Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Car Incident. Need advice

Options
1…567810

Comments

  • Options
    #272
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Its like you have ignored every point raised in this thread in your crusade to blame the lady in the OP.

    Not at all ........


  • Options
    #273
    obriendj
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭obriendj


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    Folks, look at the white car in this video. This is basically what our OP did. The only difference in the roundabout is there is no exit at 9 o clock.

    She was completely in the wrong and should not go past the 12 o clock exit in the left lane. Simple as.

    http://youtu.be/NNZEm320uzM

    I think this is a significant difference.

    if there are 2 incoming lanes and there are 3 exits as there is in the video then (unless stated otherwise) the left lane is for exit 1 and 2 while the right lane is exit 2 and 3. The learner driver in this video was completely wrong using the left lane for exit 3.

    However in the OPs description there are only 2 exits with 2 incoming lanes which means (unless otherwise stated with road arrows) the left lane is for the first exit and the right lane is for the 2nd exit.

    The OP took the left lane to take the second exit - this as stated before is incorrect and the OP is at fault.

    - The Other driver may have come on via the same incoming lane in the right lane and took the first exit - then she is partially at fault.
    - She may have came from right lane in the previous entrance and went to take the second exit, which is correct. then she is not at fault


  • Options
    #274
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,122 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Re-read the Op again .........

    The car in the video has a big sign on the roof stating that the vehicle is from a driving school, that the driver is a learner and not qualified for the road. The OP has some L plates.

    But then you already know this. Enjoy whatever point you think you are making.


  • Options
    #275
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    They shouldn't have had to stop is the point, it defeats the purpose of a roundabout!

    The OP is completely culpable here.

    You can't blame a drivers slow reaction for someone else's bad driving skills!

    It's like blaming a victim for not moving out of the way of a speeding bullet ffs!!!

    Oh, hyperbole, quality discussion technique.

    It's not slow reactions. It's not anticipating that there could possibly be anybody on your left when you're on the right-hand lane of a roundabout. That's basic due care on a roundabout. As I've said before, the only assumption that you should make when driving is that everybody else on the road has the potential to do idiotic things.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Who said she was completely blameless?

    You should be more bemused by the idiots who think the OP did nothing wrong.

    I've not seen anybody say that - or maybe I've assumed that much. OP clearly in the wrong lane. That doesn't mean that anybody can crash into him/her for the craic as it's the OP's initial mistake.


  • Options
    #276
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    The car in the video has a big sign on the roof stating that the vehicle is from a driving school, that the driver is a learner and not qualified for the road. The OP has some L plates.

    But then you already know this. Enjoy whatever point you think you are making.

    L-Plates are how we identify Learner Drivers on the road, it's a legal requirement so we can all exercise due care and attention (as we all should do all of the time anyway) when we encounter "new" drivers ......... if the other driver didn't see the L-Plates then she wasn't being an observant driver.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #277
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,122 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    theteal wrote: »
    I've not seen anybody say that - or maybe I've assumed that much.
    More than a few have, just a quick search gives me:
    OldmanMondeo wrote: »
    Really can't believe that people are still trying to lay blame at the OP for this accident.
    TheChizler wrote: »
    but the OP didn't act illegally, they went against a local convention.

    And then we have one poster determined to go straight to blaming the victim, those are the people you should be worried about on our roads.


  • Options
    #278
    obriendj
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭obriendj


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    L-Plates are how we identify Learner Drivers on the road, it's a legal requirement so we can all exercise due care and attention (as we all should do all of the time anyway) when we encounter "new" drivers ......... if the other driver didn't see the L-Plates then she wasn't being an observant driver.

    She might have seen the L Plate but also seen that the OP was in the car on their own. Seeing that she may have said to herself that driver must not be a learner as that would be illegal and expected the OP to drive as an experienced driver who has passed their test with at least 2 years experience (as there is no N plate)


  • Options
    #279
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Jaysus.. 270-odd posts and still arguing over who was at fault.

    As I said a few days ago, it's very simple - The OP was.. they were exiting beyond 180 degrees (straight ahead) and therefore should have been in the right lane. This nonsense about "left lane for first and 2nd exits" ASSUMES that the first exit is at 90 degrees (left) but ironically I think the confusion/argument here is because the RSA have oversimplified it in their attempt to get the message across.

    Also the advance signage clearly indicates the exits and where they are. Bottom line is that if the OP had been in the correct lane the incident wouldn't have happened.

    But my god it's scary to read how many people think you can drive on around in the left lane because of the above notion about first and second exits.


  • Options
    #280
    TJJP
    Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭TJJP


    Traffic signs and roadway markings are divided into three broad categories: Regulatory, Warning, and Information.

    Information signs: As their name suggests, these signs give information about directions and
    distances from your current location.


