The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

formerlyET

Pogue eile wrote: »

No more or less than any other county I think. We could all probably confidently name 11-12 of the team that will start against Waterford/Clare and we know what way Tipp will hurl. My stab at the Championship 15 would be;

Barry Hogan

C Barrett P Maher B Heffernan

B Maher S Kennedy R Maher

A Flynn P Cadell

N McGrath S Callanan D McCormack

Bubbles J Forde J McGrath

That 15 would give any team a good run for their money. We have some good options off the bench then as well such as W Connors, J Morris, M Keohe, M Breen, B McGrath, N O'Meara and B O'Mara

I'd agree with most of that.
I'd be asking myself though - do we need the physical presence of Dan in midfield but we are missing Bonner in the half line now.
Cadell is a natural player - a real reader of the game and can open up a defence but has he arrived yet? Got caught in possession a few times against Galway. He is on the smaller side, but he is the opposite of Breen. Maybe they're a pairing, but Breen hasn't been consistent. I'd go for Cadell too at midfield because we need that kind of creativity and reading of the game there if Noelie is up front.
I think Flynn gets better every year - but has he found the consistency and confidence required yet? I think he might be ready to take off at this level, it's a big year for him.
Why Callanan at 11?

Pogue eile

formerlyET wrote: »

I'd agree with most of that.
I'd be asking myself though - do we need the physical presence of Dan in midfield but we are missing Bonner in the half line now.
Cadell is a natural player - a real reader of the game and can open up a defence but has he arrived yet? Got caught in possession a few times against Galway. He is on the smaller side, but he is the opposite of Breen. Maybe they're a pairing, but Breen hasn't been consistent. I'd go for Cadell too at midfield because we need that kind of creativity and reading of the game there if Noelie is up front.
I think Flynn gets better every year - but has he found the consistency and confidence required yet? I think he might be ready to take off at this level, it's a big year for him.
Why Callanan at 11?

Yeah 8-12 are the most open I think. I really like Cadell and he brings great energy, my biggest fear, and it touches on what you said about loosing possession, is that he seems very one sided.

Breen is an enigma, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground with him, either outstanding or awful, think he might be better off the bench.

Callanan at 11 is really only because I think Forde is a far better Full Forward than he is anywhere else, whereas Seamie is more versatile and his work rate is higher off the ball. In reality the way Tipp play the forwards will rotate like mad so I don't think its a big deal where they actually start.

Sheedy showed in particular in 2019 that he is very flexible re positions and likes to play horses for courses and get the match ups right, I think depending on the opposition both of the McGraths could spend time at 11 as well, particularly when the opposition are playing a very deep centre back. Same applies with our defenders, I would say with the exception of Barrett any of the other 5 would be comfortable in any of the 6 defensive positions.

Ompala

Pogue eile wrote: »

No more or less than any other county I think. We could all probably confidently name 11-12 of the team that will start against Waterford/Clare and we know what way Tipp will hurl. My stab at the Championship 15 would be;

Barry Hogan

C Barrett P Maher B Heffernan

B Maher S Kennedy R Maher

A Flynn P Cadell

N McGrath S Callanan D McCormack

Bubbles J Forde J McGrath

That 15 would give any team a good run for their money. We have some good options off the bench then as well such as W Connors, J Morris, M Keohe, M Breen, B McGrath, N O'Meara and B O'Mara

Yeah I'd go along with most of that, in my opinion Barry Hogan in goal works better over Brian Hogan. He seems a better shot stopper. The backs seem relatively set, its midfield up that gets harder. Flynn is a great workhorse in the middle, Cadell is young but very capable while Breen is outstanding on his day but horribly inconsistent. Could Noel go to midfield and Breen in half forward for parts of games? I do like Seamie out in around half forward as he has the physical presence nd can pick passes. Forde is best at 14. Will John McGrath start?
Lots to ponder, its been a good league so far, tested players and with a bit of luck could have won all 4 games, setting up nicely for championship.

Mantis Toboggan

Barrett can play anywhere, grew up playing in the half back line, has played in midfield for tipp and plays midfield or in the forwards for the club.

