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Stade Francais vs Munster, Sat 9th January 4:45 Irish time; Sky Sports

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    #482
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Jamie Heaslip
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    How they didn't get the fourth I dunno.

    Terrible pass from Plisson.

    They needed it too as they're still along way to go from qualifying

    It matters little anyway, the die is already cast it's Racing 92 Dan Carter all the way. :D

    ****



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    #483
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Dont think the solution there lies.
    And I was loudly for the sacking of MOC as necessary for Leinster to get out of the downward slide last year (with plenty of vilification here too before it was fashionable to do so). But I believed Leinster had the players.

    Foley may be no great shakes. But for the moment, its more a case of the jury being out. The players just arent there. .

    The players aren't there for Munster to be winning trophies. The players are more than there to win against a 14 man side who have been in poor form and are missing several key players.

    Munster are in a place that Leinster never were under MOC. Leinster were playing ugly and scrapping to underwhelming (and sometimes undeserved) wins. They were never at this level.

    The jury is in. The coaching staff have been found wanting.


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    #484
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    aimee1 wrote: »
    would take dave foley over Ryan. Ryan is 32/33. Think Foley would learn a lot from Cullen.

    Foley turns 28 this season and isn't in the same class at all as Ryan. I'd be far more interested in Ross Molony than Foley at this point.


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    #485
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    washman3 wrote: »
    Good prediction.....!! :D

    This is why I don't gamble.

    In my defence, nobody (including the bookmakers) predicted anything like that!


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    #486
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    Everything going downhill for Munster seemed to coincide with TOD leaving the field. Yet again, everything fell apart when Munster didn't have a 7 or a 10 on the field.

    I rate Foley as a coach, but we need to get a DoR in above him. Morale and confidence is gone in the camp, and change from the top down is the only way of rectifying things.


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    #487
    Borders no.2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Borders no.2


    To be honest even with 15 men Stade were moderate enough. They had plenty of possession but never put a significant number of phases together and Munster looked ok around 30 minutes if offering little in attack but coupled with Keatley's miss, the try gave Stade the impetus they needed. Down to 14 men you'd have expected more from Munster but the 2nd half was a non-event.

    The other factor is that the aura that surrounded Munster in Europe for so long is effectively dead. Like Man United under Ferguson even playing badly or with an average side the other side would always be looking over their back coming down the home straight but that isn't there anymore. Leicester showed Munster the respect of kicking for the posts in Thomond Park when they could have gone for the 4th try but they were never in any significant danger in either game.

    The problem for Munster now is that its hard to break free from the downward spiral. Last year Munster were cut some slack as they got a disastrous draw but looking at the draw in the summer there was nothing to fear for Munster. After missing out now for the 2nd year this time with 2 matches to spare, Munster will have to re-group and try and do something in the league. I presume Munster will get Top 6 but 3rd/4th seeding will result in another tough draw. An average squad, dwindling crowds and a poor draw in Europe doesn't make Munster an overly appealing prospect for any big name signings or any potential coaching team Munster may be looking at bringing in.

    No offence to either player who are both useful but Munster announcing that Dave O'Callaghan and Robin Copeland had extended their contracts with Munster a couple of weeks back like it was a big deal really brought it home to me how far Munster had fallen.

    Munster will come back but how they respond to these failures particularly off the field in the months ahead will determine how long that process will take.


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    #488
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭kuang1


    I would use the word 'incestuous' to describe the management set up in Munster. Stale. Backward. Stuck in the past.
    I'm not foolish enough to be angry with Anthony Foley the man, he is not deliberately trying to be bad at his job.

    But he is bad at his job.

    Out of his depth. He needs to go and quickly.

    And can anyone out there explain to me the logic of offering him a 1 year extension to his contract before we were even half way through the season?
    That absolutely stinks to me. Rotten.

    I asked this question at the time but got no satisfactory explanation.


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    #489
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Green farmer wrote: »
    Back in the day, we had a pack that used to pressurise and beat up the opposition, a number 10 that used to punish them and a decent competent backline, coupled with street smart coaching staff.
    Sadly, how would you describe the current team ?


    Its days like today that your realise how good the likes of ROG, Wallace, Quinny etc actually were... they were the guys who would have literally died for that jersey.


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    #490
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    kuang1 wrote: »
    And can anyone out there explain to me the logic of offering him a 1 year extension to his contract before we were even half way through the season?

    1) The fear that what happened to Leinster, might happen to them, and they would be left high and dry, without any serious coach willing to take the gig (and Munster would have to look less appealing to any ambitious coach that Leinster), and have to toss it to yet another of their old-boys.

    2) They also, see that the raw material he has to work with is very mediocre. And so little to gain by taking the risk of 1) above when they can tie him down and work on higher priority solutions (buy-ins, player skills, academy development, etc).

    You're welcome in advance.


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    #491
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    I rate Foley as a coach, but we need to get a DoR in above him. Morale and confidence is gone in the camp, and change from the top down is the only way of rectifying things.

    Unfortunately I think Buer in a previous post was right. If you bring someone above Foley, then Foley's position is pretty much untenable. Either Foley is kept on as head coach or he goes.


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    #492
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Worrying times for Munster. They won't sell many season tickets off this. Is this the future for the Irish provinces - a lot of money coming into the English and French leagues.
    The good European days certainly shortened the winter. Pity that there seems so little talent coming through at Munster.
    Getting rid of Penney hasn't worked out too well. Anthony Foley has looked doomed ever since that list was leaked detailing various players's weaknesses. His own and the coaches report cards aren't looking too good.

    It is a shame as there are some decent players there in POM, Zebo, Kilcoyne, Cronin, Stander, JOD, TOD, Murray and Earls. Saili could be good too if they passed the ball a bit more. They look poorly coached. No real purpose about their play. When your kicker can't convert his goals you will always struggle.

