Stade Francais vs Munster, Sat 9th January 4:45 Irish time; Sky Sports

CMOTDibbler

I actually feel sorry for Foley. It clearly is beyond him and it's killing him. He needs real help from an experienced coach.

errlloyd

Jesus, Axel was quite clearly teary eyed. I'm in bits for him. He can't keep doing the job.

gmurphy70

Not too many call ups to the 6 nations squad, Murray and Stander. Front row appalling,Zebo, Earls so. Poor. Zebo has gone backwards and there is no way he should be near an irish team. So sad for all the Munster fans,Quinlan is right. Eddie O Sullivan needed sooner than later, Foley should walk and bring the boys club with him.

Hagz

O'Connell and O'Mahony are missed anyway, that's for sure.

stadedublinois

Blackclaret wrote: »

Macalou scored a super try in blue against our u20s last year, looked a freak then looks a super star today. Just cannot see Foleys contract extended after that.

Even without the try he was man of the match. Some great tackles and excellent in the lineout.

thomond2006

Hire a new head coach and keep Foley as forwards coach. I'd hate to lose Foley after the job he did under Penney.

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

There's not a rugby fan from any province who wants to see this slide continue.
Where do they go from here?

As a Leinster Supporter I agree, terrible to see. The slide started in April 09 (not saying we caused it but that's where it started for me) and bar beating us in May 11 to win the title Munster have been a shadow, and a faint one at that, of the true Giant that they used to be.

Where do you start ? With the management team first. It's easy to make a replacement there and it has to be a SH coaching team. You may not like it but the traditional "Munster" style doesn't translate to the current game well. It takes time to change the playing staff and you have to fight and work with the IRFU to replace players. There is talent there and you first and foremost need to get 100% out of them, at best you are getting 75% from some.

Most importantly get rid of Keatley he's a lame duck and can't kick snow off a rope. How long do you give a lame duck a chance to improve. It might be too late if you don't make the semis and you finish 4th for the European places. Zebo also needs to be allowed go let him go to France, he'll get a dose of cop on and a kick up the arse playing for some small team over there.

I want Munster to be a force again, without them Leinster and Ulster and Connacht cannot improve and Ireland need them to bounce back. We need serious provincial competition again one that brings out the best in each and every province.

aimee1

gmurphy70 wrote: »

Not too many call ups to the 6 nations squad, Murray and Stander. Front row appalling,Zebo, Earls so. Poor. Zebo has gone backwards and there is no way he should be near an irish team. So sad for all the Munster fans,Quinlan is right. Eddie O Sullivan needed sooner than later, Foley should walk and bring the boys club with him.

Saili is a waste of money.

The Rape of Lucretia

Lornacons1 wrote: »

But Munster need a back room clear out.

Dont think the solution there lies.
And I was loudly for the sacking of MOC as necessary for Leinster to get out of the downward slide last year (with plenty of vilification here too before it was fashionable to do so). But I believed Leinster had the players.

Foley may be no great shakes. But for the moment, its more a case of the jury being out. The players just arent there. Yes, they could play with more passion, be more motivated, put the bodies on the line etc. But you have to be at a threshold level for that to be possible and have an effect. And Munster arent even at that. 3 or 4 key players of high level might be all that is needed.

Feeling the IRFU should be stepping in at this point to help on that front to ensure they get some.

molloyjh

I actually forgot that Earls was playing in that. Even Murray, who wasn't bad so much, didn't stand out. Stander did well at times but I felt went missing at times.

Murray has enough credit in the bank to warrant selection but that's it IMO. Zebo was very poor. Keatley, well what can I say there!? The set piece was a shambles and Killer was all at sea for the first try.

I feel awful about it, but there needs to be big changes in Munster.

errlloyd

Does Anthony Foley need a DOR? Someone like David Humphreys or Conor O Shea. (in style, not actually those people)

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

I actually forgot that Earls was playing in that. Even Murray, who wasn't bad so much, didn't stand out. Stander did well at times but I felt went missing at times.

Murray has enough credit in the bank to warrant selection but that's it IMO. Zebo was very poor. Keatley, well what can I say there!? The set piece was a shambles and Killer was all at sea for the first try.

I feel awful about it, but there needs to be big changes in Munster.

I thought earls did good in the first half. Had a few good touches early on, nice kick along the ground etc. Second half was a shambles all round. I know leinster are out already but they put it up to Toulon twice. They never gave up.

Utopia Parkway

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for Foley. It clearly is beyond him and it's killing him. He needs real help from an experienced coach.

Munster paying for appointing a jobs for the boys coaching ticket (Foley, O'Driscoll, Flannery, etc). Not the only problem mind.

molloyjh

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Munster paying for appointing a jobs for the boys coaching ticket (Foley, O'Driscoll, Flannery, etc). Not the only problem mind.

That doesn't help but there are far more fundamental issues with Munster Rugby as a whole.

BBDBB

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for Foley. It clearly is beyond him and it's killing him. He needs real help from an experienced coach.

errlloyd wrote: »

Jesus, Axel was quite clearly teary eyed. I'm in bits for him. He can't keep doing the job.

Sad to see, I hope that in the inevitable ousting of Axel that he is treated with dignity. I also hope that he is given further time and opportunity to learn his trade as a coach as it would be a shame to lose his experience

CMOTDibbler

Leadership is clearly missing. Some players need on-pitch ass kicking and there's nobody there to do it. Then there's a lack of quality players in certain positions. Tight five, back row, centre and out half.

Some of these are injury created but back up is thin to nonexistent.

Sanjuro

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Foley may be no great shakes. But for the moment, its more a case of the jury being out. The players just arent there.

Absolute nonsense. This is where the problem lies. Foley has certainly earned his reputation as a player, but as a head coach, he's completely out of his depth. I would hate to see him treated badly, but he needs to go.

aimee1

BBDBB wrote: »

Sad to see, I hope that in the inevitable ousting of Axel that he is treated with dignity. I also hope that he is given further time and opportunity to learn his trade as a coach as it would be a shame to lose his experience

will greenwood summed it up best, they need an outside voice. I think JS has identified that with the andy farrell appointment. When JS announced the irish RWC squad he looked completely drained. The whole process of selecting the final 5-6 places [25 were pretty much automatic] took its toll. You could see it in his face and hear it in his voice. Watching Foley there reminded me of that but this is an ongoing issue.

Green farmer

Back in the day, we had a pack that used to pressurise and beat up the opposition, a number 10 that used to punish them and a decent competent backline, coupled with street smart coaching staff.
Sadly, how would you describe the current team ?

Hagz

The root issue lies at grass roots level. Player development has been an issue for far too long.

Larbre34

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

You would hope for Munsters sake that Keatley doesn't start again.

Ever.

His nerves are shot. Sorry for the guy and all but he's not fit to play in any top team, perhaps for good.

CMOTDibbler

On a slightly more humorous note; Will Greenwood looked and sounded like the undertaker talking to the bereaved (Quinny).

All he needed was the black topcoat.

CMOTDibbler

Green farmer wrote: »

Back in the day, we had a pack that used to pressurise and beat up the opposition, a number 10 that used to punish them and a decent competent backline, coupled with street smart coaching staff.
Sadly, how would you describe the current team ?

That game is gone now and Munster haven't adapted. The one guy who tried was resisted and is gone and there aren't even half the players of the quality of that team.

funtime93

People will say it's the players fault but foley has to take the blame for consistently selecting Keatley when he's clearly not good enough. Can see why JJ left now. I know he wasn't playing great last season either but at least he's young and has the potential to become a proper 10. How many chances has Keatley had now? And how many dire performances will it take for foley to realise he's not good enough and must be dropped. Can't tackle, can't place kick, kicking out on the full . I actually feel sorry for him that he gets selected every week like he's hardly going to say no don't pick me is he. The difference a top quality 10 would make to that team would be huge.

The Rape of Lucretia

Green farmer wrote: »

Sadly, how would you describe the current team ?

Far too many mediocre players.

Really, if given free pluck, which ones would Leinster or Ulster choose ?
Leinster would have Murray in a heartbeat. Bit ANYONE else ? I dont thing there is another player that would bring anything.
Ulster, Stander. And probably thats it too.

Which is not to say that Leinster and Ulster are squads of star world beaters. Far from. But that the Munster squad would have diddly squat of interest too their starting 23s is surely very damning.

Sure, sack Foley. I do think the appointment of good ole boys is a bad policy (Leinster have made the same mistake but had backed themselves into a corner with no alternative). But it will be another couple of years of woe if the only change of substance (and I dont mean the structural questions raised about Munster - they are even more of a red herring) is changing the coaching ticket.

Hagz

funtime93 wrote: »

People will say it's the players fault but foley has to take the blame for consistently selecting Keatley when he's clearly not good enough. Can see why JJ left now. I know he wasn't playing great last season either but at least he's young and has the potential to become a proper 10. How many chances has Keatley had now? And how many dire performances will it take for foley to realise he's not good enough and must be dropped. Can't tackle, can't place kick, kicking out on the full . I actually feel sorry for him that he gets selected every week like he's hardly going to say no don't pick me is he. The difference a top quality 10 would make to that team would be huge.

Who else is he supposed to pick?

The Rape of Lucretia

Hagz wrote: »

Matt O'Connor is not the Problem.

True. (well maybe he is someone else's problem now).

Compare Leinster's trajectory over the last two years, and Munsters. Entirely different medicine needed.

Hagz

Did you just quote my sig?

Well that's one way to take the thread off topic :pac:

Clegg

If we're talking about Munster players who'd start for Leinster then I think there'd only be Murray, PoM and Earls. Player development is a massive problem at Munster.

razorblunt

aimee1 wrote: »

I thought earls did good in the first half. Had a few good touches early on, nice kick along the ground etc. Second half was a shambles all round. I know leinster are out already but they put it up to Toulon twice. They never gave up.

Superman does good, Earls did well! :pac:

That's just it you'd accept a loss, but I've never seen a Munster team throw in a towel like that.

I'd be reluctant to let Zebo start again until he proves himself, he's done nothing of note for a while now.