Think the backs are fairly well settled, there's definitely a few spots up for grabs and sheedy will be swayed by good performances this weekend.

I like Breen, strong powerful runner, athletic, physical, has nearly everything but gets let down sometimes by his decision making and positioning, think he lacks a bit of hurling cuteness, off the ball movement etc.

This weekend we need to see more from Seamie, Bubbles, Morris, Brian McGrath, Cadell, Brendan and keogh, hopefully we'll see a bit more of Morgan and Quigley also.

Pogue eile

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Barrett can play anywhere, grew up playing in the half back line, has played in midfield for tipp and plays midfield or in the forwards for the club.

The only reason I excluded Barret from that particular group is that there is no way he will ever be full back under any circumstances, all of the other 5 have played there at some point. I don't think he will ever spend time at centre back either, it negates his best qualities.

Pogue eile

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

This weekend we need to see more from Seamie, Bubbles, Morris, Brian McGrath, Cadell, Brendan and keogh, hopefully we'll see a bit more of Morgan and Quigley also.

Be very interesting to see the line up for this weekend, for Tipp it is effectively a League Semi final and I suspect Sheedy would like to keep the unbeaten run and momentum going. On the other hand some of our players have played all the matches so far and may need a rest.

Joe_ Public

I see Barrett as a no.2 as well, sure could play elsewhere if needed but that's where i want him, pick pocketing corner forwards and setting us off on the attack. Be great to see the swashbuckling 2016 version again, though I'd happily settle for 75-80% of that if we got it. I get the notion about being fluid in our backline but i dont know how much of that you want exactly when so much of our recent success has been built around the defensive wall between 5 and 7. Paidi at full back does have a certain amount of logic behind it, the days of the traditional edge of the square stopper are probably done for good now.

portlaoisepal

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I see Barrett as a no.2 as well, sure could play elsewhere if needed but that's where i want him, pick pocketing corner forwards and setting us off on the attack. Be great to see the swashbuckling 2016 version again, though I'd happily settle for 75-80% of that if we got it. I get the notion about being fluid in our backline but i dont know how much of that you want exactly when so much of our recent success has been built around the defensive wall between 5 and 7. Paidi at full back does have a certain amount of logic behind it, the days of the traditional edge of the square stopper are probably done for good now.

Flynn and Cadell would be eaten alive mid field

Joe_ Public

portlaoisepal wrote: »

Flynn and Cadell would be eaten alive mid field

Well, i wouldn't be of the opinion that will be our starting championship midfield but time will tell i guess.

formerlyET

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Well, i wouldn't be of the opinion that will be our starting championship midfield but time will tell i guess.

I'd like to see Dan and Brendan in the middle. I think that gives us readers of the game, tactical nous, creativity, defensive cover, and score taking ability in the center of the field.

Kennedy at center. Ronan and one of B McGrath/Byrne on the wings (because O'Mara is out although the word is he is healing well). I think a good scenario is one of those young men can do a job at wing back. And John McG can put in a regular shift on the half line like he did in the final in 2019 (a la hooking the likes of Walter Walsh through on goal) and contributing up front.

Joe_ Public

formerlyET wrote: »

I'd like to see Dan and Brendan in the middle. I think that gives us readers of the game, tactical nous, creativity, defensive cover, and score taking ability in the center of the field.

Kennedy at center. Ronan and one of B McGrath/Byrne on the wings (because O'Mara is out although the word is he is healing well). I think a good scenario is one of those young men can do a job at wing back. And John McG can put in a regular shift on the half line like he did in the final in 2019 (a la hooking the likes of Walter Walsh through on goal) and contributing up front.

There is certainly a world of difference between a Flynn/Cadell pairing and a Dan/B Maher one! Like many, I'm a fan of Cadell, but inclined to think one more year of growth left in him for the level required. More than willing to be proved wrong on that, naturally!

If you don't think we are suffering unduly elsewhere, then that is a really solid pairing. I also think Barry Heff could do a good job there and ultimately he'll develop into a central role but may be another year or two down the line.

