.

And you're right, but the OP was indicating right which should have told the blue car driving up behind that he definitely wasn't turning left like she was. I think she was driving more carelessly than the OP. A little more care and she could have tucked in behind him and made her left turn.

bucketybuck

I know that roundabout extremely well, and the OP is very much in the wrong.

The lady in blue went around the roundabout and then exited at her exit, she was in the correct lane and she does not need to switch lanes while on the roundabout to prepare for the upcoming exit. She simply needs to follow the roundabout around and then exit, she did so. She does need to ensure her path is clear and her failure to do so was a contribution, but the incident would not have occurred if the OP knew how to use a roundabout.

Thousands of cars every week will do exactly what "blue" did without a problem, unless they happen to meet the person wrongly going past an exit in the outside lane.

OP, a rule of thumb worth remembering, you should never really be passing an exit on a roundabout in the outside lane. If you are in the outside lane you should be leaving at the next exit, if you try to pass that exit you will be cutting across the exit path of a car attempting to reach it.

Turtle_

Eh, OP is definitely to blame here. How on earth did you not see her, OP? You can't even go so fast around that roundabout that someone wouldn't see you. There are two exit lanes to the ramp onto the M50 (straight through), if you join that roundabout from the Balinteer Road (road at the top on the OP's pic that goes under the M50) you very often don't have any opportunity to move left because of people joining the left lane where the OP did.

The other driver had a lapse in concentration, or perhaps the OP's indicators weren't visible and maybe due to an unfamiliar car wasn't aware of that. We don't know, but yes, there is some small apportionment of blame to the other driver. But the majority clearly lies with the OP for being in the un-questionably incorrect lane and not knowing the basics of how to use a roundabout, AND not bringing someone with him who does know how to use a roundabout.

We only have one side of the story here: that of an unlicensed driver who doesn't know how to use a roundabout and who also clearly has problems with observation whilst driving. OP doesn't know where the other car came from. Car could have been in his blind spot all along (and possibly out of view of his indicator).


ETA: Dunno why we have someone speculating that she was also uninsured because she was driving her father's car (I say also, OP, because chances are you violated the terms of your insurance by driving alone). She very possibly has drive any car insurance, or her dad has open drive, or she's named on his policy (lots and lots of people named on all cars in a household!)

KERSPLAT!

Turtle_ wrote: »

Eh, OP is definitely to blame here. How on earth did you not see her, OP? You can't even go so fast around that roundabout that someone wouldn't see you. There are two exit lanes to the ramp onto the M50 (straight through), if you join that roundabout from the Balinteer Road (road at the top on the OP's pic that goes under the M50) you very often don't have any opportunity to move left because of people joining the left lane where the OP did.

The other driver had a lapse in concentration, or perhaps the OP's indicators weren't visible and maybe due to an unfamiliar car wasn't aware of that. We don't know, but yes, there is some small apportionment of blame to the other driver. But the majority clearly lies with the OP for being in the un-questionably incorrect lane and not knowing the basics of how to use a roundabout, AND not bringing someone with him who does know how to use a roundabout.

We only have one side of the story here: that of an unlicensed driver who doesn't know how to use a roundabout and who also clearly has problems with observation whilst driving. OP doesn't know where the other car came from. Car could have been in his blind spot all along (and possibly out of view of his indicator).


ETA: Dunno why we have someone speculating that she was also uninsured because she was driving her father's car (I say also, OP, because chances are you violated the terms of your insurance by driving alone). She very possibly has drive any car insurance, or her dad has open drive, or she's named on his policy (lots and lots of people named on all cars in a household!)

Libertewhite wrote: »

Okay, I was in the wrong lane. My bad. What are my options? If she asks for cash and not to go with insurance, I'd prefer that route. I just hope she doesn't take me to the cleaners.

Calm the jets like, the OP already admitted to being in the wrong lane and being in the wrong.

TheChizler

bucketybuck wrote: »

OP, a rule of thumb worth remembering, you should never really be passing an exit on a roundabout in the outside lane. If you are in the outside lane you should be leaving at the next exit, if you try to pass that exit you will be cutting across the exit path of a car attempting to reach it.

That's not usually the case at all. The general rule is left lane for first and second exit, unless markings specify otherwise. While that's clear on a normal roundabout with exits at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock, here it's not so clear as there is no 9 o'clock exit. Going by that rule the OP would have been correct when they came on to the roundabout, as they were taking the second exit. The markings however later indicate that the left lane exits at exit 1, which goes against the convention of a standard roundabout, and it's a little unfair as you couldn't know this without local knowledge.

