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Shooting in California

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    #722
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Ireland is a country for Irish people, hundreds of thousands of people died so that we could be free, we owe absolutely nothing to anybody, the duty of the Irish state is to preserve the Irish people, nothing else, thats the basic duty of any state. Mass immigration flies in the face of that. What percentage of immigrants are we currently at in Ireland, 16% of the population? Rising every year, where do you stop? Its a black and white issue, either you believe every ethnic group has a right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland or you dont.
    I agree with the Israeli's on nothing, but I agree with them on that, a country is its people.

    What is the max percentage of a population that should be immigrants and what reasoning behind it other than its a number you made up?

    And your solution to that is to implement policies in a secular republic which use religion as a requirement so we can keep out the people who want religious laws to take priority? By the looks of it they are already here and they aren't Muslim. Muslims are 1% of the population so I doubt it will make a difference.


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    #723
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    What is the max percentage of a population that should be immigrants and what reasoning behind it other than its a number you made up?

    And your solution to that is to implement policies in a secular republic which use religion as a requirement so we can keep out the people who want religious laws to take priority? By the looks of it they are already here and they aren't Muslim. Muslims are 1% of the population so I doubt it will make a difference.
    The max percentage, we have gone over it.

    Over 50% of the population of the UAE are not native, none have been given UAE citizenship, all are guests, liable to leave when the government says so

    "Israel, despite being a liberal democratic country, is not an immigration country. Therefore, Israel does not have laws and regulations enabling foreigners who wish to come and settle Israel the opportunity to do so."


    Why do those countries,( Im sure there are more, I just googled) restrict who can and cannot stay/enter/become a citizen? Because they are all nazis who want to herd people into death camps?

    A country can impose any test it likes, why should we not? Should we just take in geriatrics, the disabled, people with TB, AIDS? Islamists? People who are culturally incompatible.

    Take someone like Ali Selim, what is he doing in Ireland? We have allowed someone in who is regressive in every sense, and then give him a platform. simply dont let these people in, no more terrorism, no more social unrest, problem solved


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    #724
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    The max percentage, we have gone over it.

    You're nearly there, we know its lower than 16%. Is it 15.9? or maybe 1? Or will you just keep being vague? You either know the number and the consequences of going above that number or you don't. Im starting the think the latter.
    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Over 50% of the population of the UAE are not native, none have been given UAE citizenship, all are guests, liable to leave when the government says so

    "Israel, despite being a liberal democratic country, is not an immigration country. Therefore, Israel does not have laws and regulations enabling foreigners who wish to come and settle Israel the opportunity to do so."


    Why do those countries,( Im sure there are more, I just googled) restrict who can and cannot stay/enter/become a citizen? Because they are all nazis who want to herd people into death camps?

    A country can impose any test it likes, why should we not? Should we just take in geriatrics, the disabled, people with TB, AIDS? Islamists? People who are culturally incompatible.

    Can they? Sure, you can ban women from voting, have the death penalty for being gay. A country can do all sorts of things. If it should or not is a completely different question. You pick out UAE, a country which uses Sharia law. One second we're being told their way of life is incompatible with ours and the next they are being used as examples to follow.
    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Take someone like Ali Selim, what is he doing in Ireland? We have allowed someone in who is regressive in every sense, and then give him a platform. simply dont let these people in, no more terrorism, no more social unrest, problem solved

    You want to throw people out who you disagree with. You want a PC thought police but will complain as soon as they look at you.


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    #725
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Herb Powell wrote: »
    "Are you a muslim?"

    "No"

    "K"

    =====> USA

    "You look Muslim."

    ===/===>USA. Or indeed someone is actually religious and has something on them identifying them as Muslim at which point it gets harder for ordinary people to lie about.
    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Ireland is a country for Irish people, hundreds of thousands of people died so that we could be free, we owe absolutely nothing to anybody, the duty of the Irish state is to preserve the Irish people, nothing else, thats the basic duty of any state. Mass immigration flies in the face of that. What percentage of immigrants are we currently at in Ireland, 16% of the population? Rising every year, where do you stop? Its a black and white issue, either you believe every ethnic group has a right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland or you dont.
    I agree with the Israeli's on nothing, but I agree with them on that, a country is its people.

    I believe that every ethnic group has the right to self preservation and to be free in their own homeland. The fact that a muslim family lives down the road from where I grew up has done absolutely nothing to change the fact that I am free and safe in my own country. Immigration does nothing to hurt the Irish state. You want to know where the people that have hurt the Irish state the most over the last 90 or so years have come from? Ireland.

    Hundreds of thousands of people died for freedom from the British Empire. So we could be free to make our own choices about our own country. It was because people felt they were being put down in the Empire because we where Irish. They did not fight for the right to judge others because of their own heritage. That would have been a stupid reason to die.

