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Car Incident. Need advice

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    #242
    Turtle_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm obviously a bit late to this party...

    So this has probably been covered (I haven't read the whole thread yet.. getting there slowly but surely). The OP is definitely in the wrong lane if the diagram is correct.. but, the OP seems to be ahead of the other car, from reading the description.. wouldn't the other car be at fault for changing lanes and driving into another vehicle?

    I think it's safe to say we actually can't trust a word the OP has said about where the other car was relative to them. Wrong lane, no idea where the other car came from, paid no attention to the sign ahead of the junction, didn't bother with an accompanying driver... And thought (s)he was in the right.


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    #243
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm obviously a bit late to this party...

    So this has probably been covered (I haven't read the whole thread yet.. getting there slowly but surely). The OP is definitely in the wrong lane if the diagram is correct.. but, the OP seems to be ahead of the other car, from reading the description.. wouldn't the other car be at fault for changing lanes and driving into another vehicle?

    Yes they are .......... the real question here is how much, if any, blame the Insurance Companies will apportion to the Op, ie. will they lay the blame fully on the other driver or will they call it 50/50?


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    #244
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Yes they are .......... the real question here is how much, if any, blame the Insurance Companies will apportion to the Op, ie. will they lay the blame fully on the other driver or will they call it 50/50?

    No they're not, you have to yield to the right on a roundabout no matter where you are on it. The OP can be in the lane for the exit she wants to use.

    Otherwise by any other logic she would be able to exit at 6 o clock without incident!


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    #245
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    No they're not, you have to yield to the right on a roundabout no matter where you are on it. The OP can be in the lane for the exit she wants to use.

    Otherwise by any other logic she would be able to exit at 6 o clock without incident!

    It's not the first time you've been wrong on this thread ........


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    #246
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    It's not the first time you've been wrong on this thread ........

    I'm not wrong, you simply can't use that lane to go pat 12, it's not safe and risks a crash.

    If you can't see the risk you shouldn't be allowed to drive


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    #247
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    And not only that if you had read the thread you would have seen they didn't change lane, they exited the roundabout from the inner lane when no one should ever have been in the left lane


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    #248
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    And not only that if you had read the thread you would have seen they didn't change lane, they exited the roundabout from the inner lane when no one should ever have been in the left lane

    Huh? :confused:

    She exited the inside lane and entered the outside lane ........ that's the very definition of changing lanes!! :D

    You're not allowed crash into another vehicle just because the other vehicle "shouldn't have been there" ......... obviously. :rolleyes:


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    #249
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Huh? :confused:

    She exited the inside lane and entered the outside lane ........ that's the very definition of changing lanes!! :D

    You're not allowed crash into another vehicle just because the other vehicle "shouldn't have been there" ......... obviously. :rolleyes:

    If she wasn't there, in the place where she shouldn't be, the crash would never have happened.

    The OP was in the wrong lane for the exit she wanted to use.

    Granted the person coming from the inner lane hit her, but likely the OP would have been in a blind spot where turning your head or checking wing mirrors would have been ineffective.

    In fact, to see the op the other driver would have had to turn their head so much it would have compromised their ability to control the car.

    This exact crash happened in Loughlinstown roundabout recently where a driver in the left lane tried to exit at 3 o clock, caused a three car pile up and was found at fault for the crash (I knew one of the Gardai involved).

    The problem about two lane roundabouts is that they're not documented well enough, not properly covered in driving tests or by instructors.

    They're a logical system but most people just point their cars and go, or stay in a position on the road because it's easier or they don't know better and when they crash they can't understand why.

    Simply, bad driving.


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    #250
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    If she wasn't there, in the place where she shouldn't be, the crash would never have happened.

    The OP was in the wrong lane for the exit she wanted to use.

    Granted the person coming from the inner lane hit her, but likely the OP would have been in a blind spot where turning your head or checking wing mirrors would have been ineffective.

    In fact, to see the op the other driver would have had to turn their head so much it would have compromised their ability to control the car.

    This exact crash happened in Loughlinstown roundabout recently where a driver in the left lane tried to exit at 3 o clock, caused a three car pile up and was found at fault for the crash (I knew one of the Gardai involved).

