Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

  • 20-02-2016 7:12pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    So... Hyundai IONIQ details are stating to leak out.

    28kWh LG Chem NCM pack (Though I've been told that this is actually a 30kWh pack but Hyundai are being conservative about depth of discharge)

    Expected EPA range of ~170km, just a few km shy of the 30kWh Leaf.

    Looks well equipped and pricing might be below the Leaf. Had hoped for more range though.

    Rapid Charging will be CCS in Europe and CHAdeMO in Asia.
    A test unit was spotted charging via CCS at a FastNed station back in November.


«134567331

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Yeah I was hoping for more range too but all manufacturers will just follow what Nissan do as usual.

    Still good to have more options, same 28 Kwh usable as the Leaf 30 Kwh.

    Anyway at least when my lease is up there should be a lot more choice and much longer range.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 Benny_Cake


    Good to hear this. I actually thought that Hyundai had thrown their weight behind hydrogen fuel cells so the fact that they are planning a BEV that looks like it isn't just a compliance car is a pleasant surprise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I suppose GM got in with the 60 kwh Bolt a bit earlier.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Got this from Hyundai today, I expect anyone who registered their interest will get the same.

    Dear Mad_Lad

    "We expect to have the hybrid and fully electric version in Ireland from mid October 2016. We will bring the plug in electric version in early 2017."

    I expect that to hurt the Leaf, which is an old model now.

    It's a shame they didn't have a 40 Kwh I probably would have bought it myself !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭ thisonetaken


    They are saying it has a range of 174 miles, if we assume real world range is 120 that's more than adequate for the vast majority of people in Ireland


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    We don't yet know whether if it's got 28 usable Kwh or that's the battery capacity.

    If you drive the leaf at 120 Kph and get 19 Kwh/100 kms = 5.26 Kwh/100 kms and have an actual 28 Kwh usable that would give you to the car stops about 147 Kms.

    Drive at 100 kph and get about 162 Kms. The Ioniq could be a bit more efficient but I doubt that much more.

    TBH I would like more. Hyundai said they will offer more when the need arises but the need is now, what they mean is when competition offers more then they will.

    40 Kwh would give at about 200 kms at 120 kph give or take depending on terrain, weather etc.

    At 100 kph 40 Kwh and about 38 usable = 220 kms, but knock off 20-30 kms because you need to make sure you got enough juice to be near a charge point.

    The Next 2 years will be interesting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭ who_ru


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    We don't yet know whether if it's got 28 usable Kwh or that's the battery capacity.

    If you drive the leaf at 120 Kph and get 19 Kwh/100 kms = 5.26 Kwh/100 kms and have an actual 28 Kwh usable that would give you to the car stops about 147 Kms.

    Drive at 100 kph and get about 162 Kms. The Ioniq could be a bit more efficient but I doubt that much more.

    TBH I would like more. Hyundai said they will offer more when the need arises but the need is now, what they mean is when competition offers more then they will.

    40 Kwh would give at about 200 kms at 120 kph give or take depending on terrain, weather etc.

    At 100 kph 40 Kwh and about 38 usable = 220 kms, but knock off 20-30 kms because you need to make sure you got enough juice to be near a charge point.

    The Next 2 years will be interesting.

    Any pricing available on the Ioniq EV?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Not yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭ Hector Mildew


    Looks like UK price starts at £24,495 after grant deduction (http://bit.ly/2axucOl).

    For comparison, the 30 kwh Leaf Acenta (roughly equivalent spec) is going for £25,230


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    Best have a day off and read the while forum then, lol.

    Grants I can't say much about as I imported a second hand EV.

    Running costs are individual to each user. Personally I do about 15k miles a year and my fuel costs are down by about €2k. And the car itself cost me very little more than an equivalent year/mileage ICE, (internal combustion engine).

    Charging is a sticky topic. The Irish charging network is in an odd place right now. No money left to expand or even maintain properly, but no way to make money other than billing the users which the esb ecars department seem incapable of doing in a fair manner.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    28 kwh , is a big " meh" from me at this stage of the game


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭ Water John


    Reading up on the threads here is as good as any.
    This battery issue will move forward quite rapidly, I expect.
    I presume it's the take off and acceleration that caught your attention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    keithob13 wrote: »
    Grants available

    for a BEV ( battery electric vehicle )

    5K VRT rebate, 5K SEAI purchase rebate, dealers, typically quite retail inclusive if both , dealer and purchaser have to sign some paper work

    Charge Points ?