    I agree that a country is its people. I can only hope that I can be proud of my own when this is done.

    Look up nothing in the dictionary by the way.


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    #726
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    You're nearly there, we know its lower than 16%. Is it 15.9? or maybe 1? Or will you just keep being vague? You either know the number and the consequences of going above that number or you don't. Im starting the think the latter.



    Can they? Sure, you can ban women from voting, have the death penalty for being gay. A country can do all sorts of things. If it should or not is a completely different question. You pick out UAE, a country which uses Sharia law. One second we're being told their way of life is incompatible with ours and the next they are being used as examples to follow.



    You want to throw people out who you disagree with. You want a PC thought police but will complain as soon as they look at you.
    No exact number, but plenty of studies point out the social unrest and political instability that comes from mass immigration. We are currently at 16%, luckily only 5% mayebe less or so non europeans, so its largely confined to the ghettos of D15 and small locations around the country. Its not a large scale problem, but with the unemployment rate among african immigrants running at 36%https://www.esri.ie/news/ethnicity-and-nationality-in-the-irish-labour-market/ Its only a matter of time
    http://www.oecd.org/dev/pgd/46923664.pdf

    A stopped clock is right twice a day. A country could be the biggest dump or best country in the world, both will have a certain amount of good and bad ideas. Discarding a policy or idea because of its source is moronic.

    No I absolutely support total freedom of speech, but importing a Muslim Brotherhood acolyte to Ireland has nothing to do with that, If Tom McMuck wants to convert to Islam and start spouting about Sharia, off he goes, thats his freedom to do so. Its the height of stupidity however, to import these people, its a separate issue.

    The Iona institute can spout homophobic guff, they are a minority of the population, why would any sane person propose to increase the numbers of people who agree with them? Its madness, WE NEED MORE HOMOPHOBES AND FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, said no one ever


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    #727
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    No exact number

    It was the latter then. Good to know.


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    #728
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    No exact number, but plenty of studies point out the social unrest and political instability that comes from mass immigration. We are currently at 16%, luckily only 5% mayebe less or so non europeans, so its largely confined to the ghettos of D15 and small locations around the country.

    The Iona institute can spout homophobic guff, they are a minority of the population, why would any sane person propose to increase the numbers of people who agree with them? Its madness, WE NEED MORE HOMOPHOBES AND FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, said no one ever

    Oh good. In Ireland we can ban all Muslims and everyone from the southern US then. I know, I know, not everyone from the Southern US is a bible basher but there are plenty of them that are and until we have a good way of sorting them out we should just ban them all.
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/15/gay-marriage-arrives-in-the-south-where-the-public-is-less-enthused/


    Man I am so glad that there are plenty of studies. So many that in fact you weren't bothered to link a single one. Curious if those same studies also account for european immigrants which you feel makes a difference. Care to expand on why?


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    #729
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Oh good. In Ireland we can ban all Muslims and everyone from the southern US then. I know, I know, not everyone from the Southern US is a bible basher but there are plenty of them that are and until we have a good way of sorting them out we should just ban them all.
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/15/gay-marriage-arrives-in-the-south-where-the-public-is-less-enthused/


    Man I am so glad that there are plenty of studies. So many that in fact you weren't bothered to link a single one. Curious if those same studies also account for european immigrants which you feel makes a difference. Care to expand on why?
    How do you define a tipping point? France Sweden and Britain all have social unrest and social conflict due to their large immigrant populations. Thats a fact, what hasnt been defined, is at what point the lack of social cohesion becomes an issue. Its will, thats inevitable, what hasnt been studied is a at what percentage does it become a problem.

    If we keep ploughing on with our current policies its laughable to think that we wont have the same problem every other nation has had. Is Ireland somehow immune to Islamic terrorism?


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    #730
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    It was the latter then. Good to know.

    Large immigrant populations=social unrest. racism, violent crime etc etc, That a given.
    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=social+instability+immigration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW9dGSl9TJAhVEjQ8KHQXoCD0QgQMIHTAA

    I havent come across a study that put a percentage point on it, but it exists, we havent hit that point, but we will, Ireland and its people are not exceptions to demographic trends


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    #731
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    How do you define a tipping point? France Sweden and Britain all have social unrest and social conflict due to their large immigrant populations. Thats a fact, what hasnt been defined, is at what point the lack of social cohesion becomes an issue. Its will, thats inevitable, what hasnt been studied is a at what percentage does it become a problem.

    If we keep ploughing on with our current policies its laughable to think that we wont have the same problem every other nation has had. Is Ireland somehow immune to Islamic terrorism?

    We are not immune. Nor will blocking the borders protect us. I will say I am not in favour of open borders. Restrictions are needed as well as plans to ensure a community can deal with the influx. However there are plenty of places with high crime not related to race (see English football fans a few decades ago, Limerick and Dublin gangs, various IRA groups laundering diesel etc.)