All that said, my guess is we'll start off with Breen/Flynn partnership in the middle. You said yourself about Sheedys conservatism and i think that will come through again. Great for cadell to get these games, but i dont see him as a starter, not yet.

Rasputin11

Some fella on Twitter is saying the Knockavilla boys got the transfer.

Lost Ormond

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Some fella on Twitter is saying the Knockavilla boys got the transfer.

who's claiming that???

Rasputin11

Lost Ormond wrote: »

who's claiming that???

A Stevie O Donnell, seemingly he's a journalist.

Mantis Toboggan

Rasputin11 wrote: »

A Stevie O Donnell, seemingly he's a journalist.

Noel Dundon also, seems common sense has prevailed and the lads can get on with their hurling, would have been a shame if they'd packed it in.

portlaoisepal

Rasputin11 wrote: »

A Stevie O Donnell, seemingly he's a journalist.

Journalist?
my hloe

formerlyET

What's done is done. Let that issue go to bed. Let them hurl away now.

Lost Ormond

Rasputin11 wrote: »

A Stevie O Donnell, seemingly he's a journalist.

portlaoisepal wrote: »

Journalist?
my hloe

Whats with all the negativity around this guy?

formerlyET

Sheedy said that Tipp only managed to retain 6 out of the first 17 balls put into the forwards during the first half against Westmeath. That's chronic. Sheedy said that's not acceptable. The forwards who didn't play probably saw their stock rise - Niall O'Meara, Bubbles, Jake Morris, and Kehoe.
Are we running head long into the serious issue that's only going to get worse?
We might need Dan and Noel in midfield. For their delivery.

Billy Ocean

formerlyET wrote: »

What's done is done. Let that issue go to bed. Let them hurl away now.

Hilarious seeing you saying 'Let that issue go to bed' given your constant attempts to re-hash the Clare/Wexford/Davy covid matter on other threads....

Ompala

formerlyET wrote: »

Sheedy said that Tipp only managed to retain 6 out of the first 17 balls put into the forwards during the first half against Westmeath. That's chronic. Sheedy said that's not acceptable. The forwards who didn't play probably saw their stock rise - Niall O'Meara, Bubbles, Jake Morris, and Kehoe.
Are we running head long into the serious issue that's only going to get worse?
We might need Dan and Noel in midfield. For their delivery.

The query I'd have - what type of ball was sent in, retention is going to be much lower in say a high dropping ball which favours a defender vs a low hopping ball in front of the forward. What I'm getting at is is it really the forwards or the type of ball going in to them from out the field. Without being at the games this is really hard to judge as you can't see what running is being done off the ball and what options are available. I did think vs Westmeath we started to work the ball through the lines much better as the game went on.

formerlyET

Billy Ocean wrote: »

Hilarious seeing you saying 'Let that issue go to bed' given your constant attempts to re-hash the Clare/Wexford/Davy covid matter on other threads....

Might seem like I'm rehashing? Or are there constant new developments?

I've discussed the transfers just as much - but it's gone through? I was against it. What do you want me to do? It's a dead duck. There's been a result and everything was out in the open. Can you say the same for the other issues?

Hilarious? Laugh it up, kid.

formerlyET

Ompala wrote: »

The query I'd have - what type of ball was sent in, retention is going to be much lower in say a high dropping ball which favours a defender vs a low hopping ball in front of the forward. What I'm getting at is is it really the forwards or the type of ball going in to them from out the field. Without being at the games this is really hard to judge as you can't see what running is being done off the ball and what options are available. I did think vs Westmeath we started to work the ball through the lines much better as the game went on.

That's a very good point. It's probably a mix of both. But I have found some of the ball going in, throughout the league, frustrating. Some of the best ball going in has come from Jason Forde and he should be inside. It's criminal at times. Booming sky high deliveries or huge point attempts over their heads, going wide.

Billy Ocean

formerlyET wrote: »

Might seem like I'm rehashing? Or are there constant new developments?

I've discussed the transfers just as much - but it's gone through? I was against it. What do you want me to do? It's a dead duck. There's been a result and everything was out in the open. Can you say the same for the other issues?

