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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread V

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12357…333

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    #122
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Earls out then perhaps? Not training isn't a good sign.

    They said he's very sore after France game, took quite the battering apparently. Hurt his arm at some point during the game and was in pain with it, was iced when he came off.


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    #123
    padser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yeah but he didn't say "I disagree" he said the people criticising Payne didn't understand the game. That's a big claim to make when you're talking about an ex-international head coach and ex-professional players. Entirely volunteered as well, seems like a prepared comment to me.

    Absolutely, I definitely agree it was pre prepared and that he had a clear message he wanted to get across.

    I just find it strange (and this commennt is really broad, not confined to this incident, and not directed in particular at you ibf as it's very prevalent) that people seem to constantly take Joes public comments at face value rather than assume (as I do) that he is very media savy and uses his position to drive discussions in a certain way and indeed release messsges he wants discussed.

    As an example of a recent media discussion, did anyone notice in the lead up to the French game that lots of people suddenly started talking about this idea that when Owen refs big matches they are right affairs, the implication being he favours the losing teamy to even it up??? I've never heard it before and it was suddenly everywhere. Where did that start?

    Back OT Joe is simply not a neutral commentator when it comes to discussing punditry on irish rugby. There are people here suggesting Williams might not be neutral because of his time at ulster, but compared to Joe he is very independent. Joe is a coach attacking a pundit who critiqued one of his players. rather than talk up the player, Joe decided to trash the guy who made the criticism.


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    #124
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    padser wrote: »
    As an example of a recent media discussion, did anyone notice in the lead up to the French game that lots of people suddenly started talking about this idea that when Owen refs big matches they are right affairs, the implication being he favours the losing teamy to even it up??? I've never heard it before and it was suddenly everywhere. Where did that start?

    I heard Gerry Thornley at this a few weeks back and couldn't figure out what he meant so I asked in here and apparently there's a ridiculous tin foil hat theory that Owens favours the losing side to make matches closer. My opinion, and that of most other sane people, is that, logically speaking, big matches between two top teams should be evenly matched close affairs and it has nothing to do with who is reffing them.


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    #125
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    padser wrote: »
    Absolutely, I definitely agree it was pre prepared and that he had a clear message he wanted to get across.

    I just find it strange (and this commennt is really broad, not confined to this incident, and not directed in particular at you ibf as it's very prevalent) that people seem to constantly take Joes public comments at face value rather than assume (as I do) that he is very media savy and uses his position to drive discussions in a certain way and indeed release messsges he wants discussed.

    As an example of a recent media discussion, did anyone notice in the lead up to the French game that lots of people suddenly started talking about this idea that when Owen refs big matches they are right affairs, the implication being he favours the losing teamy to even it up??? I've never heard it before and it was suddenly everywhere. Where did that start?

    Back OT Joe is simply not a neutral commentator when it comes to discussing punditry on irish rugby. There are people here suggesting Williams might not be neutral because of his time at ulster, but compared to Joe he is very independent. Joe is a coach attacking a pundit who critiqued one of his players. rather than talk up the player, Joe decided to trash the guy who made the criticism.

    Did you hear what Joe actually said? Because most of the comments he made on the matter were about what Payne brings to the team.

    Also I only heard that "Owens favours the losing team" thing once and it was almost universally rubbished at the time. Maybe it was elsewhere online, but here it certainly wasn't that prevalent.

    Joe is media savy and knows exactly how to balance his statements to get his point across in the best possible way. We've seen it many times before. However he made a very real point of saying what he did. He wasn't asked about it, he didn't need to make the comments he made and he certainly didn't need to be as assertive about it. It was a point he wanted to make and get out there.

    The point you made ("But I don't think it necessarily means it's what he privately thinks.") to me makes almost no sense. If Joe didn't believe what he said about the critics then why say it? And if he didn't believe what he said about Payne then why was he always selecting him? And if he didn't believe any of it why would he bother making a point of coming out with the comments at all given that he wasn't asked?