  • Options
    #281
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Jaysus.. 270-odd posts and still arguing over who was at fault.

    Asd I said a few days ago, it's very simple - The OP was.. they were exiting beyond 180 degrees (straight ahead) and therefore should have been in the right lane. This nonsense about "left lane for first and 2nd exits" ASSUMES that the first exit is at 90 degrees (left) but the same principle holds. Ironically the confusion /argument here is because the RSA have oversimplified it in their attempt to get the message across I think.

    Also the advance signage clearly indicates the exits and where they are. Bottom line is that if the OP had been in the correct lane the incident wouldn't have happened.

    But my god it's scary to read how many people think you can drive on around in the left lane because of the above notion about first and second exits.


    Left lane for exits 1 and 2 and right for other exits is not nonsense it is simplle to understand. The 180 degree thing just cause confusion where there would be none if things were left as they were.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #282
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Jaysus.. 270-odd posts and still arguing over who was at fault.

    As I said a few days ago, it's very simple - The OP was.. they were exiting beyond 180 degrees (straight ahead) and therefore should have been in the right lane. This nonsense about "left lane for first and 2nd exits" ASSUMES that the first exit is at 90 degrees (left) but ironically I think the confusion/argument here is because the RSA have oversimplified it in their attempt to get the message across.

    Also the advance signage clearly indicates the exits and where they are. Bottom line is that if the OP had been in the correct lane the incident wouldn't have happened.

    But my god it's scary to read how many people think you can drive on around in the left lane because of the above notion about first and second exits.
    +1

    Just because there's no exit at 9 o'clock doesn't mean the OP can carry onto the second exit at 3 o'clock.

    On a two lane roundabout the OP can exit on the first two exits within the first two quadrants of the roundabout.

    Anything after the second exit is dangerous as the OP has to cut across people exiting from the inner lane which they're entitled to do.


  • Options
    #283
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    obriendj wrote: »
    She might have seen the L Plate but also seen that the OP was in the car on their own. Seeing that she may have said to herself that driver must not be a learner as that would be illegal and expected the OP to drive as an experienced driver who has passed their test with at least 2 years experience (as there is no N plate)

    To be honest, and I think you may have made this point already yourself, I treat every other driver (learner or not) on the road as a potential hazard ........ it's just best practice safety-wise.


  • Options
    #284
    obriendj
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭obriendj


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    To be honest, and I think you may have made this point already yourself, I treat every other driver (learner or not) on the road as a potential hazard ........ it's just best practice safety-wise.

    Yes you should treat all drivers as a potential hazard but I was responded to your claim that she was not being observant because she didn't see the L plates - which you cannot stand by if you acknowledge my point.


  • Options
    #285
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,941 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    theteal wrote: »
    It's not slow reactions. It's not anticipating that there could possibly be anybody on your left when you're on the right-hand lane of a roundabout. That's basic due care on a roundabout. As I've said before, the only assumption that you should make when driving is that everybody else on the road has the potential to do idiotic things.

    Basic due care on a roundabout is using the roundabout properly. If someone uses the roundabout incorrectly, there is only so far you can reasonably go to defensively protect yourself and make it through a busy roundabout. That applies to roads in general.

    At any point another car can break a red light, cross a yield sign or a stop sign, cross onto your side of the road, and do all kinds of idiotic things. I never trust an indicator, but I assume a car will stop at a red light, obey yield and stop signs etc.
    Logically, to expect the unexpected, one would have to drive as if a yield sign for someone else is a yield sign for you too - because they might not obey it.

    I wish road designers would consider the idiotic things more when designing roundabouts and road layouts. What's the point of two lane roundabouts on dual carriageways if at any point on them you might have to come to a complete stop?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #286
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Left lane for exits 1 and 2 and right for other exits is not nonsense it is simplle to understand. The 180 degree thing just cause confusion where there would be none if things were left as they were.

    Is that really what the regulation says? I don't believe it.


  • Options
    #287
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    obriendj wrote: »
    Yes you should treat all drivers as a potential hazard but I was responded to your claim that she was not being observant because she didn't see the L plates - which you cannot stand by if you acknowledge my point.

    The drivers I worry about most are the experienced drivers, the "sure, I know these roads like the back of my hand" type drivers .......... they make a lot of assumptions about what other drivers should/should not do and what they will/will not do on the roads.


  • Options
    #288
    Stephenc66
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭Stephenc66


    I was a passenger in an almost identical accident here in the UK a couple of weeks ago. The car I was traveling in was in the right hand lane going straight on, a lady in the left lane effectively did as the OP did to take the next exit and effectively turned in to us.

    Police were called and as the lady driving the other car was hurt the police had to do an incident report, by chance a driving school car returned to the scene of the accident. They had followed both cars in to the roundabout and had dash cam footage of the incident which they showed to the police.

