Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Villain

Ya I can't see much sense in buying anything below 45kw as new in 2017

grogi

Villain wrote: »

Ya I can't see much sense in buying anything below 45kw as new in 2017

Ioniq has 88 kW.

Villain

grogi wrote: »

Ioniq has 88 kW.

I'm talking battery size, Ioniq has 28kw battery

unkel

positron wrote: »

I was quoted 26k for plain white after SEI grant, 4k scrappage etc, and another €500 approx for metallic paint

Cash or on finance? Did they suggest a figure if you didn't have a trade in (scrappage)? €26k is higher than I imagined as the RRP is €28.5 and the scrappage is €4k.

Surely they aren't charging you €1.5k for delivery and then €0.5k for metallic too? Without further discount?

I was guessing the car could be bought with metallic for about €24k cash at most, hopefully €1k-€2k cheaper than that. But maybe that was too optimistic. At €26.5k there's no way I'd buy it...

DrPhilG

Really like the car, but future battery sizes will be key.

2 years til I'm due to upgrade. Need to have something big enough on the market within 12-18 months so I can pick up a second hand one.

positron

unkel wrote: »

Cash or on finance? Did they suggest a figure if you didn't have a trade in (scrappage)? €26k is higher than I imagined as the RRP is €28.5 and the scrappage is €4k.

Surely they aren't charging you €1.5k for delivery and then €0.5k for metallic too? Without further discount?

Their quote works down from a 40.5k figure - not sure why, probably usual sales tactics. After 4k scrappage, 5k SEAI grant, and less VRT (4,829), it's 26,595 for the metallic option. And 25,995 if not metallic. It's higher than I expected it to be.

Sales guys are never a good source of information, but he did confirm that there are talks of a 40kWh version "in a few months". Which, if true, will immediately knock a few thousand of the 28kWh version - why would Hyundai score such an own-goal, I wouldn't know. Perhaps 2018 version is 40kWh?

Water John

That looks like 2/2.5K dearer than Leaf. Hard to judge these things with all the variables.

unkel

That's weird. Finance or cash? Did you query him why he didn't work from the €28,495 (minus €4k scrappage) that is published on their website?

Water John wrote: »

That looks like 2/2.5K dearer than Leaf. Hard to judge these things with all the variables.

It is hard to judge these things but I had a deal ready on the 24kW Leaf for €20k cash incl 6.6kW charger and metallic. So substantially cheaper (and I know the spec / range of the Leaf are nowhere near as good as the Ionic)

Bigus

After looking at all those independent reviews of the fully electric Ioniq, it seems to be super efficient , so much so that if it was a Tesla the internet would probably have us believe it's a game changer and in fact the 28 kWh battery is a distraction.

This efficiency would certainly be of interest to somebody on a long commute who could charge from PV or windmill at home free after capital costs are written off .

On the US EPA
ioniq get mpg equivalent of 136 combined
BMW i3 118 mpg ( with bigger battery)
Leaf 114 mpg

And apparently it's so efficient at 50 to 60 Kmh you could stretch to 370 km on one charge in extreme circumstances.

While the above is unrealistic, it does show how you could overcome some range anxiety by slowing down for part of a long journey in the event of charger problems.
IT appears from the reviews that an ioniq at 120 Kmh is a lot more practical and efficient than a leaf for commuting.

It'll be interesting to see more reviews as more fanboys get their hands on them.

Villain

This charging from PV or wind etc is a pipe dream for most, unless you are retired or work from home then it's no use.

Water John

I know the Ioniq is said to have more range than the Leaf. If in practise it has, along with being a better car, it will be well worth the few K extra.

Night charging is the realistic best option to be considered for most. That should be put in as the default cost of fuel when generally going realistic calculations of running cost in comparisons.

unkel

Sound post Bigus, agree with your sentiments. Except for:

Bigus wrote: »

This efficiency would certainly be of interest to somebody on a long commute who could charge from PV or windmill at home free after capital costs are written off .

Not at all. If you can get your max range of 280km as Hyunday claims say 180km from a nightly charge at home costing €2 and never even charge for free at free charging point, this will be a major saving over having an ICE car

I filled up my Jag with almost €100 worth of petrol, didn't drive much at all and a bit over a week later it needed filling up again. Now I know a modern diesel would cost less than a third of that, but an EV would only cost a fraction of that again, and it won't cause cancer.

Bigus

I agree that ESB night rate would be the way to go FOR NOW.
However , I could see the irish government eventually trying to claw back excise duty on transport electricity , so I suppose the PV suggestion was my subconscious stuffing them for the long term.

I assume a 28 kW charge would cost about€ 2.70
To fully charge At a night unit rate of 0€0.00984

Which is the only night unit rate I can find online .

KCross

Bigus wrote: »

I agree that ESB night rate would be the way to go FOR NOW.
However , I could see the irish government eventually trying to claw back excise duty on transport electricity , so I suppose the PV suggestion was my subconscious stuffing them for the long term.

I assume a 28 kW charge would cost about€ 2.70
To fully charge At a night unit rate of 0€0.00984

Which is the only night unit rate I can find online .

I pay 7.51c/kWh inc vat for night rate from airtricity

When calculating the cost to charge you need to add 10% as the car charger is only about 90% efficient but you are rarely charging from 0% either. The kWh/km figure is really what you need to know and that depends on the car, the temp and your driving style.

Bigus

Here's a Czech auto mag test to empty battery look up in google chrome and translate

http://autobible.euro.cz/hyundai-ioniq-electric-vs-nissan-leaf-vs-bmw-i3-kdo-dojede-nejdal-na-200-km-
I couldn't bring the table over intact , but the ioniq put the 30 kWh leaf to shame going 165 km to empty vs 122 for the 30 kWh leaf under adverse wintry fast road conditions.