While the above is the general rule of thumb, there is only one law regarding roundabouts, that you go clockwise basically. Otherwise they're just very curved roads. So technically you can go from whatever lane you want to whatever exit you want, provided you change lanes safely and don't cut into other people's lanes.

It's an awkward one, and understandably confusing. The only clear cut thing to take from this is to always indicate your intention and change lanes carefully.

Nuw

Your insurance will most likely not even ask you if you were alone in the car when it happens. If you have NCB protection, it might not be as bad as it seems.

Do make sure you have her policy details.

Just mention to your insurance that you're trying your best to resolve the issue without having to go through them, wait for her to get back to you with a quote.

If you deem this too expensive for you, just file the claim, the insurance companies will sort it themselves.

Edit: that's why you pay them in the first place

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

If someone leaves their lane and hits me on a roundabout, I'm assuming they are wrong irrespective of which lane I "should" be in. Even if they are in the more correct lane, they still do not have the right to cut across me.

Nope, the OP actually left his lane to cut across the other car that was going straight ahead. As she was entitled to do.

EndaHonesty

TheChizler wrote: »

That's not usually the case at all. The general rule is left lane for first and second exit, unless markings specify otherwise.

This is the reason people don't know how to use roundabouts. They make up their own "general rules". :rolleyes:

Can you provide a link to somewhere, anywhere, that mentions exit numbers as a means to understanding roundabout use?

Nuw

Also before you call your insurance to let them know (which is most likely a requirement from your contract anyway), make notes of everything you can remember from the incident, make sure you have every details you can remember (for exemple, did you signal properly... that kind of things).

Again, do not accept liability, just state the facts.

Don't mention anything unnecessary unless specifically asked for (for instance that you were driving alone).

Again, wait before you actually file the claim to see if she gets back to you.

As to who's responsible should you have to go the insurance route, they'll sort it out between them.

Hope this helps.

TheChizler

EndaHonesty wrote: »

This is the reason people don't know how to use roundabouts. They make up their own "general rules".

Can you provide a link to anywhere that mentions exit numbers as a means to understanding roundabout use?

I did say it was a rule of thumb. RSA uses position on a clock face, many instructors, and most roundabouts in practice, use the number system. As I said there's no law so just be careful and change lanes carefully.

In the above example, by law neither car was prohibited from being where they were (normal practice might dictate otherwise but what's normal for one person might not be normal for someone else), and it's not clear who hit who, so I would guess 50:50 liability. If as the OP says the other car was going faster, and if they were themselves indicating right, I'd put more fault on the other car as they should have expected the OP's car to continue round the roundabout.

Edit: Technically there's no difference between the roundabout exit and this expertly drawn illustration:



So apart from conventions that aren't written in stone and vary from roundabout to roundabout, it's highly ambiguous what you should do if you're in the right lane and want to go left or left lane and want to go right, and dangerous when you get two people at the same time trying to do both. Safest thing to do is stay in the left for going left and right for going right.

EndaHonesty

TheChizler wrote: »

I did say it was a rule of thumb. RSA uses position on a clock face, many instructors, and most roundabouts in practice, use the number system. As I said there's no law so just be careful and change lanes carefully.

So now it's not a "general rule" but a "rule of thumb"?! lol

Please provide a link to back up your "number system".

TheChizler

EndaHonesty wrote: »

So now it's not a "general rule" but a "rule of thumb"?! lol

Please provide a link to back up your "number system".

Is there a difference? I'm not claiming it's something set in stone anywhere?

Anyway the main point I was addressing was this:

If you are in the outside lane you should be leaving at the next exit

Which is untrue for the majority of roundabouts.

Mycroft H

Is there any road markings, these will supersede any number/clock system.

Senna

Nuw wrote: »

Your insurance will most likely not even ask you if you were alone in the car when it happens. If you have NCB protection, it might not be as bad as it seems.

Learner driver in an accident, It will definitely be asked

TheChizler

Mycroft H wrote: »

Is there any road markings, these will supersede any number/clock system.

Nothing, no signage indicating what to do either. It's a nightmare I'd say unless you knew it and knew what most people do.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.270513,-6.2425657,175m/data=!3m1!1e3

CarrickMcJoe

The driver first on the roundabout (even if in the wrong lane) has the right to exit it safely. OP in the right imo.

cml387

When these roundabout threads crop up (and boy do they crop up) I always think of any 'Murican reading this and saying "Now you see why we don't have roundabouts!"

Essentially roundabouts are marginally-controlled chaos where self preservation is the only safe method of negotiating them.

Nuw

Senna wrote: »

Learner driver in an accident, It will definitely be asked

Actually, I was involved in an incident myself with L plates and insurance never ever asked if I was alone in the car or not. Mind you, that was a few years back, they might have updated their ways since then.