    As a result the driver of the other car may be charged with careless driving and the claim appears to be going in the favor of the driver in whose car I was a passenger.

    I was told by the police officer that in the event she was charged I might be called as a witness.


  • Options
    #289
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,122 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    If someone uses the roundabout incorrectly, there is only so far you can reasonably go to defensively protect yourself and make it through a busy roundabout.

    The video linked earlier is a case in point. It involved a driving school car driving erratically up to the roundabout, the other car involved had spotted the erratic driving, was being extra careful and was wary of something going wrong, and still was nearly hit by the other car.

    Bleating on about the blue car taking more care and attention doesn't really recognise the reality of day to day driving.


  • Options
    #290
    DakarVert
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭DakarVert


    Can we get a poll on this?

    Red car 100% fault
    Blue car 100% fault
    50/50

    Be interesting to see the results.


  • Options
    #291
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    DakarVert wrote: »
    Can we get a poll on this?

    Red car 100% fault
    Blue car 100% fault
    50/50

    Be interesting to see the results.

    I think both were 100% at fault.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #292
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Left lane for exits 1 and 2 and right for other exits is not nonsense it is simplle to understand. The 180 degree thing just cause confusion where there would be none if things were left as they were.

    Let's make it even simpler then..

    If you're turning right (ie: any point beyond straight ahead/12 o'clock/180 degrees) as the OP in this case was, get in the right lane.

    If you're turning left or going straight ahead, stay in the left lane


    This assumes there are no road markings or signage to the contrary which there sometimes can be (eg: left turn only lanes, necessitating you to be in the right lane to go straight ahead/right)


  • Options
    #293
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Let's make it even simpler then..

    If you're turning right (ie: any point beyond straight ahead/12 o'clock/180 degrees) as the OP in this case was, get in the right lane.

    If you're turning left or going straight ahead, stay in the left lane


    This assumes there are no road markings or signage to the contrary which there sometimes can be (eg: left turn only lanes, necessitating you to be in the right lane to go straight ahead/right)

    That's the system I use .........


  • Options
    #294
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    DakarVert wrote: »
    Can we get a poll on this?

    Red car 100% fault
    Blue car 100% fault
    50/50

    Be interesting to see the results.

    I'd go 50/50 ........ wouldn't be surprised if the Insurance company finds either party 100% liable though.


  • Options
    #295
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Let's make it even simpler then..

    If you're turning right (ie: any point beyond straight ahead/12 o'clock/180 degrees) as the OP in this case was, get in the right lane.

    I hate this system, on a big roundabout how do I know what f**kin o'clock an exit is at. To me the left lane first or second exit makes far more sense.

    In this case there was definitely lack of awareness on both drivers parts wither should have been able to avoid crash


  • Options
    #296
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I hate this system, on a big roundabout how do I know what f**kin o'clock an exit is at. To me the left lane first or second exit makes far more sense.

    In this case there was definitely lack of awareness on both drivers parts wither should have been able to avoid crash

    That's a good point actually ......... I've had to do a lap of an unfamiliar roundabout on occasion for this very reason, which is a bit irritating, but still better than smashing into another car or vice versa.


  • Options
    #297
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,411 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    More than a few have, just a quick search gives me:




    And then we have one poster determined to go straight to blaming the victim, those are the people you should be worried about on our roads.
    Don't misquote me. Multiple times I've said they were both responsible.


  • Options
    #298
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,122 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Don't misquote me.

    Its a direct quote, those were your exact words, people are free to click the links and check.


  • Options
    #299
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,411 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    That's a good point actually ......... I've had to do a lap of an unfamiliar roundabout on occasion for this very reason, which is a bit irritating, but still better than smashing into another car or vice versa.
    That's a good point, what would most posters do in the event of a 6 exit roundabout with no markings? Where there are 3 exits up to and including 12 o'clock? Left or right lane for going straight on?

    Most simple thing to do really is ensure all roundabouts are clearly marked. Spiral roundabouts are the way to go!


  • Options
    #300
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    TheChizler wrote: »
    That's a good point, what would most posters do in the event of a 6 exit roundabout with no markings? Where there are 3 exits up to and including 12 o'clock? Left or right lane for going straight on?

    Most simple thing to do really is ensure all roundabouts are clearly marked. Spiral roundabouts are the way to go!

    Your talking about the walkinstown roundabout here. Combat sport at its best, survival of the bravest.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #301
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,411 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Your talking about the walkinstown roundabout here. Combat sport at its best, survival of the bravest.
    Wow, a six exit three lane concrentric ring roundabout with three lanes on each entrance and zero arrows. Is this sponsored by body repair shops?


Advertisement