    The problem about two lane roundabouts is that they're not documented well enough, not properly covered in driving tests or by instructors.

    They're a logical system but most people just point their cars and go, or stay in a position on the road because it's easier or they don't know better and when they crash they can't understand why.

    Simply, bad driving.

    From my experience and involvement in Insurance over the years I can tell you that this accident comes down to interpretation and liability could quite easily be placed 100% with the other driver ......... it could instead be placed totally with the Op or could go 50/50 ........ the outcome won't surprise me no matter what is decided.

    Any Gardai involvement in this case is separate, and irrelevant, to the Insurance aspect .......... the Gardai won't actually bother with this one anyway so it really does come down to what the Insurance Companies decide.

    I very much doubt the other driver will get away scot-free from the fact that she left her lane and collided with a vehicle in the lane she was entering. She did not exercise due care and attention so will, most likely, be answerable for that ......... unless the Op foolishly accepts full liability officially.


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    #251
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,243 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    Can somebody please remind the op they were in the wrong lane!


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    #252
    HJL
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭HJL


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    the exit lane 2 is lane 2 from the roundabout. After that exit a new lane opens up for people to move into from lane 2, to take the next exit off the roundabout. The right lane is then used for continuing around.

    Are you saying then that blue car should have moved into lane 1 of the roundabout after she passed the exit before the one she wanted and should not have exited from lane 2?

    Not saying you are wrong, i just dont see how this could be done during peak times, and her manoeuvre seemed fine to me to exit from lane 2.


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    #253
    Welruc
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭Welruc


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    No they're not, you have to yield to the right on a roundabout no matter where you are on it. The OP can be in the lane for the exit she wants to use.

    Otherwise by any other logic she would be able to exit at 6 o clock without incident!

    Not true. You yield to the right entering the roundabout not when your on it!!!

    By your logic anyone can cut across to the left at any time as they wulld be coming from the right.


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    #254
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,212 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    HJL wrote: »
    Not saying you are wrong, i just dont see how this could be done during peak times, and her manoeuvre seemed fine to me to exit from lane 2.

    It couldn't be done during peak times, its a completely unrealistic assertation, and the blue car was perfectly correct in the exit she was taking.

    Her only problem was that the OP pulled in front of her and she didn't react in time.


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    #255
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭degsie


    Libertewhite wrote: »
    So, this blue car comes speeding around the roundabout and cuts into me. Both of the sides of our cars clash.

    Surprised how an unaccompanied learner driver can determine that the other car was 'speeding'. Seems to be trying to divert the blame.


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    #256
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    degsie wrote: »
    Surprised how an unaccompanied learner driver can determine that the other car was 'speeding'. Seems to be trying to divert the blame.

    I don't think the Op meant speeding in the legal sense of the word, I think he meant the other car was behind him and sped up in order to over-take the Op's car, cut across and exit the roundabout ........ but obviously she never made it past the cutting across bit.


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    #257
    Turtle_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Turtle_


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I don't think the Op meant speeding in the legal sense of the word, I think he meant the other car was behind him and sped up in order to over-take the Op's car, cut across and exit the roundabout ........ but obviously she never made it past the cutting across bit.

    Or quite possibly was doing a normal speed around the roundabout, one that a novice like the op probably can't manage and so seems like speeding to the op...


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    #258
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Turtle_ wrote: »
    Or quite possibly was doing a normal speed around the roundabout, one that a novice like the op probably can't manage and so seems like speeding to the op...

    It's not like he'll ever be able to prove it without video evidence


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    #259
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Turtle_ wrote: »
    Or quite possibly was doing a normal speed around the roundabout, one that a novice like the op probably can't manage and so seems like speeding to the op...

    The other car was going too fast to take evasive action, brake in time, notice the Op was indicating right or otherwise avoid colliding with the Op's car .........


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    #260
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    Folks, look at the white car in this video. This is basically what our OP did. The only difference in the roundabout is there is no exit at 9 o clock.

    She was completely in the wrong and should not go past the 12 o clock exit in the left lane. Simple as.

    http://youtu.be/NNZEm320uzM


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    #261
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    Folks, look at the white car in this video. This is basically what our OP did. The only difference in the roundabout is there is no exit at 9 o clock.