Hyundai Electric Ioniq BMW i3 94 Ah Nissan Leaf 30 kWh
Range after driving 61 km (after the first part of the route) 114 km 96 km 77 km
The average speed of the first part of the route 79 km / h 80 km / h 72 km / h
Average consumption over the first part of the route 17.1 kWh / 100 km 20.4 kWh / 100 km 22.3 kWh / 100 km
Range after driving 122 km 48 km 28 km ---
The average speed of the second part of the route 77 km / h 81.3 km / h 81.5 km / h
Average consumption over the second part of the route 17.0 kWh / 100 km 19.6 kWh / 100 km 20.7 kWh / 100 km
Total traveled to halt 165 km 149.1 km 122.1 km

unkel

In the above video, Bjørn Nyland said a few times that the Ionic is the most efficient EV there is

122km for the Leaf with an extra €5k spent for the bigger battery is very poor. Pity they haven't tested more EVs in that test.

Bigus

unkel wrote: »

In the above video, Bjørn Nyland said a few times that the Ionic is the most efficient EV there is

122km for the Leaf with an extra €5k spent for the bigger battery is very poor. Pity they haven't tested more EVs in that test.

Yeah , and yer man in Norway in the video linked earlier reckoned it is in as good better than Tesla model S territory at a 1/3 of the price, (efficiency wise )that's why I started hunting around Google for more info on the Ioniq.

It looks like our model 3 deposit won't turn into a sale for Elon at this rate of development.

unkel

Bigus wrote: »

Yeah , and yer man in Norway in the video

That is Bjørn Nyland

Although he doesn't look like you'd expect

Bigus

unkel wrote: »

That is Bjørn Nyland

Although he doesn't look like you'd expect

Sorry I thought you were referring to the Czech guy.:D

unkel

Bigus wrote: »

It looks like our model 3 deposit won't turn into a sale for Elon at this rate of development.

Lovely car, lots of power / range but it will cost about €44k net of subsidies. That's a lot of money...

positron

I found a reasonably active Ioniq forum (ioniqforum.com) and found this link to Ioniq manual in PDF format:
https://carmanuals2.com/get/hyundai-ioniq-electric-2017-owner-s-manual-101276
A lot of really clear and complete answers there - way better than trusting car sales men!

positron

From that PDF, fast charging to 100% takes between 23 to 30 mins (based on charger 100kw or 50kw), and charging at home takes only 4.5 hours and just 12 hours on trickle charge (visiting relatives in the country or night in a b&b etc) not 48 hours like the sales guy were blurting out.

DrPhilG

Sadly the CCS network will probably prevent me from considering this car even if it reaches the 50kwh I need.

My options for stops if I need a Donegal to Dublin trip are Lifford, Omagh (before the hotel closed), Monaghan, Castlebellingham, Lusk. I usually did Omagh-Monaghan-Lusk.

However Lifford, Monaghan and Omagh are all Chademo only. Fair enough with a 50kwh battery I would be much less likely to need a charge during that part of the journey but to not have the option would be a pain in the ass.

unkel

Laghey to Castlebellingham is 170km. Should make that in the Ionic. Just. With all the toys switched off. In summer. Not going over 100km/h. With a lot of range anxiety

If you do very long trips all the time (in that part of the country), EV just isn't suitable for you. Yet.

Unless you buy the 40 Kwh Zoe with 200-270 kms range. And the advantage is the Zoe can charge at many DC fast chargers the same time the DC side is being used !

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

If you do very long trips all the time (in that part of the country), EV just isn't suitable for you. Yet.

We've been a 1 car EV household for nearly 2 years. I only go to Dublin maybe 2 or 3 times a year. Belfast more commonly, maybe half a dozen times.

The issue that is I like to have options. If I'm making that Dublin journey in a 50kwh car then I'll likely have about 250km of real life heavy booted range which in theory means I could do the trip from my house to Dublin City Centre in one drive. But there are always things to consider. Bad weather, charger failure, getting ICE'd or EV blocked, not being able to start the journey with a full battery etc.

I would prefer to make that journey knowing that there are 6 chargers on the way than 3.

If the price and charger options were equal, I'd jump at the Ioniq. But if it's both more expensive and also less catered for in terms of chargers, my next car will likely be a Nissan again.

positron

Upgrading charge points to CCS connectors shouldn't really be that hard, surely it would happen sooner than later? Also something like a 'CCS adaptor' may be?

DrPhilG

positron wrote: »

Upgrading charge points to CCS connectors shouldn't really be that hard, surely it would happen sooner than later? Also something like a 'CCS adaptor' may be?

The first part of your post places way too much faith in the competence of the ESB.

As for the second part, adaptors in these kind of circumstances are often not possible, or insanely expensive.

liamog

Just got the word through that our finance is approved for the Ioniq.

We're in Dublin West so a good few CCS spots around.

TBi

DrPhilG wrote: »

Sadly the CCS network will probably prevent me from considering this car even if it reaches the 50kwh I need.

According to the manual posted the Ioniq is equiped with Chademo outside of europe. (well it looks like chademo) It's a shame they don't offer a version with Chademo and CCS. Connect both and charge to 100% in 10 mins!

Manual link here from positron.

positron wrote: »

I found a reasonably active Ioniq forum (ioniqforum.com) and found this link to Ioniq manual in PDF format:
https://carmanuals2.com/get/hyundai-ioniq-electric-2017-owner-s-manual-101276
A lot of really clear and complete answers there - way better than trusting car sales men!