TheChizler

cml387 wrote: »

When these roundabout threads crop up (and boy do they crop up) I always think of any 'Murican reading this and saying "Now you see why we don't have roundabouts!"

Essentially roundabouts are marginally-controlled chaos where self preservation is the only safe method of negotiating them.

Come to think of it I have a recollection that talk of roundabouts is banned, did I just imagine it? Can't see it in the charter. Understandable IMO.

lawred2

Libertewhite wrote: »

So here is my dilemma:




I'm the red lines. Other person is blue dots.

I went on to the roundabout at the turn before the dots. (Where the red lines start)
When I went on to the roundabout, there was nobody else on it. I couldn't see anybody going from my right and there was nobody in front of me. Blue line was not there, thus the blue question mark.
Anyway.

I was indicating right, to follow the yellow lines. If I had managed to get to the yellow spot, I would indicate to go left.
So, this blue car comes speeding around the roundabout and cuts into me. Both of the sides of our cars clash. My right side and her left hand side.

We both got out, asked her if she was okay, she asked if I was okay, etc. Then she said I was in the fault. I said she was in the fault, then she said I was definitely in the fault again and I said sorry. She asked for my details, I gave them. I asked her for her details and she didn't respond. Not sure if she fobbed me off or didn't hear me. All I got was her name, number and licence plate.

She was being really nice and she said she was in shock. I was in shock, too.
When we were parting ways, she said she would get cost to fix and contact me later.

She said she was in an incident last week with her own car and police were involved. (Hit and run). Blue car was her dads car.
I'm a learner driver with L plates up. I have tax and insurance both in date. I didn't have anyone accompany me as I was driving.

What should I do? I can't think straight and I'm shaking.

you were in the outside lane going right by the looks of it??

if I'm right

you are badly at fault

lawred2

emeldc wrote: »

She (blue) was going left and should have been in the left lane

no.. she could have come on at the point that the op was trying to exit

she would have been in the right hand lane and indicating left to change out

op cut across her because he/she was in the wrong lane

EndaHonesty

TheChizler wrote: »

Is there a difference? I'm not claiming it's something set in stone anywhere?

Anyway the main point I was addressing was this:

Which is untrue for the majority of roundabouts.

You shouldn't be talking about roundabout use because you clearly don't know how to use them!

If you are in the outside lane of course you should be using the next exit.
Otherwise you're going to be crossing the exit in the wrong lane.
Just as the OP was.

emeldc

.........

TheChizler

EndaHonesty wrote: »

You shouldn't be talking about roundabout use because you clearly don't know how to use them!

If you are in the outside lane of course you should be using the next exit.
Otherwise you're going to be crossing the exit in the wrong lane.
Just as the OP was.

I haven't told you how I use roundabouts, just talked about the law and technicalities, so no need to speculate about me.

In that case you're contradicting the RSA's own guidelines for going straight ahead, which were quoted above somewhere.

emeldc

TheChizler wrote: »

I haven't told you how I use roundabouts, just talked about the law and technicalities, so no need to speculate about me.

In that case you're contradicting the RSA's own guidelines for going straight ahead, which were quoted above somewhere.

Yep, if you were to follow this, the OP is in the clear as I see it.

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

TheHillOfDoom

If the blue car came onto the roundabout at the top of the pic she was in the correct lane, but should obviously not have tipped into you. You only take the left lane when you're taking the first /next exit. You were in the incorrect lane. However, she was clearly trying to exit where the collision occurred? Both at fault really.

EndaHonesty

TheChizler wrote: »

I haven't told you how I use roundabouts, just talked about the law and technicalities, so no need to speculate about me.

In that case you're contradicting the RSA's own guidelines for going straight ahead, which were quoted above somewhere.

Of course you're right, using the actual "general rule" or as the book calls it, the "golden rule" if you are exiting between 6 o'clock or 12 o'clock you can be in the left lane.

Mea culpa.

EndaHonesty

emeldc wrote: »

Yep, if you were to follow this, the OP is in the clear as I see it.

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

That video is not relevant to the OP as the roundabout in the video has no lanes.
The roundabout in the OP has defined lanes.

Libertewhite

Update: I was just on the phone to my insurance company. Took the advice and just told them, even if the other party doesn't claim against me there is no harm in just informing them. Gave them details and they put it on the back burner in case needed.

Woman on the phone said, "This is a really tough call and we would need some time to figure it out". Let us know if the other driver rings you. If you are unsure about the money they are asking for, ring us and we will get our mechanic out to assess the damage."

She didn't ask if I had a fully licensed driver with me.