Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

the TDI was a let down, 180 HP Quattro DSG, press the throttle and the delay seems forever, felt like it had a lot less power than the 104 HP Leaf, however after 120 Kph it was notably faster, obviously with 80 odd extra HP.

I've been saying this to deaf ears for a very long time

That's the problem with modern small turbocharged engines, particularly diesels. There is no torque at all until the turbo starts helping but that takes a long time. Once it happens in the petrol, you're sorted. In a diesel it's over in a second and you've run out of steam and have to shift up.

Back in the day when I wanted a fast saloon I tried a turbo petrol. On paper the figures looked good (0-100km/h in 7s - that was a car made 22 years ago) but in practice it was not for me. I ended up with my first of several V8 petrol saloons (that have most of their torque available from zero)

Now in recent years the tax has gone mad on these and there just aren't any from '08 onwards for sale (and importing will cause a massive VRT bill)

Yes, that makes a stubborn petrol head like myself start to become interested in EVs

Diesels are good in tractors, Busses and trucks.

Even as good as V petrols are, I still would prefer the Electric motor. Just wish I could buy one with 200 HP or more, shame the Ampera-E isn't coming in right hand drive.

n97 mini

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Diesels are good in tractors, Busses and trucks.

Dunno about buses. Having spent the summer in the US most buses are not diesel, but electric or CNG. US cities like Chicago have way better air quality than Dublin as a result.

n97 mini

n97 mini wrote: »

Dunno about buses. Having spent the summer in the US most buses are not diesel, but electric or CNG. US cities like Chicago have way better air quality than Dublin as a result.

Yes true, no need for Diesel in Buses either.

Soarer

I'm all confused about this charging lark.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

I've been saying this to deaf ears for a very long time

That's the problem with modern small turbocharged engines, particularly diesels. There is no torque at all until the turbo starts helping but that takes a long time. Once it happens in the petrol, you're sorted. In a diesel it's over in a second and you've run out of steam and have to shift up.

Back in the day when I wanted a fast saloon I tried a turbo petrol. On paper the figures looked good (0-100km/h in 7s - that was a car made 22 years ago) but in practice it was not for me. I ended up with my first of several V8 petrol saloons (that have most of their torque available from zero)

22 years... Don't you think that things have changed since?

Engineers these days have variety of ways to eliminate the lag - starting from tiny turbo that are so small it takes only a fraction of a second to spin them up, variable geometry turbos that can pump also when not rotating that fast ending with twin-scroll or two separate turbos completely.

Sure, the responsiveness will never match EV nor a N/A V8, but they are very good. During xmas I had a rental Seat Toledo 1.2 TSI 90 bhp. Ignoring the fact that the plastics were aweful, it was a very enjoyable car. And very efficicient.

unkel

Ah of course things have moved on! Max torque in that car wasn't available till 2100rpm. In very early turbos like from Porsche, BMW and Saab it was more like 3000rmp

In today's small petrol turbo engines it's more like 1500-1700rpm typically and I think I have seen one as low as 1250rpm. Big difference, but it still means there is inadequate torque (to put it mildly) until you reach close to these rpms from idle when the light goes to green. Or when you approach a roundabout and have to come to a crawl / stop. Or when you join a fast moving highway from a side road.

In other words, where you really, really want or need to have max torque, but won't get it

paulers06

Hi All

Long time lurker here. Have been thinking about making the leap to an EV now for the last year or two. My car is now in in need of change and I was going to take a trip around the dealers this weekend. My round trip daily commute is 65km on the motorway and I drive Limerick to Dublin 2 to 3 times a month. I have been looking towards the 30kw leaf or the Ioniq and will be visiting the dealers this weekend. Just wondering, what are the best prices you have been quoted for these?

Thanks

KCross

paulers06 wrote: »

Hi All

Long time lurker here. Have been thinking about making the leap to an EV now for the last year or two. My car is now in in need of change and I was going to take a trip around the dealers this weekend. My round trip daily commute is 65km on the motorway and I drive Limerick to Dublin 2 to 3 times a month. I have been looking towards the 30kw leaf or the Ioniq and will be visiting the dealers this weekend. Just wondering, what are the best prices you have been quoted for these?

Thanks

If going with Ioniq you should look at the eCars charge point map and filter it to only show CCS chargers and see what the trip to Dublin would be like based on where your starting point in Limerick is. Looks like Portlaoise is your first CCS charger(without having to take a detour). Will the Ioniq make it to there from your start location in cold wet weather and allow for a Plan B if that charger is out of service (e.g. divert to Ballacolla)?

https://esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

FYI: Only half of the chargers are CCS enabled and thats what the Ioniq comes with and what you will be dependent on for long journeys.