    Also in the link in your following post I didn'T see anything to back up your claims.


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    #732
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    The Gulf states, Israel all close their cborders and screen who gets into their countries on health, age etc and yes, religious grounds, yet when a European or nation of european heritage does it everyone loses their minds.

    And what could we possibly learn from that shower that we haven't spent the last few hundred years trying to forget?


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    #733
    MonkeyTennis
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭MonkeyTennis


    BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI


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    #734
    leavingirl
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭leavingirl


    MonkeyTennis wrote: »
    BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI

    Too late. The disinformation has been out there long enough.


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    #735
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    MonkeyTennis wrote: »
    BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI
    San Bernardino shooting: Attackers did not express support for Isis on social media and were not part of terror cell
    Reports wrongly claimed Tashfeen Malik, who killed 14 people with her husband, pledged allegiance to Isis on Facebook

    Where did everyone get that information from the in first place. The media need to do some serious fact checking as that claims has been around for a while now.


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    #736
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Large immigrant populations=social unrest. racism, violent crime etc etc, That a given.
    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=social+instability+immigration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW9dGSl9TJAhVEjQ8KHQXoCD0QgQMIHTAA
    50% of Toronto were born outside of Canada. It really is hell on Earth over here, so bad it is one of the safer bets to be on any 'best cities to live in' along with Vancouver who apparently are 45% foreign born.


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    #737
    miss tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭miss tickle


    wes wrote: »
    Where did everyone get that information from the in first place. The media need to do some serious fact checking as that claims has been around for a while now.

    In fairness, the fbi's use of language when addressing the issue would suggest they were quite happy for the legend to go mainstream.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-shooting-isis-idUSKBN0TN1SR20151205,


    Asked about a reported Facebook post by Malik on the day of the attack pledging loyalty to Islamic State, Bowdich said, "I know it was in a general timeline where that post was made, and yes, there was a pledge of allegiance."


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    #738
    FISMA.
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭FISMA.


    Whosthis wrote: »
    IIts at the stage now that I don't think gun controls will be of any use in the US.

    Controls? Actually, she passed
    (1) Homeland Security - American law enforcement and national security database check
    (2) State Department - visa application/fingerprint check
    (3) Green card, after marriage, another round of criminal & security checks
    (4) Meeting in Pakistan with consular
    (5) Immigration officer in US. At the time of green card application.

    What good are controls when gov't is incompetent or complacent?

    Mrs Scumbag Terrorist, prior to her marriage, expressed, online in public ,social media: support of ISIS, jihad, and martyrdom.

    A simple google search could have prevented such an attack.

    Unfortunately, the Obama Administration had a policy that prevented immigration officials from reviewing publicly available social media postings at that time.

    Plenty of controls. No will.


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    #739
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    FISMA. wrote: »
    Mrs Scumbag Terrorist, prior to her marriage, expressed, online in public ,social media: support of ISIS, jihad, and martyrdom.

    Did you just ignore the earlier link showing that was completely untrue:
    San Bernardino shooting: Attackers did not express support for Isis on social media and were not part of terror cell
    Reports wrongly claimed Tashfeen Malik, who killed 14 people with her husband, pledged allegiance to Isis on Facebook

    So a simple Google search would not have prevented anything.


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    #740
    Wurzelbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Wurzelbert


    MonkeyTennis wrote: »
    BREAKING: San Bernardino shooters did not post support for jihad on social media: FBI

    erm, what difference does it make? social media or not, the important fact is that they were islamists and that’s what made them do it…


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    #741
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Wurzelbert wrote: »
    erm, what difference does it make? social media or not, the important fact is that they were islamists and that’s what made them do it…

    Is it? Maybe they were just like your run of the mill American mass shooters and so we can now ignore the issue once we say or thoughts and prayers are with the victims.


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    #742
    Wurzelbert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Wurzelbert


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Is it? Maybe they were just like your run of the mill American mass shooters and so we can now ignore the issue once we say or thoughts and prayers are with the victims.

    it seems they did have dreams of “jihad and martyrdom”, according to that article somebody posted earlier…


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    #743
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,867 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Wurzelbert wrote: »
    it seems they did have dreams of “jihad and martyrdom”, according to that article somebody posted earlier…

    Huh. Missed that line earlier as I accidentally skipped the paragraph due to its position. Fair enough guess this is a mass shooting that something should be done about.


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    #744
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Wurzelbert wrote: »
    it seems they did have dreams of “jihad and martyrdom”, according to that article somebody posted earlier…

    They guy in California burned alive by the cops had dreams of revenge. The kid in California had dreams of vengence against the people that didn't accept him. The Colorado shooter had dreams of being a warrior for the babies....

    Not that you are stating otherwise or anything but there's a bunch of different catalysts but the common denominator is America.


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