    She was completely in the wrong and should go past the 12 o clock exit in the left lane. Simple as.

    http://youtu.be/NNZEm320uzM

    This is exactly what the OP done and exactly why they are at fault, the other car hitting them was as a consequence of the OP's driving, simple as.


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    #262
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    Folks, look at the white car in this video. This is basically what our OP did. The only difference in the roundabout is there is no exit at 9 o clock.

    She was completely in the wrong and should not go past the 12 o clock exit in the left lane. Simple as.

    http://youtu.be/NNZEm320uzM

    And do you see what the camera operator car did?

    He/She looked, stopped and didn't crash into the white car. Exactly what our OP's bump buddy did not do.

    As I've said before, both drivers are at fault. I'm just a bit bemused that people are saying the crasher is completely blameless in this instance.


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    #263
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    Folks, look at the white car in this video. This is basically what our OP did. The only difference in the roundabout is there is no exit at 9 o clock.

    She was completely in the wrong and should not go past the 12 o clock exit in the left lane. Simple as.

    http://youtu.be/NNZEm320uzM

    Two things I noticed watching that video .......... firstly, the Learner driver made numerous mistakes whilst learning to drive (haven't we all) and secondly, the other driver, being observant, exercised due care and attention and thus didn't collide with the Learner vehicle.


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    #264
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,212 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    Folks, look at the white car in this video. This is basically what our OP did. The only difference in the roundabout is there is no exit at 9 o clock.

    She was completely in the wrong and should not go past the 12 o clock exit in the left lane. Simple as.

    http://youtu.be/NNZEm320uzM

    Exactly, and as the video shows there is almost zero time for reaction between everything being fine and then the white car pulling in front of the other car. You don't need to be a bad driver to get caught out by such a manoeuvre.


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    #265
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    theteal wrote: »
    And do you see what the camera operator car did?

    He/She looked, stopped and didn't crash into the white car. Exactly what our OP's bump buddy did not do.

    As I've said before, both drivers are at fault. I'm just a bit bemused that people are saying the crasher is completely blameless in this instance.

    They shouldn't have had to stop is the point, it defeats the purpose of a roundabout!

    The OP is completely culpable here.

    You can't blame a drivers slow reaction for someone else's bad driving skills!

    It's like blaming a victim for not moving out of the way of a speeding bullet ffs!!!


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    #266
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,212 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    theteal wrote: »
    As I've said before, both drivers are at fault. I'm just a bit bemused that people are saying the crasher is completely blameless in this instance.

    Who said she was completely blameless?

    You should be more bemused by the idiots who think the OP did nothing wrong.


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    #267
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Exactly, and as the video shows there is almost zero time for reaction between everything being fine and then the white car pulling in front of the other car. You don't need to be a bad driver to get caught out by such a manoeuvre.

    A good driver doesn't wait until just before the point of impact before reacting, a good driver constantly reads the road and the manoeuvres of other vehicles sharing the road .......... the driver who filmed that video exercised due care and attention, the other driver in the Op did not.


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    #268
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,212 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    and secondly, the other driver, being observant, exercised due care and attention and thus didn't collide with the Learner vehicle.

    It does help when the car has learner driver signage and has already displayed shaky driving before the incident, that does encourage excessive care and attention.

    Doesn't apply to the lady in the OP though, first she knew was when the OP pulled into the side of her.


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    #269
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,212 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    A good driver doesn't wait until just before the point of impact before reacting, a good driver constantly reads the road and the manoeuvres of other vehicles sharing the road .......... the driver who filmed that video exercised due care and attention, the other driver in the Op did not.

    Its like you have ignored every point raised in this thread in your crusade to blame the lady in the OP.


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    #270
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    They shouldn't have had to stop is the point, it defeats the purpose of a roundabout!

    It's a scary thought to know there are drivers like yourself on the road who don't believe you should ever have to stop on a roundabout .......... ALWAYS be prepared to brake, slow down and/or stop your car!


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    #271
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Libertewhite wrote: »
    I'm a learner driver with L plates up.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    It does help when the car has learner driver signage and has already displayed shaky driving before the incident, that does encourage excessive care and attention.

    Doesn't apply to the lady in the OP though, first she knew was when the OP pulled into the side of her.

    Re-read the Op again .........


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