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    #126
    Flipper22
    Registered Users Posts: 811 ✭✭✭Flipper22


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    They said he's very sore after France game, took quite the battering apparently. Hurt his arm at some point during the game and was in pain with it, was iced when he came off.

    It was when he made the tackle just before half time that allowed Henshaw win the penalty.


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    #127
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭Christy42


    noway12345 wrote: »
    It shows that he's not as big a loss as some make out and maybe our new centre partnership is better! I'd still have Fitzgerald at 12 and Henshaw at 13 though.

    Our locks got on great at the weekend too. POC totally should have been dropped!

    Terrible logic, please stop beating that dead horse. Can we have another pointless Zebo conversation instead?


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    #128
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Our locks got on great at the weekend too. POC totally should have been dropped!

    Terrible logic, please stop beating that dead horse. Can we have another pointless Zebo conversation instead?

    Look, a few people have been proven wrong about Payne. That's all. We move on.


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    #129
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Look, a few people have been proven wrong about Payne. That's all. We move on.

    Good of you to admit that you were wrong anyway ;)


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    #130
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Good of you to admit that you were wrong anyway ;)

    :D I hope you saw Henshaws clean line break on Sunday, the Irish team weren't supposed to that according to some people!


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    #131
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    noway12345 wrote: »
    :D I hope you saw Henshaws clean line break on Sunday, the Irish team weren't supposed to that according to some people!

    Let's be having the quotes so.


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    #132
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    noway12345 wrote: »
    :D I hope you saw Henshaws clean line break on Sunday, the Irish team weren't supposed to that according to some people!

    The idea that people think the Irish team isn't supposed to line break is an invention - what is true is that some people think players are expected to ensure that when they make one, they look for support, and that they don't get isolated in an open field. This is what Henshaw did on Sunday, and imo that was far more impressive than the break itself. It's similar to what Rob Kearney has talked before about why he runs towards traffic after catching a long kick, which is why some of us think it.


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    #133
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    rrpc wrote: »
    Let's be having the quotes so.

    Look them up yourself bro. The word was that Payne was doing his job by NOT making breaks. Henshaw is our best 13 and I think Sundays match showed us some of the reasons why.


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    #134
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Look them up yourself bro. The word was that Payne was doing his job by NOT making breaks. Henshaw is our best 13 and I think Sundays match showed us some of the reasons why.

    If you're so sure somebody said that then you'll have no problem reproducing the quotes


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    #135
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    MJohnston wrote: »
    The idea that people think the Irish team isn't supposed to line break is an invention - what is true is that players are expected to ensure that when they make one, they look for support, and that they don't get isolated in an open field. This is what Henshaw did on Sunday, and imo that was far more impressive than the break itself. It's similar to what Rob Kearney has talked before about why he runs towards traffic after catching a long kick.

    That's like all teams. That wasn't what was being said when Payne was being defended. His lack of line breaks or attacking danger wasn't seen as a weakness. Others like me thought other wise and I think Sunday showed why.


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    #136
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Look them up yourself bro. The word was that Payne was doing his job by NOT making breaks. Henshaw is our best 13 and I think Sundays match showed us some of the reasons why.

    (a) Not your bro, not even close.
    (b) You make the statements, so you back them up. I'm not researching your posts for you.


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    #137
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Look them up yourself bro. The word was that Payne was doing his job by NOT making breaks. Henshaw is our best 13 and I think Sundays match showed us some of the reasons why.

    I think you've a serious lack of comprehension skills if you think that's what people were saying.


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    #138
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Synode wrote: »
    If you're so sure somebody said that then you'll have no problem reproducing the quotes

    You think I'm going to go back searching through threads for you? :D


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    #139
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    noway12345 wrote: »
    That's like all teams. That wasn't what was being said when Payne was being defended. His lack of line breaks or attacking danger wasn't seen as a weakness. Others like me thought other wise and I think Sunday showed why.

    See here's the issue: "wasn't seen as a weakness [for 13]" is very, very different to "the Irish team weren't supposed to [do] that".

    But regardless of that, why are you comparing Henshaw to Payne?


