Gender fluid?

The King of Moo

Special Circumstances wrote: »

What would be the mtbg, mean time between genderdecisions? And the standard deviation, if I can use typical mathematical phrases without offending anyone?

I mean, to be fair - if it is acceptable to transition without being confined to one or the other, who are you to put a time restriction on it or force people to okay it with their employers first? Risky territory that.

Yeah anyway, is your username a reference to Special Circumstances from Iain M. Banks' Culture novels? If so, I don't know why you'd want to read about a hedonistic civilisation where people change gender at will, based on Banks' conception of utopia.

RollieFingers

For the posters saying everyone has the right to say whatever they want, make particular comments about certain subjects and that people shouldn't go on the internet if they are easily offended, etc, etc.

Going by their logic that means they have the right to be racist, sexist and lots of other stuff that angry people like to give out about, and people just have to deal with it? :rolleyes:

Trans-bashing seems to be "in" at the minute, I know it's a difficult thing for people to understand, I just don't get all the hate!

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

What would be the mtbg, mean time between genderdecisions? And the standard deviation, if I can use typical mathematical phrases without offending anyone?

I mean, to be fair - if it is acceptable to transition without being confined to one or the other, who are you to put a time restriction on it or force people to okay it with their employers first? Risky territory that.

We need a standard like OBD-II, with parameters like STGT (short-term gender trim) and Gs (gender sensor) voltage fluctuations available to give a hand with this one. The standardised location of the diagnostic plug is left as an exercise for the gentle reader.

Special Circumstances

The King of Moo wrote: »

Yeah anyway, is your username a reference to Special Circumstances from Iain M. Banks' Culture novels? If so, I don't know why you'd want to read about a hedonistic civilisation where people change gender at will, based on Banks' conception of utopia.

I don't believe the Culture have quotas. Or ban trans race or species(awkward even with fictional technology tbf).

Boards believes in these because PC.

Which is more logical?

I have been told I am trolling for hypothesising velociraptor as a gender choice but maybe I'm just ahead of my time. I think iain banks took a very clever extrapolation of many things, but we are currently a long way off the dust settling on recent philosophical developments in gender / sex.

Let's face it, you're the one suggesting reasonable time frames and consultation with employers.

I'm more anti illogical and contradictory PC rules than being anti anything else. In my own mind at least. For today.

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

We need a standard like OBD-II, with parameters like STGT (short-term gender trim) and Gs (gender sensor) voltage fluctuations available to give a hand with this one. The standardised location of the diagnostic plug is left as an exercise for the gentle reader.

What would the gender of the socket/plug be so as to avoid incompatibility or offence?

Can you even use terms like socket and plug/jack without offending people?

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

What would the gender of the socket/plug be so as to avoid incompatibility or offence?

Can you even use terms like socket and plug/jack without offending people?

I hear that. Also, what is the interval for changing the Genderfluid? 100,000 "shifts"??

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

I hear that. Also, what is the interval for changing the Genderfluid? 100,000 "shifts"??

Gearist !!
The cvt lobby refuse to acknowledge your antiquated notions of gearing. How dare you.

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Gearist !!
The cvt lobby refuse to acknowledge your antiquated notions of gearing. How dare you.

It gets worse. According to Honda the dual-clutch automated manual gang have just come out identifying as Hermaphrodite.

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

It gets worse. According to Honda the dual-clutch automated manual gang have just come out identifying as Hermaphrodite.

Will gender fluid be interchangeable with AdBlue for future European regulations, or are the urea levels just not comparable?

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Will gender fluid be interchangeable with AdBlue for future European regulations, or are the urea levels just not comparable?

I think the most urgent thing now is to do away with the archaic, patriarchal term "manual gearbox" and replace it with Cismission. CVTs, DCTs and other Alternative Lifestyle devices can continue to be referred to as Transmissions.

Lord Riverside

jimgoose wrote: »

I think the most urgent thing now is to do away with the archaic, patriarchal term "manual gearbox" and replace it with Cismission. CVTs, DCTs and other Alternative Lifestyle devices can continue to be referred to as Transmissions.

What kind of gender fluid do they take though ?

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

I think the most urgent thing now is to do away with the archaic, patriarchal term "manual gearbox" and replace it with Cismission. CVTs, DCTs and other Alternative Lifestyle devices can continue to be referred to as Transmissions.

I like it.

You did however force me to look up this cis word. I actually think most of the time that I'm fine with people making these identity choices (as long as there is a level playing field without illogical or contradictory rules) but being forced to ever refer to myself as cis might force me into a pitchfork wielding mob.

jimgoose

Lord Riverside wrote: »

What kind of gender fluid do they take though ?

Fully synthetic with plenty of additives, I should imagine.

hatrickpatrick

pmasterson95 wrote: »

as it protects the delicate non straight lot happy.