    Currently first 2000 purchasers of new BEVs through irish dealers, can avail of a free 16A EVSE ( which is often called a charge point, but isn't a charger ) I believe the Hyundai has a 6Kw charger , so the standard free home unit will cause the car to charge slower, unless upgraded to 32A, which means a private installation of the EVSE as the ESB will not install 32A.

    No word on what happens after 2000 units are installed. it must be close now.



    Running costs comparison etc

    very hard to do accurately until we see what pricing regime is brought into place by the ESB for public charging . essentially BEVs break even at around 22cents per Kwh of electric ( i.e. one Unit) compared to a modern small diesel with 3.5-4l/100km , so its not difficult to have BEV costs that are not cheaper then diesels over all. The running cost argument is very weak in reality and is completely skewed by the fact that public charging is currently free , but that its not expected to last


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    As a sales man, here's a very good selling point, EV for 30,000 kms on night rate electricity will cost 430 Euro's , excluding any free public charging or peak time top ups.

    30,000 kms at an average of 5.5 L/100 kms over this entire 30,000 kms will cost around 2,000-2200 Euro's.

    Range on the Ioniq in real life should be between 130-200 kms , the Ioniq is supposed to be a bit more efficient than a Leaf.

    Fast charge time "estimated" about 30 mins to 80%.

    Charge from home at 7 Kw (I think the Ioniq has a 7 Kw ac charger ) ? anyway charge time at 7 Kw would be around 4 hr 30 mins absolutely empty to full, the last few % takes longer doe to balancing the cells. Average would maybe be 3-3.5 less the more it's charged etc etc.

    The ESB will install a home charge point of 3.5 Kw so this will take about 8.5-9 hrs, still enough over night and you won't plug in empty. But the customer can have a 32 amp home charge point fitted at their cost.

    A customer will know their driving habits and when and if charging for public chargers is introduced this individual will know whether the home charge point will meet most of their driving needs or not, and even if they have to pay for some public chargers and even "if" and I stress "IF" a particular trip would have been the same cost in a diesel, most of their driving will probably still be met with their own home charge point.

    As I said above, over 30,000 kms the Electric 430 Euro's, Diesel 2,000-2200


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    Just spoke to a friend of mine who is a mechanic in a Hyndai dealers, he says they are expecting the car in within the next 2 weeks.

    I might take a test drive, but I'm definitely not in the market for an upgrade until 50kwh is available at a reasonable price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    As I said above, over 30,000 kms the Electric 430 Euro's, Diesel 2,000-2200

    really depends on what you are comparing it with , you could equally take 3,5l-4L per 100km diesel and day rate EV etc , very much depends on what the user is doing and also that they can actually complete 30,000Km by charging at home, which I suspect very few can actually do

    hence to be fair and not engage in min/maxing, its not quite as good as you state, in fact the running costs befit over 30,000 km could be as low as less then 1000 euros and that needs to be compared with the lower costs of small diesels and petrols

    TCO of EVs is actually quite marginal at present


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭ DrPhilG


    Calculating my annual savings against annual mileage, I saved approximately €2600 over 30,000 km compared to my previous car, a 2012 Peugeot 308 1.6 diesel.

    So while Boatmad is correct that it could be much lower than €1000, and Mad_lad estimated about €1500, my savings over 30,000 km is much higher.

    There is no set figure to give to potential customers as everyone's mileage and usage differs.

    And of course if the ESB succeed in bringing in their price gouging scheme, my savings would drop from €2100 a year to about €1400.

    (PS, those savings are on fuel, insurance cost and tax cost. Not taking into account cheaper servicing.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    DrPhilG wrote: »
    Calculating my annual savings against annual mileage, I saved approximately €2600 over 30,000 km compared to my previous car, a 2012 Peugeot 308 1.6 diesel.

    So while Boatmad is correct that it could be much lower than €1000, and Mad_lad estimated about €1500, my savings over 30,000 km is much higher.