Your daily round trip of 65km is no problem from home charging alone. Mine is 60km with about half of it on motorway and I drive it at 128kmh(which is actually 120kmh real world) and I have a 24kWh Leaf and it comfortably does that in all weather conditions so a 30kWh will be fine for that. Just do the figures for your Dublin trip and ideally get a loan of an EV and make the trip to see what it is like.

BoatMad

Villain wrote: »

Not what Nissan dealer told me when I enquirer about my 142 SVE, he said he couldn't shift 24kw with 30kw now available

That's solely because right now there's a surplus of 24 kWh leafs coming in the market in the uk and its depressing local demand

It's not in essence just because it's a 24 kWh

liamog

Does anybody know how long it usually takes for the SEAI grant to go through the dealers?

Fiery mutant

liamog wrote: »

Does anybody know how long it usually takes for the SEAI grant to go through the dealers?

I ordered mine near the end of November, still waiting on it.

liamog

Fiery mutant wrote: »

I ordered mine near the end of November, still waiting on it.

That's not great, we've a 10 year old car for scrappage that's due a NCT by the 15th.

The grant application has gone in and hopefully will clear. Dealer reckons we should have the car by then.

Villain

Grant took a few days on mine but I know there were delays last January

Villain

paulers06 wrote: »

Hi All

Long time lurker here. Have been thinking about making the leap to an EV now for the last year or two. My car is now in in need of change and I was going to take a trip around the dealers this weekend. My round trip daily commute is 65km on the motorway and I drive Limerick to Dublin 2 to 3 times a month. I have been looking towards the 30kw leaf or the Ioniq and will be visiting the dealers this weekend. Just wondering, what are the best prices you have been quoted for these?

Thanks

Along with what KCross said you should also factor in that Public Charge points won't be free for ever, could end soon enough too.

The only pricing we have seen is what ESB ecars had hope to roll out last year which was €17 a month for access and 30 cents a minute for Fast Charging so if you plan on 2 to 3 trips from Dublin to Limerick each month and there are fast chargers which suit your car on that route factor in the potential extra costs.

unkel

I got an SEAI subsidy for a home solar installation about a month ago and it came through (directly to the supplier) within days too. Looks like things have improved in this area!

Got another SEAI subsidy for a new boiler 4 years ago and that took a few months iirc. Also I had to pay the supplier and a few months later I got the subsidy straight into my bank account. Much better if you can net it off. That the supplier is taking care of all the paperwork and that you just pay the amount minus the subsidy. Particularly if you need to finance all / most of the purchase price.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I got an SEAI subsidy for a home solar installation about a month ago and it came through (directly to the supplier) within days too. Looks like things have improved in this area!

As a matter of interest what did it set you back, and what is the total area?

unkel

40 tube Solar Kingspan Thermomax with Kingspan SC400 controller, a 360l stainless steel cylinder (biggest that would fit into my hot press) and the installation was quite a bit of work as pretty much everything in my hot press needed to be moved / re-arranged / re-connected (incl el. waterpump for my showers / baths)

The reputable company that did the install is a customer of mine and I made an arrangement with them which I won't disclose. Subsidy was €1,250. Pay back time in the range of 5-10 years (that is in a 5 person household with 4 women ). If you use a lot of hot water, I'd highly recommend this setup. For a smaller household, not so much. Unless you go for cheaper materials (Chinese) and can do the install (partly) yourself...

paulers06

paulers06 wrote: »

Hi All

Long time lurker here. Have been thinking about making the leap to an EV now for the last year or two. My car is now in in need of change and I was going to take a trip around the dealers this weekend. My round trip daily commute is 65km on the motorway and I drive Limerick to Dublin 2 to 3 times a month. I have been looking towards the 30kw leaf or the Ioniq and will be visiting the dealers this weekend. Just wondering, what are the best prices you have been quoted for these?

Thanks

If you had to buy right now and couldn't wait another year then I would seriously consider the 40 Kwh Renault Zoe.

200-260 kms quiet hard driving to easy, from your home charge point to begin with is pretty damn good and will mean a lot less time at charge points and it can charge at standard street charge points at 22 Kw fully charging in about 2 hrs or to 90% from 0, pretty amazing from a standard street charge point.

Other than that I'd go for the Ioniq because it's newer , more efficient and more toys.

I'd hang on and wait a few days and there's a good possibility the New Leaf model will be announced which will hopefully be available by late Autumn of this year.

lookinghere

cros13 wrote: »

So... Hyundai IONIQ details are stating to leak out.

28kWh LG Chem NCM pack (Though I've been told that this is actually a 30kWh pack but Hyundai are being conservative about depth of discharge)

Expected EPA range of ~170km, just a few km shy of the 30kWh Leaf.

Looks well equipped and pricing might be below the Leaf. Had hoped for more range though.