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    #140
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    rrpc wrote: »
    (a) Not your bro, not even close.
    (b) You make the statements, so you back them up. I'm not researching your posts for you.

    (a) Lucky me.
    (b) I'm not doing your research for you.


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    #141
    Redgirl82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Redgirl82


    MJohnston wrote: »
    See here's the issue: "wasn't seen as a weakness" is very, very different to "the Irish team weren't supposed to [do] that".

    But regardless of that, why are you comparing Henshaw to Payne?

    He/she has been doing it for weeks here and filling thread after thread, I dont think they even know what there point is. They heard someone on TV say Payne was bad and that was as much as they needed.....


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    #142
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I think you've a serious lack of comprehension skills if you think that's what people were saying.

    Look it up son.


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    #143
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    padser wrote: »
    Absolutely, I definitely agree it was pre prepared and that he had a clear message he wanted to get across.

    I just find it strange (and this commennt is really broad, not confined to this incident, and not directed in particular at you ibf as it's very prevalent) that people seem to constantly take Joes public comments at face value rather than assume (as I do) that he is very media savy and uses his position to drive discussions in a certain way and indeed release messsges he wants discussed.

    As an example of a recent media discussion, did anyone notice in the lead up to the French game that lots of people suddenly started talking about this idea that when Owen refs big matches they are right affairs, the implication being he favours the losing teamy to even it up??? I've never heard it before and it was suddenly everywhere. Where did that start?

    Back OT Joe is simply not a neutral commentator when it comes to discussing punditry on irish rugby. There are people here suggesting Williams might not be neutral because of his time at ulster, but compared to Joe he is very independent. Joe is a coach attacking a pundit who critiqued one of his players. rather than talk up the player, Joe decided to trash the guy who made the criticism.

    That bolded bit is just not true. In the context of making a point about how valuable Payne was to the team & and how we play, and how pleased he was with Payne, he made a general reference to some media analysts suggesting he wasn't playing well or doing a decent job or whatever. So he defended his player. It was not directed at anyone in particular. It could have been directed at any number of online / television / newspaper people (not to mention boardsies), many of whom were questioning how well our midfield was working, and suggesting Earls should be brought in.


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    #144
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    MJohnston wrote: »
    See here's the issue: "wasn't seen as a weakness [for 13]" is very, very different to "the Irish team weren't supposed to [do] that".

    But regardless of that, why are you comparing Henshaw to Payne?

    That's what some people said. Our 13 wasn't meant to make breaks, they were criticising Cave for doing so!

    Because Henshaw is a better 13 to Payne. No big deal.


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    #145
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Redgirl82 wrote: »
    He/she has been doing it for weeks here and filling thread after thread, I dont think they even know what there point is. They heard someone on TV say Payne was bad and that was as much as they needed.....

    I've said Payne is good! But not in attack, I've said Henshaw should be our 13, Sunday showed why.


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    #146
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Look it up son.

    I've had enough of this. If you're going to make throw away and incorrect comments then be prepared to back it up. Otherwise it's just trolling.


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    #147
    BoardsMember
    Registered Users Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    noway12345 wrote: »
    I've said Payne is good! But not in attack, I've said Henshaw should be our 13, Sunday showed why.

    When he played, eh, 12, right?


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    #148
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    noway12345 wrote: »
    I've said Payne is good! But not in attack, I've said Henshaw should be our 13, Sunday showed why.

    This is extremely puzzling, as I could have sworn Henshaw was playing 12 on Sunday...


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    #149
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    noway12345 wrote: »
    (a) Lucky me.
    (b) I'm not doing your research for you.

    So basically you're just making it up.


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    #150
    subfreq
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭subfreq


    Sorry for the basic question but I totally missed this week who replaced Payne in the squad. Does anyone know?


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    #151
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    noway12345 wrote: »
    You think I'm going to go back searching through threads for you? :D

    Unless you can back up your statement that people were saying it, I think it's safe for us to take it that nobody in fact said it


This discussion has been closed.
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