Hilarious? Laugh it up, kid.

I don't think the opinions of Mark Landers on a podcast would be considered new developments so yes definitely rehashing.

I'm not privee to in the in's and outs of the transfer matter I'll leave that to you good folk.

formerlyET

Billy Ocean wrote: »

I don't think the opinions of Mark Landers on a podcast would be considered new developments so yes definitely rehashing.

I'm not privee to in the in's and outs of the transfer matter I'll leave that to your good folk.

I think Landers point was very pointed. Considering himself and Daly seem to be close - it brought another layer of politics to the situation. It's getting bananas. And Brian Lohan brought it to the national media - is it not a topic for posting about? But you brought it up this time. Not me.

Us, good folk, will keep on trucking, best we can.

Billy Ocean

formerlyET wrote: »

I think Landers point was very pointed. Considering himself and Daly seem to be close - it brought another layer of politics to the situation. It's getting bananas. And Brian Lohan brought it to the national media - is it not a topic for posting about? But you brought it up this time. Not me.

Us, good folk, will keep on trucking, best we can.

how is it getting bananas? there hasn't been anything new on the topic in about 10 days or 2 weeks and how was the it 'very pointed' he was just speculating like you, me or anyone else does here.

formerlyET

Billy Ocean wrote: »

how is it getting bananas? there hasn't been anything new on the topic in about 10 days or 2 weeks and how was the it 'very pointed' he was just speculating like you, me or anyone else does here.

What Landers said was on a podcast only the other day. I listened to it and wanted to know what the Clare lads thought. Sound bunch on that thread.
And I'm done explaining myself to you about it. Oíche Mhaith

Pogue eile

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

common sense has prevailed and the lads can get on with their hurling

Can't agree at all, this is a bad day for Tipperary hurling.

The parish rule is the bedrock of the organisation and while it has been on shaky ground for a long time, this is definitive proof that it is indeed dead in the water.

Ok so the 4 lads in question get to play hurling, what about the four lads from Cashel that now don't get to play because 4 lads with intercounty pedigree have been parachuted in to their club?

Cashel will live to regret this, that I have no doubt of. Extremely short sighted of them.

Mantis Toboggan

Disputes happen all the time in clubs and players transfers to other clubs its just that these lads are high profile and moving to a club nearby which makes the most sense as they have family from there and its the most convenient.

It's nothing to do with the parish rule. Cashel voted to take them in, if they didn't transfer to them they could easily transfer to clubs up and down the country or pack in the hurling altogether. I'm just happy to see them still playing the game within the county.

I'd fancy Cashel to go deep into the championship this year. Its a bad situation all round and not one you'd want to see often but the board looked at the appeal and were happy enough to grant the move.

Pogue eile

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Disputes happen all the time in clubs and players transfers to other clubs its just that these lads are high profile and moving to a club nearby which makes the most sense as they have family from there and its the most convenient.

It's nothing to do with the parish rule. Cashel voted to take them in, if they didn't transfer to them they could easily transfer to clubs up and down the country or pack in the hurling altogether. I'm just happy to see them still playing the game within the county.

I'd fancy Cashel to go deep into the championship this year. Its a bad situation all round and not one you'd want to see often but the board looked at the appeal and were happy enough to grant the move.

If Cashel makes the most sense for them, why did they approach 5 other clubs first, all of whom told them where to go.

How is it nothing to do with the parish rule??The whole case is the parish rule and they have been very upfront that they don't now or don't ever intend in the future living in Cashel.

What do you think about the four born and bred Cashel players who will have trained and played with Cashel from U8 up to Senior who will now be cast aside because four lads fell out with their own club??

Cashel will go well in SOR especially if the rumours around Ryan O'Dwyer are true, but it will not be a good move long term. The four lads will come in and hurl away while they are still invloved with intercounty, they are using Cashel as a means to an end and the consequence is that four existing Cashel hurlers will be cast aside to allow this to happen, I suspect there will be a lot more that those four players who will be pissed off and Cashel will ultimately lose a lot more that four players.