Rapid Charging will be CCS in Europe and CHAdeMO in Asia.
A test unit was spotted charging via CCS at a FastNed station back in November.

Sounds good

patsryan

TBi wrote: »

According to the manual posted the Ioniq is equiped with Chademo outside of europe. (well it looks like chademo) It's a shame they don't offer a version with Chademo and CCS. Connect both and charge to 100% in 10 mins!

Manual link here from positron.

TBi are you referring to the USA and Australia/NZ Type 1 Spec CCS plug below?

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

If you had to buy right now and couldn't wait another year then I would seriously consider the 40 Kwh Renault Zoe.

Don't forget the Zoe is 40cm shorter and 10cm narrower...

unkel

Yeah, most people need 5 seats that could carry 5 adults / big kids. Zoe / i3 are just not options for me.

Provisionally booked an extended test drive of the Ioniq for next week. Strangely looking forward to that

TBi

patsryan wrote: »

TBi are you referring to the USA and Australia/NZ Type 1 Spec CCS plug below?

Nope. Definitely looks like chademo. Also the connector is in a different location than the standard charge point on the "except Europe" cars.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Yeah, most people need 5 seats that could carry 5 adults / big kids. Zoe / i3 are just not options for me.

Provisionally booked an extended test drive of the Ioniq for next week. Strangely looking forward to that

No Zoe is too small for me too, but I said the 40 Kwh is worth considering or just hang on until the new Leaf is announced.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I got an SEAI subsidy for a home solar installation about a month ago and it came through (directly to the supplier) within days too. Looks like things have improved in this area!

Got another SEAI subsidy for a new boiler 4 years ago and that took a few months iirc. Also I had to pay the supplier and a few months later I got the subsidy straight into my bank account. Much better if you can net it off. That the supplier is taking care of all the paperwork and that you just pay the amount minus the subsidy. Particularly if you need to finance all / most of the purchase price.

Thanks for the info... It has all the info bar what I'm actually looking for: the cost!

Considering solar but I might wait till PV is covered by the grant.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

Thanks for the info... It has all the info bar what I'm actually looking for: the cost!

Piece of string man! Depends completely on your setup. If you have a small setup with cheap materials maybe €1.5k. A large Kingspan setup from a reputable Kingspan approved installer with a 20 year guarantee you're looking at 3-4 times that money realistically (net of the subsidy)

The latter will only pay for itself in a reasonable period if you use a lot of water

n97 mini wrote: »

Considering solar but I might wait till PV is covered by the grant.

Again, unless you use a lot of hot water, you're better of waiting, maybe there is a reasonable feedback rate coming back in, or maybe battery storage will become cheaper.

Better of asking in the Renewable Energies forum. Lots of people in there who had work done and lots of professionals in there too. And it wouldn't be off topic

cros13

patsryan wrote: »

TBi are you referring to the USA and Australia/NZ Type 1 Spec CCS plug below?

Australia are using Type 2 CCS in practice.

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Again, unless you use a lot of hot water, you're better of waiting, maybe there is a reasonable feedback rate coming back in, or maybe battery storage will become cheaper.

Better of asking in the Renewable Energies forum. Lots of people in there who had work done and lots of professionals in there too. And it wouldn't be off topic

PV + Battery is getting very attractive. For example, Moixa in the UK are doing a bundle of a 3kW solar PV array + a small 3kWh combined Li Battery/Inverter for £5000 including installation.

If you are doing the panel mounting yourself you can do a 4-5kW array + a 13.5kWh Tesla Powerwall 2 Battery/Inverter for less than £10k excl. any grant aid.

But yeah... slightly OT. On the other hand, microgeneration can be a big part of the use case for an EV.
The Ioniq can work with things like smart chargepoints to soak up any excess power that would normally be stolen by ESB.

Hyundai have released an API that would allow you smart home to command charging as needed even without a fancy chargepoint.

unkel

Much better if you don't need your own battery storage. Unless you want to be off grid, it's a complete waste of money provided:

the government here will let people feed back into the grid, not paying them but just reversing the meter. That's what happens in many countries on the continent. That combined with susbsidised PV panels suddently creates millions of microgeneration plants (home owners). My own father had a basic PV setup the guts of 20 years ago where you could see the "ESB" meter running backwards on a sunny day (obviously this was not in Ireland)

Anyone who has driven through Netherlands / Belgium / Germany in the last few years knows what I'm talking about. Once that's up and running in Ireland the government can decommission many / most fossil fuel burning power stations (and increase wind / hydro / solar parks a bit further). It would not be impossible to only have one fuel power station left over, working 24/7, as micro generation mostly works only during the day. That would mean the end of night meters though

Cheap solution for the government, moving responsibility and maintenance away off to the home owner and drastically reducing CO2 without it costing much at all...