That's not entirely fair - I know a lot of people in that scene who find the whole PC thing a menace. If you really look into it, you'll discover that words like cishet etc are used far less by people actually experiencing gender identity or sexuality confusion, than by people who presume to speak for them and get angry on their behalf. And it pisses them off because most of them don't actually want any animosity at all between their community and the straight / non-trans community. Cis as a label is used almost exclusively in a pejorative manner along with 'privilege' (to say, effectively, "what you're saying, regardless of what it is, is automatically null and irrelevant because of your demographic") and people who are actually part of the gender identity / gay rights movement and the LGBT scene find it incredibly tiresome that they're automatically presumed to share that PC mindset. Well those I know personally anyway. They don't want the hostility which the PC mob (who by and large aren't even part of that scene themselves) is trying to force upon them.

NachoBusiness

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Is that your way of telling us that you like wearing fur lined sheepskin jackets?

Very disappointed this post didn't get more thanks. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

suicide_circus

The King of Moo wrote: »

"They," I'd imagine, or "he" or "she" if that particular person has a preference and has made you aware of it.

"Let me introduce my good friend Jonathan Rachel, they is a journalist"

Annasopra

fartingforfun wrote: »

More PC double standards, why should you care that most straight people think this type of stuff is weird?
The vast majority of straight people have there stomach turn when they see two men kiss, nasty stuff, but you know what we just look away and let them get on with it.
The PC crowd demand that straight people see this as normal, it is to them, and i wish them well, but it will never be seen as normal to straight people, it will alway be weird.
So go live your life and be happy, but don't tell the rest of use we are in the wrong just because we don't dabble in homosexual relationships.
Online you get to read what people really think, in real life we put on a good front so not to upset people, but i guarantee straight people are speaking with a forked tongue with regards this issue, they tell you what you want to hear to your face so as not to offend, but when you are not there that say the opposite.

Nah the vast majority of cis straight people are not bigots. It's really a minority.

terryduff12

If a woman is fluid as in feeling like a man will they be able to on a hot summers day take the top off walk around a city,town and not be breaking any laws.

jimgoose

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nah the vast majority of cis straight people are not bigots. It's really a minority.

Instead of the incredibly irritating "Check your privilege!" as uttered by incredibly irritating Gender Studies types, can we have "Check your cismission fluid, dipstick!"?

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

Instead of the incredibly irritating "Check your privilege!" as uttered by incredibly irritating Gender Studies types, can we have "Check your cismission fluid, dipstick!"?

It could render your pubic liability insurance void if you don't!

Kev W

terryduff12 wrote: »

If a woman is fluid as in feeling like a man will they be able to on a hot summers day take the top off walk around a city,town and not be breaking any laws.

No, because that's not how laws work. They're still biologically female and so the "offending items" would be on display in contravention of the law.

If I feel like I deserve a 4k telly I'm still breaking the law if I take one from someone's house.

Boring username

The King of Moo wrote: »

To those suggesting people should just avoid the internet if they're abused:

Would you say the same to someone who goes to the same pub regularly, until a new bunch of people show up and start shouting abuse at them every time they go there?

Ever had a traveller wedding in your local? That should answer your question. It would be lovely to make a stand against the bullies like in all those lovely Disney movies, but being threatened with a broken bottle to your face is the reality of questioning these bullies. And those were not empty threats, I can assure you. Pick your battles carefully, because you can't win 'em all. Making a stand on abuse isn't going to count for much when you've got a shredded eye ball socket.

The same happens with urban gentrification-unpleasant individuals move into an area, and over a few years the place goes from a nice neighbourhood to a crime infested dump. People just relocate to a safer location, it's been the pattern of human migration for thousands of years. The Syrian refugee crisis would be a perfect example of this.

Should someone being bullied in the workplace just quit and look for another job?

Who is being bullied here? There are multiple avenues available for anyone claiming they are being bullied at work, and fairly rigid guidelines on what can and can't be said. Some of which stray into comical territory, but that's another matter.

The public have a right to question an absurd new double gender identity that seems to have been dreamed up on tumblr. Did this concept of gender fluid even exist 24 hours ago? Naturally the public are curious, and skeptical, and people pushing the idea should be prepared to defend their view robustly.
Asking for a free pass just isn't going to cut it.

The onus should always be on the d*ckheads to stop being d*ckheads.
Don't blame people for being upset when arschlochs deliberately say upsetting things to them

.

In a perfect world, yes. But this ain't a perfect world. A woman should have a right to walk down Tahrir square in Egypt unmolested. But seeing as that is going to put them in acute danger, it's best to avoid the place altogether. Not a perfect solution, but dickheads aren't going to change because of some cuddly notions about equality and fair treatment.
However, I agree that people will get upset when others deliberately say upsetting things, but even then there is a massive debate on what constitutes upsetting.