    There is no set figure to give to potential customers as everyone's mileage and usage differs.

    And of course if the ESB succeed in bringing in their price gouging scheme, my savings would drop from €2100 a year to about €1400.

    (PS, those savings are on fuel, insurance cost and tax cost. Not taking into account cheaper servicing.)

    my own figures show a €600 a month saving , or 7200 a year compared to running two previous cars , we will do close to 50km in the leaf in 12 months on current ,mileage . That compares to running a very inefficient 1.4 litre petrol and a 2,5l pickup truck ( That is now only used occasionally )

    out of that there is a payment of about 300 euros a month on the leaf and a deposit of 6000. taken over three years thats 15,000 euros of cost, and approx 21,000 of savings , resulting in a net gain of 6K. ( which is about right as we see about 220-250 euros of extra headroom per month in the current accounts ) . I can then factor in that 6K towards the GMFV , and or the next EV !!!.

    in that regards the 6K of savings will moist likely be lost in the fall in residual die to the high mileage, resulting in no net savings compared to running a small diesel which at present residuals would hold up better

    its a complex subject, TCO


  • Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BoatMad wrote: »
    my own figures show a €600 a month saving , or 7200 and year compared to running two previous cars , we will do close to 50km in the leaf in 12 months on current ,mileage . That compares to running a very inefficient 1.4 litre petrol and a 2,5l pickup truck ( That is now only used occasionally )

    out of that there is a payment of about 300 euros a month on the leaf and a deposit of 6000. taken over three years thats 15,000 euros of cost, and approx 21,000 of savings , resulting in a net gain of 6K. ( which is about right as we see about 220-250 euros of extra headroom per month in the current accounts ) . I can then factor in that 6K towards the GMFV , and or the next EV !!!.

    You can't really attribute less use of one of two cars to having an EV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    Augeo wrote: »
    You can't really attribute less use of one of two cars to having an EV.

    yes I can, because the most lower opex of the EV means that mileage that would have been done in the pickup has transferred to the EV, beecuase the cost of running is considerable lower then either of the two previous cars, SO we take the EV costs and compare them to the costs associated with TWO vehicles, we have to do this because otherwise you are not accounting for the extra mileage the EV is doing above and beyond what one driver would be doing.

    For example , I would regularly drive the pickup into dublin, now I never do and drop my wife off and drive on in, its not as convenient as having two independant cars, but for accurate comparisons , we have to factor both cars costs against the leaf ( with a residual opex cost for the occasional local use of the pickup)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 8,616 ✭✭✭ grogi


    BoatMad wrote: »
    yes I can, because the most lower opex of the EV means that mileage that would have been done in the pickup has transferred to the EV, beecuase the cost of running is considerable lower then either of the two previous cars, SO we take the EV costs and compare them to the costs associated with TWO vehicles, we have to do this because otherwise you are not accounting for the extra mileage the EV is doing above and beyond what one driver would be doing.

    For example , I would regularly drive the pickup into dublin, now I never do and drop my wife off and drive on in, its not as convenient as having two independant cars, but for accurate comparisons , we have to factor both cars costs against the leaf ( with a residual opex cost for the occasional local use of the pickup)

    OMG... I can only acclaim your creativity here :D

    Drop the pickup - that's a sensible thing to do if you don't really need two cars. Those are your 'sensible man' savings. Take it as a baseline and calculate the EV benefits from there...


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    grogi wrote: »
    OMG... I can only acclaim your creativity here :D

    Drop the pickup - that's a sensible thing to do if you don't really need two cars. Those are your 'sensible man' savings. Take it as a baseline and calculate the EV benefits from there...

    The two car strategy works, the residual value of the pickup is near zero and when its needed its very handy to have especially when the Leaf cant tow a trailer and we have use for the pickup every week.

    its only correct accounting , if Car A + Car B mileage =x, and then a percentage of X mileage is transferred to Car A, then the costs of that percentage should and must be transferred from car B to new car A.

    This is because clearly the EV is carrying a proportion of mileage greater then just one driver would do , thats easy to see from our mileage statistics.

    The resulting finance is accurately reflected in the bank accounts and bears out that this is the correct analytical approach.