    Some of the other players are just not good enough or are always injured. Donncha Ryan is constantly injured. They need 2 new 2nd rows.


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    #493
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Chisholm, someone who I was delighted we signed, has been a disappointment.


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    #494
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Jamie Heaslip
    former total wrote: »
    Have a good feeling about this. A weakened Stade side, Munster need to win - I think they'll do it.

    This was my pre match prediction and for the first 15 minutes or so I was still confident it would pan out.

    But Munster failed to threaten and Stade realised they were there for the taking.

    It's hard to be positive about any aspect of it really. The tackling for some of those tries was just woeful. The scrum, jesus. Chisholm, Foley, Copeland, were any of them on the pitch? Chisholm has been a massive disappointment since he arrived.

    They need more players of better quality. I don't think Foley is doing a great job but he has unquestionably the weakest Munster squad of the pro era so he has a tough job.


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    #495
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Its days like today that your realise how good the likes of ROG, Wallace, Quinny etc actually were... they were the guys who would have literally died for that jersey.

    That great team were something else. Not a weak link there at all. Practically an entire team of leaders.


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    #496
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    mfceiling wrote: »
    That great team were something else. Not a weak link there at all. Practically an entire team of leaders.

    Thats the thing. That quality in quantity is just not there now. No point executing Axel for that.


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    #497
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    mfceiling wrote: »
    That great team were something else. Not a weak link there at all. Practically an entire team of leaders.

    There were a lot of very average players in that Munster setup back then too - John O'Neill on the wing an example - but they did have great leaders and characters and had a gameplan that matched their strengths.

    A lot of those players came through the club system and had that hardness and Munster ethic driven into them. The current young bunch are coming through the academy. Bringing average guys like Conway into the setup doesn't add to that either.

    They need big players in key positions like TH, 2nd row and outhalf.
    They could bring in a big name at TH as the other provinces have Irish THs or project players.

    Is Eddie O'Sullivan worth a go?


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    #498
    Crimsonforce
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Crimsonforce


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    There were a lot of very average players in that Munster setup back then too - John O'Neill on the wing an example - but they did have great leaders and characters and had a gameplan that matched their strengths.

    A lot of those players came through the club system and had that hardness and Munster ethic driven into them. The current young bunch are coming through the academy. Bringing average guys like Conway into the setup doesn't add to that either.

    They need big players in key positions like TH, 2nd row and outhalf.
    They could bring in a big name at TH as the other provinces have Irish THs or project players.

    Is Eddie O'Sullivan worth a go?

    Eddie is absolutely worth it to bring in on a coaching ticket.. ffs he is doing nothing apart from media work...


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    #499
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Crimsonforce wrote: »
    Eddie is absolutely worth it to bring in on a coaching ticket.. ffs he is doing nothing apart from media work...

    There must be a good reason why he's doing media work instead of coaching rugby somewhere...


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    #500
    Crimsonforce
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Crimsonforce


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    There must be a good reason why he's doing media work instead of coaching rugby somewhere...

    So you think the current Munster coaching set up is stronger without Eddie osuillvan in it?


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    #501
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    There must be a good reason why he's doing media work instead of coaching rugby somewhere...

    Underappreciation.


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    #502
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Well he was officially still contracted to BO until a few weeks ago.


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    #503
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    There must be a good reason why he's doing media work instead of coaching rugby somewhere...

    Didn't he burns his bridges with the irfu went he had a whinge in the media about not being considered for the connacht job?


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    #504
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Well he was officially still contracted to BO until a few weeks ago.

    A huge plus on his CV where Munster are concerned. Munster in their current form would be a doddle compared to BO in the last year or so.


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    #505
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Crimsonforce wrote: »
    So you think the current Munster coaching set up is stronger without Eddie osuillvan in it?
    Maybe Eddie isn't the best man given the ticket we currently have? It takes more than knowledge to make it work.
    Biarritz booted him very early on; that's a warning sign. Learn from the mistakes of others.
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Underappreciation.
    Maybe...or maybe he isn't good enough for the position? I genuinely don't know which.


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    #506
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,041 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Didn't he burns his bridges with the irfu went he had a whinge in the media about not being considered for the connacht job?

    He and the IRFU didn't split amicably back in 2008 so the damage was done long before.

    He would, without a shadow of a doubt, improve the current Munster coaching ticket if he joined.


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    #507
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    A huge plus on his CV where Munster are concerned. Munster in their current form would be a doddle compared to BO in the last year or so.

    Big club from the south west going through a difficult period. Pushun lacking... the application letter writes itself.


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    #508
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Even if he was just the backs coach he would bring them on an awful lot. He could be got for handy money too. Might be impossible as long as Foley is there but Anthony could do with someone of his coaching experience.

    Still their big problems are at TH 2nd row and outhalf and they will need players to come in.


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    #509
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Maybe Eddie isn't the best man given the ticket we currently have? It takes more than knowledge to make it work.
    Biarritz booted him very early on; that's a warning sign. Learn from the mistakes of others.

    Maybe...or maybe he isn't good enough for the position? I genuinely don't know which.

    You need to look closer at the mess Biarritz have become. Short version: If you think Munster are bad...


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    #510
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭kuang1


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Thats the thing. That quality in quantity is just not there now. No point executing Axel for that.

    I strongly disagree.

    This current crop of players are not necessarily stellar, but imo the management are getting around 25% of the player's potential out of them, no more.


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    #511
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    kuang1 wrote: »
    I strongly disagree.

    This current crop of players are not necessarily stellar, but imo the management are getting around 25% of the player's potential out of them, no more.

    Then we agree to strongly disagree. ;)

    Unreasonable expectation and the weight of history may be another factor weighing down the current setup.


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