And as we both know, there are plenty of people who are looking to shut down genuine debate by claiming offence. So that's worth bearing in mind too. It's a very effective tool, and is something that needs to be challenged and confronted at every turn. It's essentially a fascist tool, ironically used by the left.

And to pre-empt any "it's not real abuse If it's online" comments:

Why? It's still people communicating their belief that they find the entire essence of another person's being abhorrent.
I don't see why the method of communication matters.

Boards is quick to ban what it terms abuse, and most websites now have a report button. As for children being bullied on the internet, there are safeguards like netnanny that can be used to reduce (but not eliminate) online abuse. Or we could just hand over regulation to Fidelma Doofus Eames when it comes to cyberbullying.... :eek:

Anyway, everyone gets abuse on the internet. Everyone. Including me and you. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been racially abused and called a drunken Paddy. It goes with the territory unfortunately.

Just like real life-if you've ever played a team sport you'll get abuse. Just suck it up and see it for what it is-an attempt to troll you. Some people are good are letting it wash over, others are very sensitive. Them's the breaks, and what cannot be cured must be endured.

And for the hilarious people saying they identify as a left-handed tin opener or Afghan goatherd:
Gender is such a fundamental concept and with such overlap that the idea of degrees of gender fluidity, like a spectrum of sexuality, seems logical to me.
It's a world apart from arbitrarily deciding to identify as something entirely unrelated to your prior physical, mental or emotional experience.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who are you to tell people what the can and can't identify with? You're trying to move the goalposts now. Either we let people identify with whatever we want, or we stick with the natural traits of male or female. It's people like you who have opened pandoras box here and encouraged gender and identity fluidity, so no complaining now that it's going outside your expected paradigms.

Just live and let live you daft f*ckers.

Hey-that's OFFENSIVE. ™ Please report for your mandatory diversity and tolerance training.

Anyway, nobody has suggested otherwise. The world will keep spinning, the trains will keep rolling. It's just that the public are rightfully calling out a daft concept, and no amount of shouting and comically crying 'hate speech light' is going to stop that.

It's interesting that the media reported this as widespread support, considering they could only find 5 randomers on twitter who expressed their positivity. A quick glance at the comments section reveals the truth-bewilderment, amusement, and confusion.

http://www.thejournal.ie/jonathan-clynch-gender-fluid-2328089-Sep2015/

http://www.independent.ie/life/its-time-to-live-and-let-live-in-this-brave-new-world-of-ours-31522538.html


Look, it's nice that someone has decided that they are both sexes simultaneously, and if that makes them feel good then off they pop. Just don't expect us all to swallow this narrative without question. I get the impression that some of our more progressive minds are willing to champion any cause, no matter how absurd or batsh1t crazy, just so they can stick it to the traditional conservative Irish public. There's a troubling fanaticism at the root of this.

As Links1234 exclaimed earlier, their first inclination was to shout 'one of us! One of us!' It's this clannish mentality that needs to be examined-one of what, exactly? It seems the LGBT community are willing to accept anything that isn't perceived as normal, no matter how ridiculous or tedious the claim, just so they can claim brownie points on the social media tolerance championship table. Next week, it'll be some new fad.

As someone has already noted, Rachel Dolezal is a white woman who self identified as black, and was rightfully ridiculed for it. It's only fair that we should be allowed to challenged the RTE person (see, now I don't even know what term to use) on their seemingly made up beliefs.

Serious question-if I decide over the coming weeks that I self identify as a paraplegic, should I be entitled to legally change my status and claim a free travel allowance and disability? I broke both my legs before, so I have a historical and cultural claim to be accepted as part of the community. Before you answer my question, I'll ask you to check you privilege as an able bodied non minority.

The_Mac

I just don't understand it. Like I can get transgender-ness like, but this is a whole different scale, like otherkin or something.

Kev W

The_Mac wrote: »

I just don't understand it. Like I can get transgender-ness like, but this is a whole different scale, like otherkin or something.

Nope, same scale.

Lord Riverside

Boring username wrote: »

Ever had a traveller wedding in your local? That should answer your question. It would be lovely to make a stand against the bullies like in all those lovely Disney movies, but being threatened with a broken bottle to your face is the reality of questioning these bullies. And those were not empty threats, I can assure you. Pick your battles carefully, because you can't win 'em all. Making a stand on abuse isn't going to count for much when you've got a shredded eye ball socket.

The same happens with urban gentrification-unpleasant individuals move into an area, and over a few years the place goes from a nice neighbourhood to a crime infested dump. People just relocate to a safer location, it's been the pattern of human migration for thousands of years. The Syrian refugee crisis would be a perfect example of this.