    Of course a single car would save more, but at present a single car strategy doesnt suit us and a single car EV strategy suits even less. if we reduced to one car, the EV savings would be even greater


  • Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So it made sense to take two guzzlers regularly into Dublin but ye never thought to just take one and "drop my wife off and drive on in" ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    Augeo wrote: »
    So it made sense to take two guzzlers regularly into Dublin but ye never thought to just take one and "drop my wife off and drive on in" ?

    both guzzled , that the point, the effective lack of material difference in running costs between the two made prioritising the use of one over the other not worth the hassle of managing a single car and combining journeys. for example we do considerable weekend mileage in the summer , its made little real difference which car we originally took, now it make no sense to take anything but the EV, so mileage that was split between both cars is now exclusively carried by the EV and the saving are accrued accordingly.

    with the much lower opex costs of the EV, there is a considerable incentive to realise this savings ( and they are being realised) at a cost of higher mileage then one use driver would do one their own.

    PS; both guzzlers where not going into Dublin, my wife has a journey thats not into DUBlin, whereas I regularly do


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    3.5-4l 100 km 100 HP diesel the same size of a Leaf ? not driving at at any decent speed that's for sure or town driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    Rumor has it that Hyundai will increase on the Ioniq. LG Chem supplies the pack and it's currently based on an older chemistry than the Bolt/Zoe packs GM/RenaultNissan are getting from them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    I do 50,000+ km a year and I'm saving ~€7000 vs a BMW 520d.

    But that's not the reason I drive an EV... they are just flat out better cars.

    There's a lot of reasons plug-ins have 98% customer loyalty (Norwegian Study: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/08/20160816-norway.html).

    Norway's population is similar to ours, yet over 25% of new car sales there are EVs. Even now that they've started to roll back on incentives sales are still growing.

    Registrations_EVs_Norway_2004_2013.png

    In Ireland most people still don't know practical EVs exist, let alone things like rapid charging. But when they get a test drive and they find out their questions about charging and battery longevity have satisfactory answers they quickly come around.

    Heck in the two years since I bought my first EV, I've bought three personally (two Leafs and an i3) and five family members have purchased EVs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,616 ✭✭✭ grogi


    cros13 wrote: »
    I do 50,000+ km a year and I'm saving ~€7000 vs a BMW 520d.

    But that's not the reason I drive an EV... they are just flat out better cars.

    There's a lot of reasons plug-ins have 98% customer loyalty (Norwegian Study: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/08/20160816-norway.html).

    Norway's population is similar to ours, yet over 25% of new car sales there are EVs. Even now that they've started to roll back on incentives sales are still growing.

    Population might be similar, but the government is a bit different and contrary to ours is planning ahead...

    They are spending tremendous money (ironically from selling the fossil fuels) on the EV infrastructure, plus the EV cars get loads of benefits - reduced taxes and tolls.

    Owing an ICE in Norway is horrendously expensive, owing an EV is much more palatable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Look, even if EV was similar cost to Diesel car in every fecking way, I'd still drive the Leaf over any Dirt Box diesel !

    Every time I drive My Partner's 1.6 Kia Cee'd Estate I want to scream, the throttle response is unbelievably slow compared to the Leaf and the Cee'd has about 15 more HP. I fecking hate diesel or petrol for that matter. Then manual gear box ? Christ ! horrendously bad technology , ok yeah sure, good in it's day but come on this is 2016 and people want to drive a manual diesel ? great. I'm happy for them. I'm just mighty glad I don't have to swap cogs in all the traffic.

    ICE = crap compared to EV pure and simple, so even if I had to pay the same as Diesel to drive an EV I'd still drive the EV.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭ September1


    grogi wrote: »
    OMG... I can only acclaim your creativity here :D

    Drop the pickup - that's a sensible thing to do if you don't really need two cars. Those are your 'sensible man' savings. Take it as a baseline and calculate the EV benefits from there...

    He is right, I used to own EV and this effect is true - basically as marginal cost of doing extra journeys in EV is close to zero, then EV is used it more. When I had LEAF it would be doing 75% of miles in household, but now when we are back to ICE this split is about 55/45. It seems that EVs are a bit more economical for two car households.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement