Why do you hate Irish?

Caoimhgh1n

sryanbruen wrote: »

Again the only thing that makes me hate Irish is the way they put so much of the marks on grammar and the teaching of literature!

It's annoying me how many comments this thread is getting regarding the teaching of Irish. We all know there should be:

- More oral / talking / conversational Irish
- Less grammar
- Less literature

Like even though most of the marks on some questions go for accurate grammar, I don't even learn much grammar in school, I have to teach myself it using grammar books such as Graiméar an Draoi. It is very annoying how I'm not being taught properly! Luckily also, I ask on the Irish forum of certain grammar points where I'm struggling such as what's the difference between Dá and Má. An File is very helpful he makes my learning of Irish so much easier!

Grammar is important, is there any reason why you feel less grammar should be taught? Considering you said you don't learn enough in school and have to teach yourself.

Carlos Orange

Shurimgreat wrote: »

We need more Irish taught at school not less.

I'm sure we would all be speaking Irish in everyday life if only we were forced to do a little more of it in school.

sryanbruen

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Grammar is important, is there any reason why you feel less grammar should be taught? Considering you said you don't learn enough in school and have to teach yourself.

No I mean as in more emphasis on conversational Irish and less on grammar! This is because once ya know how to talk Irish from conversations, you don't even need to learn most of the grammar! Like how 80/90% of the marks in the story go for grammar and if I was marking stories, I would go with equal marks on interesting plot and grammar.

munchkin_utd

sryanbruen wrote: »

No I mean as in more emphasis on conversational Irish and less on grammar! This is because once ya know how to talk Irish from conversations, you don't even need to learn most of the grammar! Like how 80/90% of the marks in the story go for grammar and if I was marking stories, I would go with equal marks on interesting plot and grammar.

+1

language in essence is easy. Learn a few verbs, thrown in a few nouns and away you go.
When I went to the gaeltacht , I didnt learn any more Irish, I just learnt to ignore a heap of the grammar and distill what is needed into almost a cheat sheet in my head, and started from there.

Its the same with a foreign european language.
If you know "I am" "I want" "I go" etc, add a few nouns on top and presto you're able to have a conversation.
If anything, then you get a bit of frustration and want the grammar to do more tricks with the language but it should be speak first and then deal with the nuances of the frustrating grammar, not the other way round.

I've 2 kids who can speak german and english since they were 2, and like every kid they start with basic sentences and over time it gets more complicated, so if its good enough for kids to start simple get to a conversation level and then get more complicated, then why dont adults learn that way too in school ?

sryanbruen

D’éirigh mé as an leaba. Maidin chiúin a bhí ann. Bhí mé préachta leis an bhfuacht. Chuir mé mo chuid éadaí scoile orm. Chuaigh mé go dtí an chistin chun mo bhricfeasta a dhéanamh. D’ith mé arán donn agus pancóga. Dhúisigh mo dheartháir i ndeireadh na dála ansin. Gan moille, rith mé go dtí an seomra folctha agus scuab mé mo fhiacla. Tar éis sin, thosaigh mé ag éisteacht le mo iPod agus bhí mé ar mo bhealach chun na scoile.

Ní ghnáth lá a bhí ann. Bhí na ranganna fada. Áfach, rud amháin suimiúil a tharla ná ghlac mé páirt i ndráma beag. Bhí na haisteoirí eile an-cumasach i mo thuairim. Bhí ionadh an domhain orm. Bhí mo chroí i mo bhéal ar an stáitse. Thug an lucht féachana bualadh bos dúinn. Ba é an lá a barr riamh. Tar éis sin a tharla, bhí scoil thar. Thaistil mé ar mo rothar abhaile.

Go tobann, baineadh geit asam. D’éist mé go gear mar chuala mé gunnaí a scaoileadh. Chonaic mé na robálaithe ag an mbainc. Bhí mé ag crith le heagla. Ghlaoigh bean ar na Gardaí ansin. Bhí imníoch orm chuici. Robáil na robálaithe a lán airgid as an mbainc. Luigh mé ansin gan focal asam. Rud eile a rinne na robálaithe gur bhagair siad na daoine an mbainc taobh amuigh. Ní raibh gíog ná míog as éinne. Ní raibh fonn orm a throid. Shocraigh mé ansin a bhogadh. Chonaic na robálaithe mé ag imithe. Lig mé scread asam. Ba bheag nár thit an t-anam asam leis an scanradh. Lean siad mé timpeall na háite.

Chonaic na Gardaí na robálaithe. Bhí teannas os cionn an mheáin. Thiomáin na Gardaí ar luas lasrach agus rug siad na robálaithe ansin. Tugadh siad síob chun na cúirte dóibh. Ní raibh an breitheamh sásta agus ní raibh ceachtar an coiste cúirte. Bhí an banc folamh. Mhothaigh gach duine brón don bhainc. Shocraíomar ar fad a tabhairt airgid don bhainc. Tugadh na robálaithe síob chun na príosúin dóibh ansin buíochas le Dia. Lig mé osna sástachta asam. Bhí an baile sábháilte arís. Cuimhneoidh mé an robáil sin go lá mo bháis.

^ see how I try to write interesting stories for my course. I love how I made the phrase "Bhí teannas os cionn an mheáin" (Tension was at its highest) without any research.

English translation:

I got up out of bed. It was a quiet morning. I was frozen with the cold. I put my school clothes on. I went to the kitchen to make my breakfast. I ate brown bread and pancakes. My brother finally woke up then. Without delay, I ran up to the bathroom and I brushed my teeth. After that, I started listening to my iPod and I was on my way to school.

It wasn't a normal day. The classes were long. However, one interesting thing that happened was that I took part in a little drama. The other actors were very talented in my opinion. I was very surprised. My heart was in my mouth on the stage. The audience gave us a standing ovation. It was the best day ever. After that happened, school was over. I rode my bike home.

Suddenly, I got a fright. I listened carefully because I heard guns fire. I saw the robbers at the bank. I was shaking with fear. A woman called the Gardaí then. I was worried about her. The robbers robbed a lot of money out of the bank. I laid out without a word. Another thing that the robbers did was that they threatened the people outside the bank. There wasn't a sound out of anyone. I wasn't in the mood to fight. I decided then to move. The robbers saw me moving away. I let a roar out of me. My soul nearly fell out with a fright. They followed me around the place.

The Gardaí saw the robbers. Tension was at its highest. The Gardaí drove at a ferocious pace and they caught the robbers then. They were brought to court. The judge wasn't happy and neither was the jury. The bank was empty. Everybody felt sorry for the bank. We all decided to give money away to the bank. The robbers were brought to prison then thanks be to God. I let out a sigh of happiness. The town was safe again. I will remember that robbery forever.

sryanbruen

I remember writing a letter about an album I bought (topic of the letter on my paper; Christmas Exam) and I put Imríonn sé an Giotár agus an Pianó :pac::p:o. How silly of me, I meant to put Seinneann sé

Easca Peasca

sryanbruen wrote: »

I remember writing a letter about an album I bought (topic of the letter on my paper; Christmas Exam) and I put Imríonn sé an Giotár agus an Pianó :pac::p:o. How silly of me, I meant to put Seinneann sé

I've written some howlers too, none come to mind but I remember feeling very foolish more than once

As with every language I assume, I love being able to switch between grammar and general vocab when it comes to learning Irish.

sryanbruen

For my classmates and students on studyclix, I try to make learning Irish more fun and easy. Most of them say that I have been very successful and have helped them a lot. They say that I should 100% be a teacher even though I'm 15?? . Like I speak Irish with them. I give them sample answers on literature in English as well as Irish. Exercise sheets include every sentence in the sample answers in English and the student has to translate into Irish - therefore, they know what they're actually writing down!

Am I the only "teacher" here who actually doesn't give a damn about the dumb syllabus and just teach the student the way Irish SHOULD BE taught??

Dughorm

Surprising article in today's Irish Times noting that the cancelled tg4 leaders' debate is a real indictment of our approach to language.

I'm don't agree with his assertion that 40% Oral Irish is a bad thing but the whole dumbing down phenomenon he describes so eloquently is very real.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/opinion-cancelled-tg4-leaders-debate-speaks-volumes-about-attitudes-to-irish-1.2538522

Enda Kenny was fortunate to grow up in a time when it was normal that people who attained a certain degree of education also learned Irish. I suspect that if he was much younger he would be more stuttering in the language than he is now.
He was also lucky in training to be a teacher at a time which required that some modicum of knowledge of something or other, or even anything at all, was important. On the other hand he has presided over the destruction of knowledge-based teacher education in favour of tricky-dicky methodological banality which means that no young fella like him will ever learn Irish, or anything else, as he did.

The recent dumbing-down of the language to the ritual 10 minutes of what is your name, and who is your brother, and what do you eat for breakfast as 40 per cent of the Leaving Cert will shortly be seen as a disaster.

But then we are almost quite exceptional in our steadfast monolingualism.

Carlos Orange

Dughorm wrote: »

I'm don't agree with his assertion that 40% Oral Irish is a bad thing but the whole dumbing down phenomenon he describes so eloquently is very real.

The recent dumbing-down of the language to the ritual 10 minutes of what is your name

Not sure that is all that recent.

inmy64

Won't learn something I will never need to know. Probably could have gotten an A in the leaving cert but got a D1 without study. Its pointless having to do it for the leaving but agree with it for the junior cert.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sryanbruen wrote: »

Am I the only "teacher" here who actually doesn't give a damn about the dumb syllabus and just teach the student the way Irish SHOULD BE taught??

Yes, unfortunately.

Althoguh I think they do give a damn, but their hands are tied.

Another qursiotn would be: how many of your friends are listening to you because they want to learn, and how many are interested because they want a grade on an exam?

sryanbruen

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Yes, unfortunately.

Althoguh I think they do give a damn, but their hands are tied.

Another qursiotn would be: how many of your friends are listening to you because they want to learn, and how many are interested because they want a grade on an exam?

All of the ones who actually care about their education and not mess around in class. They tell me their grades and I can see who is trying!

The Rape of Lucretia

psinno wrote: »

I'm sure we would all be speaking Irish in everyday life if only we were forced to do a little more of it in school.

I think the slippery slope was the ending of corporal punishment in schools.
We stopped loving Irish when it couldn't be beaten into us any more to make us love it whether we wanted to or not. Not that I am advocating a return to school beatings, but you cant have everything.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sryanbruen wrote: »

All of the ones who actually care about their education and not mess around in class. They tell me their grades and I can see who is trying!

Caring about their education and wanting good grades is fair enough, but that's kind of my point: if you're leanring Irish for the sole purpose of getting a grade, that implies that you're not learning it becuse you want to speak it.

sryanbruen

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Caring about their education and wanting good grades is fair enough, but that's kind of my point: if you're leanring Irish for the sole purpose of getting a grade, that implies that you're not learning it becuse you want to speak it.

Yeah whilst a few actually want to speak it with me

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sryanbruen wrote: »

Yeah whilst a few actually want to speak it with me

This needs to be encouraged - best of luck with it!