Who is being bullied here? There are multiple avenues available for anyone claiming they are being bullied at work, and fairly rigid guidelines on what can and can't be said. Some of which stray into comical territory, but that's another matter.

The public have a right to question an absurd new double gender identity that seems to have been dreamed up on tumblr. Did this concept of gender fluid even exist 24 hours ago? Naturally the public are curious, and skeptical, and people pushing the idea should be prepared to defend their view robustly.
Asking for a free pass just isn't going to cut it.


.

In a perfect world, yes. But this ain't a perfect world. A woman should have a right to walk down Tahrir square in Egypt unmolested. But seeing as that is going to put them in acute danger, it's best to avoid the place altogether. Not a perfect solution, but dickheads aren't going to change because of some cuddly notions about equality and fair treatment.
However, I agree that people will get upset when others deliberately say upsetting things, but even then there is a massive debate on what constitutes upsetting.

And as we both know, there are plenty of people who are looking to shut down genuine debate by claiming offence. So that's worth bearing in mind too. It's a very effective tool, and is something that needs to be challenged and confronted at every turn. It's essentially a fascist tool, ironically used by the left.




Boards is quick to ban what it terms abuse, and most websites now have a report button. As for children being bullied on the internet, there are safeguards like netnanny that can be used to reduce (but not eliminate) online abuse. Or we could just hand over regulation to Fidelma Doofus Eames when it comes to cyberbullying.... :eek:

Anyway, everyone gets abuse on the internet. Everyone. Including me and you. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been racially abused and called a drunken Paddy. It goes with the territory unfortunately.

Just like real life-if you've ever played a team sport you'll get abuse. Just suck it up and see it for what it is-an attempt to troll you. Some people are good are letting it wash over, others are very sensitive. Them's the breaks, and what cannot be cured must be endured.




Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who are you to tell people what the can and can't identify with? You're trying to move the goalposts now. Either we let people identify with whatever we want, or we stick with the natural traits of male or female. It's people like you who have opened pandoras box here and encouraged gender and identity fluidity, so no complaining now that it's going outside your expected paradigms.




Hey-that's OFFENSIVE. ™ Please report for your mandatory diversity and tolerance training.

Anyway, nobody has suggested otherwise. The world will keep spinning, the trains will keep rolling. It's just that the public are rightfully calling out a daft concept, and no amount of shouting and comically crying 'hate speech light' is going to stop that.

It's interesting that the media reported this as widespread support, considering they could only find 5 randomers on twitter who expressed their positivity. A quick glance at the comments section reveals the truth-bewilderment, amusement, and confusion.

Look, it's nice that someone has decided that they are both sexes simultaneously, and if that makes them feel good then off they pop. Just don't expect us all to swallow this narrative without question. I get the impression that some of our more progressive minds are willing to champion any cause, no matter how absurd or batsh1t crazy, just so they can stick it to the traditional conservative Irish public. There's a troubling fanaticism at the root of this.

As Links1234 exclaimed earlier, their first inclination was to shout 'one of us! One of us!' It's this clannish mentality that needs to be examined-one of what, exactly? It seems the LGBT community are willing to accept anything that isn't perceived as normal, no matter how ridiculous or tedious the claim, just so they can claim brownie points on the social media tolerance championship table. Next week, it'll be some new fad.

As someone has already noted, Rachel Dolezal is a white woman who self identified as black, and was rightfully ridiculed for it. It's only fair that we should be allowed to challenged the RTE person (see, now I don't even know what term to use) on their seemingly made up beliefs.

Serious question-if I decide over the coming weeks that I self identify as a paraplegic, should I be entitled to legally change my status and claim a free travel allowance and disability? I broke both my legs before, so I have a historical and cultural claim to be accepted as part of the community. Before you answer my question, I'll ask you to check you privilege as an able bodied non minority.

Well said, and said well.
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to write this among the dross here.

strelok

Kev W wrote: »

Nope, same scale.

how is it the same scale when transgender people have actual brain differences that can be pointed to?

the whole concept of genderfluid and gender identity being a social construct flies in the face of the science that was(is) used to destigmatise transgender people

Omackeral

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nah the vast majority of cis straight people are not bigots. It's really a minority.

Can ya not just say straight people though?

strelok

Omackeral wrote: »

Can ya not just say straight people though?

gay people can be 'cis' too, it just means anyone that isn't transgender.

--edit

nevermind, should have read more careful

Skullface McGubbin

It appears that Tumblr style identity politics is slowly bleeding into the mainstream. You'd be a fool to downplay it.

The_Mac

Skullface McGubbin wrote: »

It appears that Tumblr style identity politics is slowly bleeding into the mainstream. You'd be a fool to downplay it.

God help us all.